Quote from: learningtolive on October 05, 2013, 10:55:46 AM
I'm leaving this topic.  If you want the law overturned, win an election. Get control of both houses and the presidency.  Show that you don't have the majority and enforce it.  Instead of simply complaining about democracy and your lack of power, win the election next time.  It's funny how people quote the Constitution and Declaration of Independence yet mock the entire principal of democratic elections. 

I appreciate all views but I make a point to support everyone here without making it personal.  I've made a point to be friends with everyone from different backgrounds.  However, I ask those who are older to consider some things.  Try being a recent college grad in this economy and tell me what it's like.  Try having a degree in an oversaturated market that doesn't want to even hire people for entry level jobs.  Try sending close to 1,000 resumes with few call backs. Don't insult what you haven't been through because it's no longer the same market.  It's not easy getting a simple job nowadays and it isn't the fault of everyone young.  We didn't make the mess, but we are the ones who suffer for the sins of our elders.  I'm lucky to have found something and grateful because I know just how hard it is out there.

That is exactly what happened in the Congressional elections of 2010.  A reaction to the excesses of unchecked federal largesse.

What were the sins of your elders?  I would say, excessive and unsustainable social spending.  And that really has not been bipartisan, at least not for the past 80 or so years.  The Federal Government has a remarkable limited role it should be playing.

1) form a more perfect Union,
2) establish Justice,
3) insure domestic Tranquility,
4) provide for the common defence,
5) promote the general Welfare, and
6) secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity

That's about it.  And I'll add ...

7) operate within its means

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on October 05, 2013, 10:42:22 AM
Well, that safety net exists.  There is not a person in the United States that can be legally turned away from a public hospital.

Unless it is a life threatening condition, they tell you to see your family doctor and give you a speech about not using the ER as a clinic.

I had near emergency gall bladder surgery and am so grateful the hospital waved the bill. The doctors bill seperate, so now I am in debt and my credit is ruined.

Rosa

I'm leaving this topic too. I hate it when we try and have a conversation and everyone gets their panties in a wad over something that was said and take it as a personal affront. I'm not the most delicate person when it comes to wording my thoughts, but I really get upset thinking that I have hurt someone else's feelings being so blunt. My apologies to LtL, no personal insult was intended even if it was an insultingly honest line of thought on my part.

To be fair, the Affordable Care Act is not socialist - it isnt even a single payer system. One of the biggest problems with US healthcare is the ton of money that big business makes at our expense, especially insurance companies. If all that money went directly to healthcare ...

Just wanted to add one last thing.

I respect everyone's views.  None of us will see one thing alike.  I may have gotten to heated in the argument and apologize for that.  I'm usually more level headed and don't attempt to cause any form of distress for anyone here.  After all, this is like a family to me.  So, please leave my past comments alone and don't reply to them.  Some were to passionate and emotionally responsive. 

Just please try to understand that things aren't quite the same for the youth of today.  There is so much difficulties involved to just get a simple job, pay the rent, and afford the cost of living.  These are bad times.  We may disagree about the source of this, but we should all acknowledge that it is hard nowadays.  My new job won't give me benefits and I'll have to remain on my mom's insurance until I find something better.  However, the economy is hard and any job should be seen as a good investment until things improve.  It's what we face and yet we are constantly seen as freeloaders because of something we didn't cause.  That's why it's a bit upsetting.

In any event, I'm moving on.

P.S.  Shantel, of course I accept your apology.  And in turn I apologize to anyone I may or may not have offended or upset. 

I so agree, LTL.  I am in the same boat as you. 

The facts of humans has always been the RICh get richer on the Backs of the poor. Always has been, always will. Most forget thats why there was a American Revolutionary War.

Special intrest groups spend lots of money for one reason only, they bet back 3 folds.

Izzy

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 05, 2013, 08:49:44 AM
I'm with you baby! It is set up like social security and we all know that's failing. I mean, using the young to finance the old is an exact copy of social security. How in the world are they going to fund both? By the way, good morning sister.

Good morning or afternoon now to you too.  I'm really frightened for my future with this law.  I just turned 25 and new to the work force so I don't make a lot of money right now. How am I and others in my situation suppose to pay for other peoples healthcare. 

Quote from: mind is quiet now on October 05, 2013, 09:55:06 AM
As in anything in life it cost money. But seems many fail to see it is the first time ever that the LGB and yes T are protected and can get insurance that will pay for things and not get discriminated against. Also there is the medicaid part that will help many, many transgender people being most of them are below the poverty level.
There is also subsidies to those of lower income tax brackets.

Is it the best. NO. can it be better, YES.

It could be like Canada/England health care and you could not find a PCP doctor and wait months for appointments for anything. Oh everyone says oh Canada is free, let me tell you it cost way more out of our pocket then what it would cost in the states. My endo is always 6-8 months out to get my appointments.

Maybe it is time for the american people to take the country back and make there own term limits. That is the trouble with our goverment, to many that have carte blanche on the senete and congress. Ever wonder why they will no put term limits in? Oh who is still getting a pay check through all this shut down stuff? Last on this point the republicans are still mad they never could get a AHA of there own and will do anything to see this fail.

