Hi. I did my introduction in the intro section but this is the proper forum for the issues I want to talk about with the hope that some other long time post ops will be able to give advice.

Now first there is a very down to earth physical/medical issue which is a bit private but what the heck. So I had surgery in 2000 (child of the millennium ) when I was about 23 or 24 and sadly it was really botched not going well^*. I developed trouble with the colon (there was some sort of connection or hole between vagina and colon) before even all bandages were off and had to go into surgery again twice, then have a stupid external colon thingy for months and then another surgery. In the end what was supposed to just be a regular "inversion" surgery was amended by a colon-patch. The advantage at first was that dilation was not as essential (and for the first months impossible anyways) as normally. Now that was over 10 years ago and as time goes by life went by and I ended up without a relationship and sex life to speak of for the last years, the job taking over most of my time and so on (which is not good, I know but that is another topic). To get to the point and my problem now - I neglected dilation (or rather any sort of sexual activity, even if it is a selfie) for years and now have trouble with it. At the moment I probably could not have regular intercourse and actually using even a rather smallish dildo causes some pain, I have to work against a lot of tightness and there seems to be a little bit of blood or red mucus developing as a result. Not good  . Does anyone have a good advice as to how to start fixing things. I was thinking about getting some dilators that you seem to talk about here (though I am not sure they are available in my country - everyone I know just used regular sex toy store equipment) and do what all the "new" post ops are doing - start small and then gradually increase - do you think this is a good idea and how does this work anyways - I never did that and never had to, so I lack that experience. Or do you have a different advice? I know there are devices to insert and inflate gradually - I had one of those directly post op. Or do I need to go to a doc to have a look at it? Maybe you already know that I am not too keen on visiting THAT doc again to have a look...

Edit: ^*) I corrected this - I must say that while of course the doc did a bad job there, I do not want to say that he does bad work in general. It was an exception and my bad luck. What I really hold against them is that they did not take the correct measures to prevent damage right away as the docs doing the post surgery treatments did not even know what happened or they did not know what they should have done (e.g. no food until the cut had healed, a week more hospital time and rest and a checkup). They probably did not the worst job in fixing the problem even if it was very unpleasant, but at least they managed to get to a final result that was very good even if the path to it was long and really got to my psyche, which is why I wrote a bit too emotionally about it here, I guess.

Other issues I have will be in another thread not to make things too complicated, but it is mostly about a strange long term increase in not passing (due to what? age? lack of attention?) and insecurity coming from that - so that is a more psychological topic with maybe some physical background but not as concrete as this topic above.

Sorryy for writing a lot. Its one of the odd things that happened to me after transitioning, I just write and talk a lot more than in the distant past and at times people are annoyed at that - I hope you are not.

Greetings
A.Q.

There are stent's/dilators that are available to treat vagimous which is a medical issue some genetic girls have which the dilators are very small and slowly go up, check for soul source on Google, but I still think you should have a visit to a doctor and obviously not the one who did the surgery, but being as long as its been you may need to have a correction surgery and what may seem to start all over. sorry to hear  you are having these issues as no-one should have to deal with botched/bad work of a surgeon hope this helps some

Thanks Calico. Yes these issues were really bad and tainted quite a bit that "best moment of my life" feeling that some seem to have post op. In fact I think all of this prevented me to really get excited about - well - having sex and all that. So this plays less of a role in my life than in others. But then I never was a person who was a lot into sex and the messed up surgery did not really serve to improve that.
Anyways, thanks for the tip, I will google this "vagimous" and see what comes up. Generally I think that probably just sticking to it even if it is painful for now and do this dilution more frequently (daily if possible) would be a good idea - I already have some regular "toy shop" equipment in various sizes that I can try, but I always have trouble because their sizes are jumping too much (e.g. there are not enough with a size in between small and medium). So for that such a specialized equipment may help. I am not sure about the doctors though. Most regular doctors will not be able to say anything anyways, the surgeon I dont want to visit again, really - and to go to one of the other surgeons who perform such surgeries... I am reluctant. It would mean to really go for transgroups again to get informed which is reliable, then that doc most certainly will make some stupid comments on the surgery that was not quite good, my lack of care in the past years and in the worst case try to "sell" me another surgery as an option, which I really am not keen on doing. I am not good with surgeries of any kind. I always loose nerves (literally - I get numb spots after each surgery I ever had and luckily in the one I was talking about these are very minimal and more or less went away later on), so I try to avoid surgeries. But I guess you are suggesting this because I spoke of some bleeding issues. It really is not a lot - just a drop or two I guess, but enough to have me desinfect all dilators well before and after use.

