Quote from: Heather on September 22, 2013, 02:25:34 PM
Well if someone tried to out you based on a pic you posted on a transgender support site you could ask them what are they doing lurking on a transgender support site? 

LOL... I feel the same way as Heather. I will post myself, but not until I'm further along... then if people (from work, say) find it... it will just explain a few things rather than be a shock to their system!

I'm also concerned because web photo searches and facial recognition searching is becoming a reality. I'm sure I wouldn't be found, but you never know..... Of course, the few (no-humans) pictures I have posted could out me too...

Quote from: Joules on September 22, 2013, 04:15:12 PM
I thought that bunny looked familiar....

I did steal the picture

Though... if and when I get my own apartment (and don't constantly go on travel) I plan to get a dwarf or mini (Holland) lop. I'm a dog person, but I would love a rabbit (they're supposed to be very dog like - especially the girl bunnies).

This is why I dont post images of me in this context. I considered that for a moment but really - when I had a TG blog in the times before it was really blogging - erm - well I had a geocities website with a lot of my transition stuff on it - it took ages to get that out of the internet again and nowadays probably it never goes away. Luckily I never used a real name nor was facial recognition working at that time. But I would hate it if facebook or something else comes up with some images linked to a trans-related URL when someone uploads a regular foto of me because facebook recognizes me on them both. No way. If there would be a way to post a picture that can only be seen by other members, that would be cool, but that is only for the paid subscribers I think.

Until you realize that you have always been female you will never have any sense that you are.

My knee jerk reaction was to say listen to your sister but upon thinking about it longer I think you should probably hold off.

If you could try presenting female some place where no one knows you then you might get a feel for whether you are ready or not.  But dealing with people who know you from before is unpredictable and people love to talk, and point.

Aside from dressing up for timeline photos. I presented as male at work and home up until the day I started my RLE. nothing wrong with it hun. Everyone Transitions diffrently. hell one of my friends went 4 years before even trying on girls cloths.

I agree absolutely that everyone should go at the speed and follow the steps that they feel comfortable with.

However I hate to tell you this, but ultimately it probably won't make all that much difference to the outcome - aside from your own comfort zone.

The way it works is this; unless you were lucky enough to transition before anyone outside your immediate family knew you, however well you actually do "pass," to use your terminology, someone will find out about you, and WILL then use that information to make sure that others comment negatively on your presentation or whatever – and irrespective of how good you actually DO look – those so commenting with negative intent, will rely on your own fear and insecurity to make you feel like you don't quite cut it...

The bottom line is you may actually look absolutely 100% right to someone who doesn't know you - but to anyone who has been "told" of course you won't – even if you actually do – because they "know" and so they will always contrive to convince themselves that they can see the signs of your origins, otherwise they might have to admit to themselves that men and women aren't really that different after all. (which personally as an intersex woman I am 100% convinced of and comfortable with – but which truth I find most people both cis and trans are rather uncomfortable with!)

The bottom line is however well you prepare – you are going to get some comments and some of them will not be nice. So one way or another you do just have to learn to deal with it, and ironically the better you deal with it, and the less it affects you, the less it will tend to happen. I don't give a ->-bleeped-<- whether someone thinks I'm male female or in between, and ironically I never get any questions...

Yes I did have the advantage of a childhood spent more less in my current gender – and yes my treatment was completed 3 decades ago, but actually thinking about it now I think it has far more to do with the fact the I care so little, that on the odd occasion when someone does mis-gender me I really don't even notice. (and of course if they did do it deliberately – the total lack of reaction rapidly deprives them of any certainty that their suspicions are right. So they soon stop because they aren't getting a confirming reaction from me – and everyone else is looking at them like they are the smelly nutter on the bus!)

I'm at medical school. I'm surrounded by doctors. If anyone is going to recognise someone intersex its them! (A few do know my background because it's a bit difficult to hide when we sometimes practice intimate exams on each other 😉 😀 ) and yet I get away with it – not because I look glam or fab or anything much ... but because I'm comfortable in my own skin, and I don't try to hide my differences.

On the contrary I positively own and indeed proudly utilize some of the cross gender attributes that nature has graciously blessed me with – like for example superior strength and size. Very useful if you want to portray yourself as a no nonsense adventurous fit female rugby player! So most of these well educated medical professionals don't see what is right in front of their eyes because nothing in my behaviour or their imagination leads them to look for that particular explanation for it. Instead they just see me as a robust sporty type of woman who is jolly useful in a crisis or a scrap.

Bottom line – however well you prepare you can't escape the initial reactions – but over time with the application of a bit of reverse psychology you can probably move to a place where people stop noticing.