I would guess - and this is actually sort of a question - that regular post op care with dilators also produces some bleeding and pain, right? If so, this would not be that unusual and I could avoid visiting a doc. Sorry about that doctorphobia, but frankly my experiences with them are not the best when it comes to trans issues. They all seem to be weird old (or middle aged) men and creep me out - ok, that is a generalization, but I think the only female surgeon that did this kind of surgery in my country retired years ago and even female gynaekologists are rare (not to mention that they tend to be freaked out by doing an examination on a transperson - one of them kept telling me that I have to take care about vaginal viruses that can cause cancer - which obviously cannot be an issue for me - I am not sure she got that - she had a lot of muslim clients though, so maybe she had a different worldview or topics of medical interest)

So maybe more replies will come. Thanks already.
Greetings

(It's "vaginismus" - sorry, I'm not one of those jerks who usually corrects spelling, but for Google it counts!) I second the recommendation for Soul Source vaginismus dilators, though; they do also make a GRS set, but the ones intended for cis women are tiny and go up in very small increments.

I don't have bleeding and/or pain after dilation at a year post-op, and haven't since about six months. Sorry. But! The good news is that Brassard said it's usually possible to regain *width,* if not depth, by doing exactly as you describe : starting with narrow dilators and slowly increasing their width. Lost depth generally requires a new surgery, I understand, but lost width does NOT. I definitely had no trouble increasing width that way as a new post-op, either.

And since you've been a long time without dilating (I think?), the slight pain and blood probably still are normal; I did get that each time I first started going longer periods between dilations, for example. I'm afraid I don't know or understand enough about how they did your surgery to have any useful comments about that, though - I had standard penile inversion. Yours sounds like it was hellish, and you have my sympathy.

Thanks for the sympathies, yes indeed it was not the experience I was looking forward in the years before that. It was very emotional and caused probably some of the later problems of the mental kind I had, like uncertainty and distrust. The upside of the surgical procedure is however twofold. The intentional part of the surgery was at that time relativly new and they used I believe either laser or electrical surgical knifes (gee, sounds horrible). This meant however that the cuts they made to make room are scarred by the heat and thus do hardly grow together, this was the reason I did not have as much trouble with loosing depth and such even though I never did this dilution procedure. The downside of course was that if you slip with such a freaking electroknife, you can do harm that is hard to correct, which obviously happened . The correction was done with some part of the colon I believe, the advantage of this is a bit of lubrication and again more stability in terms of a lack of dilution. however I overstretched the possibilities it seems and thus the problems now.

What you said about the blood makes me confident that I will be fine. I believe that basically this is the same that happens during the first months of diluting after surgery and if you experienced that as well after having a pause, thats good then. I mean it is not good of course but it means that it is good in terms of this not being a special case in my case. Erm - I hope this was understandable (sorry for the bad foreign language english).

Interestingly and probably due to the type of procedure I had, depth always remained fairly constant, even up to now. It is not huge (I am not sure what the usual results of surgery are), but it remained quite stable throughout the past 13 years - dilution or not.

So I will look out for these dilutors for women with this vaginal condition and see if they are helping. I have to check what size the one I have now is and then go from there. I hope they are available outside the US.