I still present male at my place of work..  I am pre everything and my first and second outings in female clothing was to see my therapist.   I did go to a girls night out on friday and I had so much fun and cant wait to do it again.  The first place was a sports bar and grill.  The second place was a club.  Each place had a totally different crowd.  And it was such a confidence booster.  It felt good to actually be me. Everyone is different in their approach on transitioning.  I accepted myself as I am and once I start hrt I will already have my confidence.   Keep your head up and do what YOU feel is right.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on September 22, 2013, 05:31:21 PM

The bottom line is you may actually look absolutely 100% right to someone who doesn't know you - but to anyone who has been "told" of course you won't – even if you actually do – because they "know" and so they will always contrive to convince themselves that they can see the signs of your origins...

A real life problem my wife (MTF) experienced several times in the past with lovers who needed a second opinion from best friends, room-mates, etc. if they "can tell". Of course always after they were already told. The affect was to basically kick the legs out from the lover due to his own insecurities. Thus ending the relationship and starting a few weeks of ice-cream binging.

In my case, I slowly switched over everywhere - work, home, etc. - I let my hair grow for a year and a half before fulltime; practiced mannerisms and trained my voice constantly during that period (including at work!); by the time I started hormones I looked like Graduate Steve Jobs:
(Seriously - it was scary close)

Then I took eight months for hormones to work their magic, and at the end of it I just switched over. I can't say whether it was "100% girl on day one", but I think it was close.

I'm guessing that'd be the wrong way round for most of you - spend most of a year as male before doing anything - but it helped me get the surrounding bits in place (without anyone really noticing) before I made the switch. So all in all, thanks, take-your-time-therapist!  You probably saved my bacon!


Annnd I should probably say something for the folks at home.

So. You may be transitioning at an awkward point - a "We're not quite ready to pass all the time yet" point. But keep in mind, if you keep at them, the things that are missing will come. Hair will grow. Voices will improve. Before long you can make it - if not all the way to that magic 100% mark - then a lot closer than you fear you'll have to live with.

Quote from: Heather on September 22, 2013, 10:12:09 AM
Since I see there is a lot of talk about magic pills.  I thought I would add that there nothing in this world that ever going to just turn you from a man into a woman. Women start off as girls and grow up to become women. It's a process that takes many years and is not something you can hope to happen all on it's on. It does takes a lot of work and effort to achieve.
I really don't get the whole attitude that just taking a few pills is going to turn you into something that took cis women years to achieve. Being a women isn't about taking a few pills. It comes by putting yourself out there and trying to live as one. Sure you may not be all passable at first but really if your just going to continue living as a guy until you completely pass your going to waiting a very very long time. 

I whole heartedly have to disagree with this statement and any statement similar, where yes to be a PROPER as society sees fit girl, you do have to be and act in that particular way. But EVERYONE is different, my own sister for SO long refused to do ANYTHING girly.  Did that make her a boy? No, not at all. And even now, she hates doing overly girly things.  Women, girls, Men and boys all come with MANY varieties.  Make-up WILL make you feel better facially, should it be a requirement? Not necessarily, not really at all.  You be the woman or girl you think you should be, but don't let waiting for hormones stop you from starting it now.  I haven't and don't plan on changing how I am at all. I'm the same person, I haven't been living a total facade, I am how I want to be.  I'm just not presenting as I wish I would because I would personally like some more chest development. 

Girl does not equal girly, woman does not equal womanly.  Be how you want, just be yourself.

Edit* Not the entire post, but the particular one pertaining to girls growing up as women, assuming it's referring to make-up and shoe obsessions, female mannerisms and the like.  There are boyish women out there, don't let non-ideal female mannerisms stop you.

I keep reading over and over agin about "becoming a woman." I'm not becoming anything. I am a woman. Case closed. I guess I'm lucky in that I am naturally femme, act like a woman naturally (or so I've been told my whole life), coulda passed preHRT with laser alone, so maybe it is easier for me to see myself that way. but until recently I din't view myself as a woman until HRT; I just felt like one with no subjective expereince to relate it to. Now I have that.. The experience and being treated the way I am has really changed me. HRT will change you. In many ways it is magic I just think people don't know what magic is. In witch craft, I have been a witch since I was 13, magic is all about herbs. So in a way HRT is magic. But if you really want to expereince full womanhood you have to put yourself out there and there is no need to wait. Forget eveyone. Live for yourself. Plus, LTL, ditch the busnies casual clothes and dress andro. i don't know how you do it. i do it for work and the clothes are pretty femme, polka dots and some pink and purple shirts. And women's size 8 andro flats. Abd I cant stand it.