Greetings
Anja

Yes, that made perfect sense. I never skipped dilations, to clarify, but we're told to reduce frequency as the months pass (from 4X a day to 3X to 2X and so on) and each time I dropped a session as the doctor's schedule commanded, I had a bit of tightness and soreness and occasional very slight bleeding for a day or two. If it's not a lot of blood - and blood mixing with lubricant can look like a lot more than it is - it probably isn't worth worrying about.

http://www.soulsourceenterprises.com/html/ordering_silicone.html

They do seem to sell internationally. But if that doesn't work, you want something labeled as for vaginismus.

Thanks for the link. Yes, I figured out that part on blood mixing with lube - thats why I think there is not actually much blood involved, its just a small bit, so hearing that others experienced that calms me a bit. The only thing I really dislike is to go for it the next day if there is still a bit of pain left from last time.
Wow. 2-4x a day for months, thats a lot of dilations. I did not have any of that, but I think I still would have preferred that over what I had .
By the way I checked for vaginal depth. I read that 5.5'' is more or less the average and last time I checked that was rather close to it even now, so I must say that is nice, I always was fearing to be a bit on the low side in that aspect. Hehe, this is cool, actually reading up stuff and talking bout it. Tried to stay away from all the trans stuff after surgery as I was so annoyed by that, but I guess without the feedback I kind of worried about some things without need

Quote from: anjaq on September 04, 2013, 03:25:15 PM

Wow. 2-4x a day for months, thats a lot of dilations. I did not have any of that, but I think I still would have preferred that over what I had .

. Hehe, this is cool, actually reading up stuff and talking bout it. Tried to stay away from all the trans stuff after surgery as I was so annoyed by that, but I guess without the feedback I kind of worried about some things without need

I am currently doing twice a day (when I have to work) one in the morning and one in the evening at an hour a piece, I usually start with the soulsource green for 10 minutes and than orange for remaining time, and when I don't work I try to throw in a 3rd as my doctor advised to do 3 sessions a day for the first year but in a pinch 2 @ 45 minutes to an hour is fine of course I didn't get the soulsource dilators I actually upgraded to them on the 3rd month post-op I am at almost 6 months post now, only 6 more to go and I can take it down to once or twice a week
I understand staying away and some who have srs tend to decide to just move away from it and go blend in, and I almost decided this as well but I felt that sometimes when there are issues no-one I know can really relate and beside not many people know in my life either so its nice to have others you can talk to about whatever and that they can relate,  and the other reason I stuck around is this board has gave me so much that I felt I could help if needed and contribute when needed 

That sounds like a lot of time spent with these dilations. Do you happen to know if there are any instructions on this out there? Pardon my lack of knowledge in that respect, but with the surgery I had this was not really needed so much and the surgeon was a bit pragmatic, saying that as long as I either have a partner and engage with him or her in bed regularly or get myself some vibrators for regular use, I should be fine and I think that was actually not wrong, though I guess for him "regular" meant something like every 2 days or at least every week, not every month

Regarding staying away - I sometimes have the urge to help some who are new to it because I was helped back when I needed it. There was not much happening in terms of internet forums at that time - basically I think it was Melanie Ann Phillips website and a couple of others, most of them not very interactive (it was the 90ies after all) and usenet groups. So my support was mainly at a real life self help group. They helped a lot, but it was also quite annoying at times. Everyone was complaining of course and most of the group meeting topics were about how to deal with wife and kids and job - I was in college and had no partner, marriage or kids, so that was a bit boring. Then they liked to talk about clothes and makeup and I was not much into that either. The worst however was that whenever I had some concerns about anything, I was sort of put off with the others, 95% of them were older than me, kept telling me that I should not complain because I supposedly were so lucky because of my physical body. Of course I did not feel that way back then. Looking back I guess they were not that wrong, having an average womens heigt, feet and hand size in the regular range, no hairs at arms or chest or such, rather good facial features, no adams apple... , but still I felt not understood plus I felt them being envious and they did not conceil that well. That was unpleasant at times and I somehow fear that if I would go back there and offer some help or advice, I might again get put aside that way by the newbies proclaiming that their problems are really problems that I cannot advise them on because I transitioned young and have all these properties that supposedly make it easy (meh, if only that was all that true). Besides I am of course totally out of the loop what current surgeons, procedures and legal issues are concerned. 13 years is a long time for surgeons to imporve, develop new techniques and all that, though as I understand it from here the "classical" inversion surgery still is the most common (I would assume however that plastic surgery has improved in terms of making the result visually more complete - in that department I am not so happy, in part because I did not go for a plastic surgery after the mess that was the first surgery and the surgeon I was with did not offer it anyways).