But sometimes I feel like the odd woman out on this forum. My expereince seems to get put down a lot because I have always been this way and did not discover it and that expereince is put down a lot. Heck, being femme and likeing men seems to get put down and liking looking femme is always called a stereotype by someone. Tangent sorry. I digress.

Quote from: anjaq on September 22, 2013, 02:21:17 PM
One thing about transitioning is that it is a huge experience. It is something that makes us strong. I dont think anyone who is post transition is not a very strong woman. That sadly does come at a price as the reason for that is that not only did we have all the pre-transition time in which we had to be strong not to break, but also we have the process of transition which always means risking being ridiculed or bullied and having to defend oneself in some way - ideally not with that gun but with some snappy words. I think it can hardly be avoided. If only because even if HRt is perfect and laser is done and all that, passing still will not be 100% in a day as with the magic pill as it is a learning process which as all learning happens by making mistakes. And so we make mistakes and learn from them and with that we learn how to "pass" and how to "become a woman". As i see it what we are at the beginning of transition are little girls. Just look at what people write and sometimes the clothes they wear and such. I remember for a while I started to read teenage girl magazines and "Sailor Moon" comics and so on. Its like we got stuck in our female development sometime in puberty and there we still are and have to learn how to become a woman of our real age from that on and that only happens by trial and error - maybe by being told in a harsh way that a belly-free shirt is a bit ridiculous for anyone above 25 . Thats life - transition is a toughie and I think there is no absolutely smooth transition even for those who have a lucky body. Well maybe if you started at age 12 or 14 it would be smooth, but even then the feedback from society is not always good - but trust me - we get stronger with that and this is part of our development towards adult women. So if you have some really good reasons its ok to delay a bit, like laser, which does a hell lof of good in terms of passability when people are close up and reduces the need for those ugly looking thick layers of cover makeup. But it definitely makes no sense to push everything back always. One has to start somewhere and risk something - and if that is being looked at in a bad way because one acts feminine while still presenting male, then that is really not that bad - just ignore them and screw that and maybe take it as a reason to actually stop presenting as male as at that moment that mismatch is actually gone.

I see what you mean.  At some point we just have to fight through and do it.  Still, I want to do it at the right time.  It will never be easier, but at least easier.  Then again, I hate continuing as a guy, so something has to give soon.

Quote from: Heather on September 22, 2013, 02:25:34 PM
Well if someone tried to out you based on a pic you posted on a transgender support site you could ask them what are they doing lurking on a transgender support site? 

Believe me, there are some interesting people out there.  I'd rather not risk it and face the repercussions of the one lurking bigot or crazy person.   Perhaps I'm making things worse than what they probably are, but I have been bullied in the past and have seen some people do evil things.  You never know. 

Quote from: Teela Renee on September 22, 2013, 05:19:45 PM
Aside from dressing up for timeline photos. I presented as male at work and home up until the day I started my RLE. nothing wrong with it hun. Everyone Transitions diffrently. hell one of my friends went 4 years before even trying on girls cloths.

Thank you for sharing.  That's good to know.

Quote from: Kate G on September 22, 2013, 05:02:29 PM
Until you realize that you have always been female you will never have any sense that you are.

My knee jerk reaction was to say listen to your sister but upon thinking about it longer I think you should probably hold off.

If you could try presenting female some place where no one knows you then you might get a feel for whether you are ready or not.  But dealing with people who know you from before is unpredictable and people love to talk, and point.

My first time out will probably be with supportive friends (I'll force them to come with me,lol) and hopefully we will go for a bit of a ride.  Maybe that will make things easier.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on September 22, 2013, 05:31:21 PM
I agree absolutely that everyone should go at the speed and follow the steps that they feel comfortable with.

However I hate to tell you this, but ultimately it probably won't make all that much difference to the outcome - aside from your own comfort zone.

The way it works is this; unless you were lucky enough to transition before anyone outside your immediate family knew you, however well you actually do "pass," to use your terminology, someone will find out about you, and WILL then use that information to make sure that others comment negatively on your presentation or whatever – and irrespective of how good you actually DO look – those so commenting with negative intent, will rely on your own fear and insecurity to make you feel like you don't quite cut it...

The bottom line is you may actually look absolutely 100% right to someone who doesn't know you - but to anyone who has been "told" of course you won't – even if you actually do – because they "know" and so they will always contrive to convince themselves that they can see the signs of your origins, otherwise they might have to admit to themselves that men and women aren't really that different after all. (which personally as an intersex woman I am 100% convinced of and comfortable with – but which truth I find most people both cis and trans are rather uncomfortable with!)

The bottom line is however well you prepare – you are going to get some comments and some of them will not be nice. So one way or another you do just have to learn to deal with it, and ironically the better you deal with it, and the less it affects you, the less it will tend to happen. I don't give a ->-bleeped-<- whether someone thinks I'm male female or in between, and ironically I never get any questions...