It definitely is a lot of time spending dilating during the day  I definitely could be doing other things for sure. there really is no set standard or set of instructions, every surgeon seems to have their own idea as to what one should do for dilation regimen, but the consensus is more time never hurts.

I feel you on the lack of support, when I transitioned I tried the local support groups, in fact when I went the first time they thought I was the sister, or daughter of who brought me, so they pretty much said you there! be quite you don't have any issues soo.. I don't go to support groups anymore.

This has been my dilation instructions. I think you could use a part of this to help?
first month At home,
you should dilate 4 times per day with, #1, #2 for 5, 15 minutes for one month.
Dilate 3 times per day with #1, #2, #3 for 5, 10, 15 minutes for next two months.
Dilate twice a day with #2, #3, #4, for 5, 10, 15 minutes for next 3 months
Dilate once a day with #3, #4, for 5, 15 minutes for next 6 months.
Slowly increase the interval of time between each dilation until you reach one dilation per week with #4, for 15 minutes for the rest of your life.
If you have difficulties with a bigger size dilator, wait before you are comfortable with this one before using a bigger size.  You can go back to a smaller size and increase the frequency for a few days.

Maybe this can help a little, I would say maybe startd doing as many a day then work your way up, i think you could cut the months by half?

Lots of luck i know dilations are no fun.

Izzy

edits these are the sizes of what i am using
Soul Source GRS dilators are available in four sizes:
1 1/8" diameter x 9" length (circumference 3.5")#1
1 1/4" diameter x 9" length (circumference 3.9")#2
1 3/8" diameter x 9" length (circumference 4.3")#3
1 1/2" diameter x 9" length (circumference 4.7")#4

calico - yes, that was really weird in these support groups. I was actually there the first time pre-anything and "officially" as a good friend of someone who went there in half-outed pre transition situation. I was so freaking scared of the whole thing and at the first visit being "one of them" freaked me out even more so that I struggled a bit longer but also I knew obviously that I am not alone so that was the best thing about these groups eventually - to see there are real people with the same issues and most of them have even worse issues. Did you have that issue also because of age or were you already a bit older (which probably causes even more of that effect). I hated that. And every time I was called out for not passing in public I felt like I had no one to tell, because the ones in the group did not take it serious. Of course I know yes that for me is was probably something that did happen now and then, especially when speaking (which still is an issue to a degree, sadly) and for some of them it was more a thing that happened all the time with some exceptions where it did not, so I did not want to bother them with my issues as I felt that theirs were greater, but still I lacked the support then for these own issues. I know it was a bit of an elitist though, but I felt at times I would like to have a sub-group for people who are "ahead" of those in the main group in terms of the passing and transition issue (I said it was an elitist though to put this in such a concept of progression, but hey I was young back then and did not know it was). Oh and then there was that group that was talking about not actually being transsexual but claimed that they were in some way intersexed just that their genetics were still male - one of them claimed to have rudimentary ovaries even. I think that was mostly nonsense, though of course I know there are many forms of intersex issues and I would not want to exclude that transpeople may even be part of this (especially the classical "female brain in male body" feeling). And of course that thought was in some way intriquing - that having many non-male features (like no hair in some parts) at a young but still clearly post-pubery age was an indicator of something physical going on in terms of gender. But I suspect that it is just statistics and I was simply lucky not to need an adams apple shave or hair removal at the arms and chest.

Gnaa - this was off topic, sorry.

Izzy gave some more on topic tipps, thank you a lot. I think this sounds like a very crowded schedule that I will not keep up with, but it is a hint on how it might work out. If I may ask - and while this sounds private, I also think that it is not as it is a general medical instruction from  surgeons - how does a dilation work. You insert the dilator and keep it in place? Or you move it? If so, should it be moved in one direction only or also a bit wobbly? I am sorry for this noob-ish question but as I said, my surgeon basically gave me nothing expect he asked if I have a friend that I can have a lot of sex with, which would be ok - and as I said no, he suggested doing a lot of masturbation with standard vibrators - whatever was fun. So that was a bit funny actually and in a way uplifting - no talk about pain and rigid schedules, but rather "have as much fun with your new private parts and they will be ok". I guess he was right until I stopped having so much fun in general and in sexual stuff in particular and then the reverse became true - eg.g. not having much fun with the sex thing lead to a declining condition of the parts involved. I dont blame my surgeon for this issue at all (I just blame him for the actual crap he and his assistents did). 

So, taking out my calculator, I tried to compare these sizes.to metric and from the circumference now I get that the vibrators I have at hand are close to a #1, a #3 and a #6 (yes I know its not on the list, but it is 5.5" circumference). I have some problems with the #1 if I did not use it in 2 weeks at the moment, no chance anymore to get the #3 working and looking at the #6 I dont know how the hell I ever managed that. Soo - I guess my present "strategy" would be to stick with the #1 and try to make it a daily routine and try to somehow get a #2 and use it as soon as it is possible with increasing fraction of the time until I can start right away with the #2 and then take a good look at the #3 and dare to use it. The #6 will go into the back of the drawer, I feel intimidated by it - I dont think I can muster 4x20 minutes a day presently, which would be the start of the regular regime. If 1x20 a day is not enough I may consider it, but lets not get too crazy after being on something like 1x20 every month or two which was as it was the last few years...

Now another question - what is the advantage of these dilators compared to vibrators - will they work better or cause less pain? Should I replace my present old #1 size vibrator with a non vibrating dilator and get a #2 and #3 of the same kind or is it not much difference and I could get a #2 size thingy at a store? As I understand it, they may be softer and thus more comfortable, is that right? I definitely would prefer something that is more comfortable and causes less pain if it has to be one or more than one times daily.

Also I found that "Soul Source" makes two kinds of them - one seems to be available in more sizes and lengths and are generally made for "vaginitis", the other are the 4 kinds mentioned here specifically for GRS. Which one would you recommend for me - I read above that I should look out for these vaginitis ones - why would these be better for me than the GRS ones ?

Thanks for all your good advice here. Nice to be able to talk about such issues openly.

Ok let me try my best at your questions. The schedule was for me from my start. Funny thing was first month my ..... was easier to accept then the second month. Things started to get tight. The schedule will give you a gage to use, if things work better with less and you get back width and depth then go larger.
You insert the dilator and keep it in place? Or you move it? What i do is insert and rotate it about a 1/8 to 1/4 turn each way a little. Not all the time maybe 3-4 times throught the time. I have the SRS set and they have a bend in them i think is there to help keep from getting stuck due to suction? With this the smaller sizes i used to slowly turn them all the way around but the larger size its not possible at this moment in time. The nurses gave us a tip saying that more is always better, and if you can get some real action in the process then all the better. They say sex equals one round of dilations.

what is the advantage of these dilators compared to vibrators
Not sure other then the nurses said to stay away from toys at first. I think and could be wrong is the fact they are tapered some. The tip is the same size as the size smaller and then goes up to gauge. Also they are hard, i mean hard solid plastic and smooth and also have the dots on the side to help manage depth by reference.
Which one would you recommend for me So i would say if you already have something you can use and get inside that i would work on the more is better. I think the hard is used to really stretch the skin with out giving, that way is the same from front to back.

I wish you luck, i have seen others who have had issues over the years and some got enough back to have a relationship, but also a few who went and had another surgery.

Izzy

Thanks Izzy. That helped me. I did not really get the thing about hardness though. Do you say that the dilators are hard plastic and have dots and that this is an advantage? The #1 size vibrator I have is hard plastic and basically not tapered, but the larger ones are having a silicone covering and are tapered, so from how I understand it the #1 size would be similar to the dilators because it is untapered and hard and the others are less suited? Or did I reverse that now and the dilator should NOT be hard and untapered?