Yes I did have the advantage of a childhood spent more less in my current gender – and yes my treatment was completed 3 decades ago, but actually thinking about it now I think it has far more to do with the fact the I care so little, that on the odd occasion when someone does mis-gender me I really don't even notice. (and of course if they did do it deliberately – the total lack of reaction rapidly deprives them of any certainty that their suspicions are right. So they soon stop because they aren't getting a confirming reaction from me – and everyone else is looking at them like they are the smelly nutter on the bus!)

I'm at medical school. I'm surrounded by doctors. If anyone is going to recognise someone intersex its them! (A few do know my background because it's a bit difficult to hide when we sometimes practice intimate exams on each other 😉 😀 ) and yet I get away with it – not because I look glam or fab or anything much ... but because I'm comfortable in my own skin, and I don't try to hide my differences.

On the contrary I positively own and indeed proudly utilize some of the cross gender attributes that nature has graciously blessed me with – like for example superior strength and size. Very useful if you want to portray yourself as a no nonsense adventurous fit female rugby player! So most of these well educated medical professionals don't see what is right in front of their eyes because nothing in my behaviour or their imagination leads them to look for that particular explanation for it. Instead they just see me as a robust sporty type of woman who is jolly useful in a crisis or a scrap.

Bottom line – however well you prepare you can't escape the initial reactions – but over time with the application of a bit of reverse psychology you can probably move to a place where people stop noticing.

That's true.  Yet, I really want to have the best first experience possible.  I guess mitigate the potential damage and learn to handle my fear.  And then again, I really don't want to keep waiting  forever.  Believe me, I realize I'm a frustrating person,lol.

Quote from: Erin Brianne on September 22, 2013, 05:33:57 PM
I still present male at my place of work..  I am pre everything and my first and second outings in female clothing was to see my therapist.   I did go to a girls night out on friday and I had so much fun and cant wait to do it again.  The first place was a sports bar and grill.  The second place was a club.  Each place had a totally different crowd.  And it was such a confidence booster.  It felt good to actually be me. Everyone is different in their approach on transitioning.  I accepted myself as I am and once I start hrt I will already have my confidence.   Keep your head up and do what YOU feel is right.

Thanks for sharing.  I guess my problem is I do know what feels right.  I feel so many things that my head is spinning.  If I had to choose, I would imagine waiting a little bit more is for the best.  That way I can start part time in January or so with a little more experience and preparation.  On the other hand, the more I wait the worse the dysphoria gets.  Like, I've always been jealous of other girls, but it's reached an insane level lately.  While jealousy isn't a good thing, I can't help but feel it.  Why didn't we all get to be cisgirls and why do we have to deal with the struggle of being trans?  I realize that is just whining and it isn't productive, but that's what I keep feeling when I look at other girls my age.  It's really frustrating. 

Quote from: ZoeM on September 22, 2013, 05:53:21 PM
In my case, I slowly switched over everywhere - work, home, etc. - I let my hair grow for a year and a half before fulltime; practiced mannerisms and trained my voice constantly during that period (including at work!); by the time I started hormones I looked like Graduate Steve Jobs:
(Seriously - it was scary close)

Then I took eight months for hormones to work their magic, and at the end of it I just switched over. I can't say whether it was "100% girl on day one", but I think it was close.

I'm guessing that'd be the wrong way round for most of you - spend most of a year as male before doing anything - but it helped me get the surrounding bits in place (without anyone really noticing) before I made the switch. So all in all, thanks, take-your-time-therapist!  You probably saved my bacon!


Annnd I should probably say something for the folks at home.

So. You may be transitioning at an awkward point - a "We're not quite ready to pass all the time yet" point. But keep in mind, if you keep at them, the things that are missing will come. Hair will grow. Voices will improve. Before long you can make it - if not all the way to that magic 100% mark - then a lot closer than you fear you'll have to live with.

Thanks for sharing Zoe!  I don't know why, but your transition always inspired me.  Maybe it's because we are close in age, but I also always appreciated your care and love for your family. 

In any event, I'm glad to hear that a slow transition can work out.  Maybe I just need to keep doing what I'm doing, although more aggressively, and find a way to cope with the increased dysphoria without putting myself out there prematurely.  My therapist is pretty much in the same camp and is helping me solve the more important issues like confidence and self esteem.  I appreciate that and believe the agenda we have set has been working.  Still, I need to do more while I wait for the right moment and have to learn how to cope with dysphoria until I'm ready.

Quote from: Sierra Belle on September 22, 2013, 09:48:18 PM
I whole heartedly have to disagree with this statement and any statement similar, where yes to be a PROPER as society sees fit girl, you do have to be and act in that particular way. But EVERYONE is different, my own sister for SO long refused to do ANYTHING girly.  Did that make her a boy? No, not at all. And even now, she hates doing overly girly things.  Women, girls, Men and boys all come with MANY varieties.  Make-up WILL make you feel better facially, should it be a requirement? Not necessarily, not really at all.  You be the woman or girl you think you should be, but don't let waiting for hormones stop you from starting it now.  I haven't and don't plan on changing how I am at all. I'm the same person, I haven't been living a total facade, I am how I want to be.  I'm just not presenting as I wish I would because I would personally like some more chest development. 

Girl does not equal girly, woman does not equal womanly.  Be how you want, just be yourself.

Edit* Not the entire post, but the particular one pertaining to girls growing up as women, assuming it's referring to make-up and shoe obsessions, female mannerisms and the like.  There are boyish women out there, don't let non-ideal female mannerisms stop you.

I agree with this; however, some of us really do have a hard time allowing ourselves to be ourselves.  I know I consistently stifle myself all the time.  For example, I may notice a friend or one of my sisters wearing a cute outfit and may want to complement them, but then I realize that's really femmy and I shouldn't embarrass myself like that.  That's just one example, but I always hold myself back out of fear.  It's weird, I know, but I need to learn to be comfortable being the authentic me.  Still, I agree that no one should be something they aren't or act in a manner that they don't desire to.  Whatever that is, go out and be true to it. 

Quote from: Joanna Dark on September 22, 2013, 10:15:05 PM
I keep reading over and over agin about "becoming a woman." I'm not becoming anything. I am a woman. Case closed. I guess I'm lucky in that I am naturally femme, act like a woman naturally (or so I've been told my whole life), coulda passed preHRT with laser alone, so maybe it is easier for me to see myself that way. but until recently I din't view myself as a woman until HRT; I just felt like one with no subjective expereince to relate it to. Now I have that.. The experience and being treated the way I am has really changed me. HRT will change you. In many ways it is magic I just think people don't know what magic is. In witch craft, I have been a witch since I was 13, magic is all about herbs. So in a way HRT is magic. But if you really want to expereince full womanhood you have to put yourself out there and there is no need to wait. Forget eveyone. Live for yourself. Plus, LTL, ditch the busnies casual clothes and dress andro. i don't know how you do it. i do it for work and the clothes are pretty femme, polka dots and some pink and purple shirts. And women's size 8 andro flats. Abd I cant stand it.

But sometimes I feel like the odd woman out on this forum. My expereince seems to get put down a lot because I have always been this way and did not discover it and that expereince is put down a lot. Heck, being femme and likeing men seems to get put down and liking looking femme is always called a stereotype by someone. Tangent sorry. I digress.

I don't think liking men or acting fem is seen as a negative here at all.  I fit in the same camp, except I have a lot of social holding me back from acting fem.  It's not so much that I need to learn it or experience it, but rather I need to feel comfortable embracing the way I've always wanted to interact with others.  Even when I do try to hide it, I'm not always the best as most people I have met in my life have assumed I'm gay.  I'm probably make no sense right now, but I assure you, it makes sense to me,lol.

The business clothes was more of an extension of my desire to positively stand to among my peers.  Attire makes an initial impression on others and give you the chance to prove yourself. I always had the respect of my professors and was given a lot of responsibilities for this reason.  The same can be said about my short work experience.  I suppose I've recently fallen from grace in many ways, but that's okay.  I'm picking myself and starting over.  Hopefully this time I will stand out in a positive way for being the real authentic me.   Now I just need to learn how to show the real me,lol. 

Your sister sounds like a wonderful person!!

This reminds me slightly of an interview with Cher I seen earlier today. They asked her about her son Chaz, she said it took awhile to get use to what was happening, as she kept talking she never said her or him....I was getting a bit worried wondering how she really felt. Then at the end she mentioned in her usually sarcastic funny way...."hell I still use the wrong pronouns, but he's definitely a man!! I could completely understand what she meant. I felt vey good for Chaz. It is so hard for people so close to call you the proper pronouns. I have been FT for over 2 years now, my children still call me him quite a bit, it does hurt because they don't treat me like a "him" they're just so use to it. I can't blame them, but I do correct them and say I am not referred to as him anywhere else!!

Your sister is right, your not going to just wake up one day! My transition took over 3 years before I came out and then a little longer before I went FT. I took everything very slow and never marked a day I would do something or remember when I did do something significant. I was even still was working as him after my legal name change....though not for long. I could of went FT a year before I did since I was being gendered female even when people knew my very typical man name, I also stopped being gendered male on the phone even though I didn't think my voice changed that much. This is how gradual I took things. The voice was the biggest fear, I refused to fake my voice for the rest of my life. The thing is I am faking it but it doesn't seem that way, even if I get very lazy and just relax my voice it still sounds like a woman's.