I really hope I dont need surgery. I think I could not do it - not after the first time. :,( - If that would be needed, I could end up as a spinster... But given that I did not loose depth and that a #1 size still does fit, I am kind of hopeful. I fear a bit that I might actually have to follow the full schedule as described above if it really is that serious...

I think the fact they are hard and not like the sex toys that are coated and soft. I think this keeps things from giving in one place or another. It keeps things pushed out. Something softer will give in places more then other.  The gauge does help, it shows that the depth is reached each time it is use.

Being you said have not lost depth then that is a plus for sure. Most girls that need revisions is to get there depth back. As for the width i would say just keep adding as many times a day as you can. Add more sizes and work your way back up.

I think being you are post for many years that you should be able to get larger faster? LOL......

Izzy

Ok, so I got that right. These dilators are rahter hard compared to toys - interesting, didnt expect that. Yes - the depth is kinda fixed - I paid for that in blood, sweat, tears and - ->-bleeped-<- - as I described. Meaning the surgical procedures I underwent are the reason for that but they were not something that I would recommend.

Yep - many years post indeed. Such a long time, I am kind of amazed now that I think of it. Looking at your sig, Izzy, you seem also to be with this whole issue for quite a long time. Nice.

Yes i have been at this life path since 1999. Just after many set backs i made it to my GCS this year in April. Thru all these years i have always stayed updated on the latest and greatest of transgenders. Every year i fought to get my insurance company to stop the discrimination. Never worked but it did help me understand a lot more then maybe most. I also had a great therapist, she was well worth her weight in gold.

I never have all the answers, but i can see logic in many things.

Dilation is not a fun thing, it sure for me does not make me turned on or anything. But as a woman its just one of them high maintenance things we have to do to keep a heathy O.

Izzy

Quote from: anjaq on September 08, 2013, 07:05:46 PM
Thanks Izzy. That helped me. I did not really get the thing about hardness though. Do you say that the dilators are hard plastic and have dots and that this is an advantage?

The reason for dilators is because many toys have tapered tips that while easy to insert carry the risk of poking through the vaginal wall during initial recovery. And yes, they are hard plastic so they can be sanitized easy and so that it can be used to coax the vaginal into a "proper" size.

The dots are mostly to gauge progress in regaining any depth or to brag (since on soul source dilators first dot is 3.75 inches and every next dot is about 0.5 inch apart).

Ok, so if using toys because whatever (maybe shipping those dilators from the US is 50$ or such), one should go for the non tapered, plastic ones. So my trusty #1 size is already good, just need to get the other ones. I doubt I can actually "poke a hole" 13 years after surgery. I f-ing had that stupid hole at day 3 - without even doing anything at all except sleep, eat and watch TV (the eating part was the bad thing though). But whatever - that was the mess back then, now we are talking about now.
I always sanitize these "toys" by using alcohol spray, so that is the same then. So these dots are basically to chek if dept is maintained? I did not understand the part on bragging - you mean like people comparing depth and feel proud about having more? That sounds a bit stupid. I checked on the internet a bit and found that I am in the average range, a bit on the low side, but as long as it is not a problem because of really falling outside the practical range or shrinkage is noted, I would not really give much thought.

Izzy, that sounds like you had to work really hard for that. 1999 I was well on the way (started about 1998) in terms of transitioning, but surgery was already in 2000. I cannot really imagine how I would have lived and survived until now without that and stay sane. Guess I was a bit lucky but I have to thank the German health insurance system for that I guess. Great that you managed finally, though! Congrats!

Hmm - just found a #2 size toy in my box. It is not much tapered and it is made from plastic with a rubber covering, which still makes it quite rigid. The "feature" is that it can be inflated. Do you think that is a good idea or would it do more harm than good. I mean, basically it would in theory be a way to slide slowly up from #2 to #3 or so, but I am not sure that inflation is a good thing - I worry a bit about inflating too fast, though going from #2 directly to #3 is quite a fast big change as well.