I'm not a big believer of just changing over in one day, I don't think it's fair to the ones that love you. Even when I did go FT I still kept things mellow.....though I' m not overly girly to begin with...but definitely not a tomboy. The biggest noticeable change I made more present was the fact I had breasts, this was very scary at first...since I tried to hide them for the past year!! I didn't wear any low cut tops, its just they were now out in the open!! Beyond that I didn't wear dresses, paint my nails, wear a lot of jewelry, I was frankly pretty drab for a women. I did this so to not shock the ones I loved. After about 6 months of being slightly drab I got to the point close to where I am now....though I still didn't wear any skirts or dresses. I am now at the point where I own 4-5 dresses and the same for skirts but wear them sparingly, but I like the fact I can when I want and do go through stages where I will wear a dress or skirt 2-3 times in a week.

The biggest challenge I have is convincing myself I am nothing of a man any more....I am a woman!! some trans are more secure with their selves even though others may not see them as much as a woman as they do...and quite frankly they don't blend in 100% but they are 100% secure with their selves, I envy them!!.  I have had much of the opposite happen, I have had people that found out and don't believe, or people very close to me say the same thing Cher said about her son, even my children do not see me as nothing but a woman, they do still call me dad but they treat me 100% as woman, I have had instances happen that should eliminate any thoughts that I appear as anything but a woman, one that included my ex .....so then why can't I do the same for myself!!

The hardest part of being trans is convincing yourself, its harder for some if others don't see them the same as they do, but then it may be easier since they may be more comfortable being trans....but for someone like me "the so called passable" I can't get over the fact I use to be a man. I think its harder since I don't want to be known as trans...I just want to be an ordinary woman. I realize it's been just over two years but I fear this feeling will never go. I can guarantee not a single cis person goes around thinking "I wonder if they know I use to be a ......". I feel the few small things that still happen don't help, even my sister who has the view similar to Cher still says little things that make me feel like she thinks of me as a man, its not the mis-gendering (which isn't often) its just the attitude certain times. I find that I just don't want to be around anyone that knew me as him, but that's impossible!!

I have heard some say that they couldn't appear as a man if they tried. I don't believe this to be true. I think I could pull off appearing as a man fairly well.....acting I don't know! I do wonder though if I went out as "him" would I pass....I sometimes think I need to try this just to convince myself that I am a woman!!

Quote from: learningtolive on September 22, 2013, 10:46:14 PM

I agree with this; however, some of us really do have a hard time allowing ourselves to be ourselves.  I know I consistently stifle myself all the time.  For example, I may notice a friend or one of my sisters wearing a cute outfit and may want to complement them, but then I realize that's really femmy and I shouldn't embarrass myself like that.  That's just one example, but I always hold myself back out of fear.  It's weird, I know, but I need to learn to be comfortable being the authentic me.  Still, I agree that no one should be something they aren't or act in a manner that they don't desire to.  Whatever that is, go out and be true to it. 

Well, yeah, where it applies, totally. But it shouldn't be used as a general umbrella statement for everyone.  You shouldn't have to "fake" to be who you want, which is what I feel the push for make-up and girls personas is doing.  Because not EVERY girl is GIRLY.  This dysphoria I don't think has as much to do with being girly for some as it is to just be a girl, like me.  (Though, I do appreciate girliness, and am in fact girly.)

Quote from: Sierra Belle on September 22, 2013, 09:48:18 PM
I whole heartedly have to disagree with this statement and any statement similar, where yes to be a PROPER as society sees fit girl, you do have to be and act in that particular way. But EVERYONE is different, my own sister for SO long refused to do ANYTHING girly.  Did that make her a boy? No, not at all. And even now, she hates doing overly girly things.  Women, girls, Men and boys all come with MANY varieties.  Make-up WILL make you feel better facially, should it be a requirement? Not necessarily, not really at all.  You be the woman or girl you think you should be, but don't let waiting for hormones stop you from starting it now.  I haven't and don't plan on changing how I am at all. I'm the same person, I haven't been living a total facade, I am how I want to be.  I'm just not presenting as I wish I would because I would personally like some more chest development. 

Girl does not equal girly, woman does not equal womanly.  Be how you want, just be yourself.

Edit* Not the entire post, but the particular one pertaining to girls growing up as women, assuming it's referring to make-up and shoe obsessions, female mannerisms and the like.  There are boyish women out there, don't let non-ideal female mannerisms stop you.

I really wouldn't talking about being overly girlie. I haven't wore a dress in public in like 10 months so I definitely not advocating being real girlie. Also if your too girlie your going to stand out too much.
And also the reason I gave the advice I gave was because passing is very important to LTL. And its all good to say be yourself no matter how masculine your acting. But if you don't want people to notice you that's a bad idea.
The whole reason for my post in the first place was to encourage LTL to get out and be herself. I wasn't telling her how to dress or act that is something we all learn on our own and can't be taught. Getting out and trying to live as yourself is the most important part of transitioning I think.

Your sister is on to something. If you wait for hormones to make you feel satisfied and confident while you're not even trying, there's a 99 % chance you'll never do anything.

That said, 3 months of decent HRT isn't nearly enough to be saying that you should just stop waiting for hormones and go forth with life. Some do it and I respect their courage, but the fact is that after 3 months, you're only starting. It's fine to continue waiting. But don't drag that on to two years. That would be a tad long.

As for me... I'm a rather special case because even though HRT has improved my looks and all, I still don't have breasts and retain an annoying belly. So a point of real satisfaction and confidence has never come. But I set myself a moment to transition socially, and however scary, I respected the schedule. And I'm glad I did.

I think you should do that. Set yourself a rough date when logically hormones should've had enough time to give you satisfying changes, and do it then. Doing so will free you from both the fear of never finding the will to do it and the guilt of not doing it right now.

Also, it's just my personal opinion, but personally I don't see the point of there being a "part time" step at all. I just changed from the day I bought my padded bra, and didn't go back. I just threw away all of my bad clothes just then and started getting some female stuff.

Admittedly, given my budget, it was a bit hasty on my part and I ran out of clothes a tiny bit, because I don't have a car to efficiently go shopping and I can only afford thrift stores (and even then, right now I can't even afford those anymore), but you get the idea. I think doing things overnight and completely is the easiest way to do it. I think doing a part-time stage would do little but prolong the agony and give you an excuse to delay more.

Although what you can do until the chosen date is to be more yourself. Without actually transitioning, I think you should try to free yourself and your personality more. It's the only way I could wait so long. I just stopped being a real guy, and I started seeing being viewed as a fake guy/girly guy/person of unknown gender/etc. as much better than being seen as a man.

As a bonus, it made going full time a breeze (that sure did look like a hurricane from afar), because people expected and understood it as an explanation to my unusual behaviour. There weren't even any comments from my classmates.

No change in relationships (slight improvement maybe because I'm more comfortable with myself). No questions.A few very rare slip-ups because they've called me my old name for two whole years, but that's all. It doesn't seem to surprise them, even though most of them have probably never seen a transsexual.

Because I was myself as much as doable, it just made sense to them. If I'd tried to act male, though, I'm pretty sure the news would have surprised people more and the coming-out process would have been more of a pain to deal with.

So yeah, I think freeing yourself and your personality is the one thing you need to start doing. Don't rush yourself for the concrete big step, but try to act more like yourself. Every improvement in that domain will, I'm sure, ease things a lot and gradually turn the hurricane into a breeze.

I think you need to take things at the pace you feel most comfortable.  It's not really for others to decide how fast you do things.  Also, hormones (and the effects they have on your mind) and coming to terms with things, these are things you're doing right now, and they are big steps!  You don't have to feel like you have been just stagnating.  You will do whatever needs to be done when the time comes. 

BUT.. it does take time to adjust to a new gender role and, more than likely, you will have to go through an awkward phase(s) before you settle in and things become more normal.  That awkward period won't start until you start trying to be yourself publicly, so yeah, the sooner you can get going, the sooner you'll be done with it.  Some personalities (like mine, btw) need a little nudging, and if that's you, be thankful for your sister .  It won't happen magically, and hormones only go so far.

Quote from: A on September 23, 2013, 12:53:23 AM
Also, it's just my personal opinion, but personally I don't see the point of there being a "part time" step at all. I just changed from the day I bought my padded bra, and didn't go back. I just threw away all of my bad clothes just then and started getting some female stuff.
[...]
Although what you can do until the chosen date is to be more yourself. Without actually transitioning, I think you should try to free yourself and your personality more. It's the only way I could wait so long. I just stopped being a real guy, and I started seeing being viewed as a fake guy/girly guy/person of unknown gender/etc. as much better than being seen as a man.

Well I guess once you do what you describe in the second part, you WERE already transitioning. Tranistion is far more than dressing female, at least for most of us. It is also about re-discovering our core personality, about stopping to be someone we are not - and that is not only physical, all too often we have built up that fake protective persona around our true selves that made it through the days. Its natural I think and those who have not done so are blessed, for all the others transition starts when the male act is ended and one starts to just be oneself, no matter the body or clothes. And yes at that stage definitely people will be utterly confused at you as they see for the first time the mismatch that before only yourself experienced.

The point in doing part time for me was twofold - for once I could not stand to not be as I felt I am, but was too scared in some situations. It took a while to overcome that fear. And the other part was that I could experiment a bit with style and looks to see what I like and what not and what fits and what not. But honestly once I dropped the male thing, the division between presenting female or male was fluid. The main difference was to use a padded bra and cover any facial hair and there were some clothes I would not wear around some people or in some situations.

Quote from: learningtolive on September 22, 2013, 10:17:15 PM
I see what you mean.  At some point we just have to fight through and do it.  Still, I want to do it at the right time.  It will never be easier, but at least easier.  Then again, I hate continuing as a guy, so something has to give soon.

Yes I get that. But I think maybe it is a good suggestion for you as you seem to be more of a person who likes to plan, to set a fixed date for some of the steps if that can help you. Otherwise you may end up pushing that date always further as you will never feel that you are perfect now. I felt I still needed to improve my body looks a year into transition and honestly even now I go look at my face in the mirror and think to myself about what could be better and have some fear coming up as to if people will notice. My point is that the more you go along that path, the less of these telltale signs you will have (or the less maleness in appearance) but the curve is not linear, so at some point you will have to jump it. If I was back in time and had some money, I would have done laser before wearing padded bras or female gendered clothes that showed my HRT influenced body. So I understand if you want to wait for that, but dont overwait it on the 'mones. And DROP THE MALE ACT 😛 - you will see if you drop that stoic persona for good (if you already know you will not need it anymore that can be rather quick, otherwise it may take some time) you will already feel being in transition, people will start to react differently to you, with 'mnes working you probably will be gendered female at times even with unisex clothes, especially if you got your laser done and then you are on the ride and seriously will feel like it does not even make sense anymore to try and present male. Especially if you really dropped the stoic thing from your mind and memory. If you basically forget it. Then you cannot even go there anymore and all that is left then is to live as yourself and then it becomes silly to wear male gendered clothes unless you have a fashin sense that I know only from butch lesbians LOL.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on September 22, 2013, 10:15:05 PM
I keep reading over and over agin about "becoming a woman." I'm not becoming anything. I am a woman. Case closed. I guess I'm lucky in that I am naturally femme, act like a woman naturally (or so I've been told my whole life), coulda passed preHRT with laser alone
[...]
In many ways it is magic I just think people don't know what magic is. In witch craft, I have been a witch since I was 13, magic is all about herbs. So in a way HRT is magic.
[...]
Heck, being femme and likeing men seems to get put down and liking looking femme is always called a stereotype by someone. Tangent sorry. I digress.

I dont think people put down being femme and liking men. Why would anyone. We are all different. The only time I really dislike this is if people do this not because they actually really want to do it but because they are trying to prove something, like that they are "real women" because they wear dresses - or they do it because they think that only that way they can be perceived as women. If being femme is an act just like being male was before, then it hurts the liberation of the self. So I personally have a bandwidth available like most women do. I have moments in which I really love to be femme (though most of them were when I was younger and going out a lot) and some where I really am a butch going in work-clothes in a hardware shop to get some stuff for our garden. And most of the time I am somewhere in between that depending on my daily mood.
Re "becoming a woman" - I think this comes for many from one thing, that you may not have experienced that way. And that is the fact that many TS start at some time to create a mask to hide behind when society tells them to "man up". This "stoic persona" or shield is what is presented and inside we are in a cocoon. This means that to become ourself again means to first become the girl again that is in the cocoon, which means to break the cocoon and the shields and this is when transition starts. And then we become women as other girls also become women, meaning to go through puberty and adolescence and learning more about ourselves and about what it means to be a woman in this society. So its IMO not a "man becoming a woman" but rather a girl sitting in a coccon becoming a woman, if that makes sense?

And re witchcraft and magic being mostly about herbs - I dont know your flavour of witchcraft, but the flavour I know would disagree. Magic is not mainly herbs, it is a lot more, just like transition is much more than HRT. There is much more going on in terms of liberating energies and cleansing than just herbs, though yes of course herbs or in this case 'mones are a big part of it and it is much harder to work this magic of transition without it 🙂 - but that better goes into the paganism subforum

Uhm, I guess the difference lies in what definition of transition you use. To me, transition really begins when you start presenting as a woman (as in, hello, I am a woman), and it ends when you stop presenting as a man. But many will say that it begins when you acknowledge being transsexual and start moving towards your goal in whatever way, and that it ends... either when you're always presenting as a woman, either "never".