Lots of luck. You need to really look into the policies and also see if you get help from the goverment in tax credits.

Izzy

Give it time and we'll have the waiting lists and not enough doctors just like Canada and Europe.  Doctors are getting out of healthcare because of this law and young people are not going into healthcare.  All that equates to doctor shortage and long waits.

Quote from: learningtolive on October 05, 2013, 10:09:30 AM
Oh dear.... this again.

Sorry, I seemed to have opened a can of worms.  But now that I have let the games begin.

Quote from: Donna E on October 05, 2013, 10:18:50 AM
As a person living in France where absolutely everyone has obligatory medical insurance  with contribution levels directly linked to salary up to a certain maximum (a similar system exists in pretty well all the European countries) , and where poor people basically have completely free medical coverage, the debate on this subject in the US is something of a mystery.

How can a country that is as rich as the US think that it is OK for somewhere in the region of 20 million people to have no health insurance, people whose only "fault" most of the time is simply to have been born into poor circumstances or to find themselves stuck in low paying jobs that provide no medical insurance?

I am far from being a fan of Karl Marx  but with health care representing about 12% of GNP here versus around 17% in the U.S. and waiting times for most things beyond really exceptional procedures generally very short, it is hard to conclude that the "free market" system as practised in the U.S. is providing anyone with better value for money than what we get here .

All down to differences in perception about fairness I guess...
Donna

Well rest assured the US will not be a wealthy and powerful nation for long.   However China will and that's more frightening than Obamacare.

Quote from: Tatyana on October 05, 2013, 12:17:02 PM
Sorry, I seemed to have opened a can of worms.  But now that I have let the games begin.

I responded quite emotionally in this thread, so I retract some of my past posts that were seen as combative or unfriendly, even if I was standing up for what I believe.  Enjoy your discussion as it is your right to bring it up and sorry if I have caused anyone unintentional grief.  I shouldn't have intruded like I did; it's not something I am proud of.  Again, I would ask everyone to please leave my past statements in this thread out of the rest of the conversation this because I'd rather not be the source of any conflict on the site and don't like how I carried myself and the tone of my commentary.  Thanks.

Tatyana, you are just giving voice to reason.  You heard all of the propaganda touting how great this would be, and now you have seen the personal impact.  Your standard of living is going to necessarily drop, because of strong arm politics.  I have 3 kids, out own their own, +/- 3 years your age.  I feel very bad for them and the burden you all are being asked to carry.

And it is a burden - an unfair inter-generational burden that will only get worse if it is not stopped dead in its tracks now.

The essence of slavery, Lincoln said, was expressed in the proposition "You work; I'll eat." Upon his election as president, he was besieged by office seekers who drove him to distraction. Lincoln was blunt in his judgment of the great majority of them: They wanted to eat without working. Lincoln saw the demand for the protection of slavery and the demand for government sinecures to be at bottom one and the same. The origin of all constitutional rights, according to Lincoln, was the right that a man had to own himself, and therefore to own the product of his own labor. Government exists to protect that right, and to regulate property only to make it more valuable to its possessors.
- Claremont Institute

This graph shows what I mean:



We need the leadership that existed in 1997 to 2001.  Federal spend of the levels of 2009 to 2012 can not be sustained.  The madness must stop.

Quote from: learningtolive on October 05, 2013, 12:28:59 PM
I responded quite emotionally in this thread, so I retract some of my past posts that were seen as combative or unfriendly, even if I was standing up for what I believe.  Enjoy your discussion as it is your right to bring it up and sorry if I have caused anyone unintentional grief.  I shouldn't have intruded like I did; it's not something I am proud of.  Again, I would ask everyone to please leave my past statements in this thread out of the rest of the conversation this because I'd rather not be the source of any conflict on the site and don't like how I carried myself and the tone of my commentary.  Thanks.

LtL is such a sweetie, we all have different opinions based on our own experiences and understanding of the world and how things work or don't work, so it's easy to become passionate about things. Let me encourage all of us to tread lightly with each other because what we are discussing here will go on in spite of how we feel about it and there is little if anything we can say here that will change it. I for one don't want to be banned from Susan's for arguing about things that none of us have any control over.

I don't see you, Shantel, or anyone else getting banned for stating their opinion about this.  Indeed, you and I are both old enough to remember these words ...

In your hands, my fellow citizens, more than in mine, will rest the final success or failure of our course. Since this country was founded, each generation of Americans has been summoned to give testimony to its national loyalty. The graves of young Americans who answered the call to service surround the globe.

Now the trumpet summons us again - not as a call to bear arms, though arms we need; not as a call to battle, though embattled we are - but a call to bear the burden of a long twilight struggle, year in and year out, "rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation" - a struggle against the common enemies of man: tyranny, poverty, disease, and war itself....

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.

I imagine John Kennedy is rolling in his grave today, at the antics of his successor. Our duty, as good citizens, is to make our feelings known.

Quote from: Shantel on October 05, 2013, 10:24:34 AM
Yes, when you finally get out on your own and become financially responsible you will learn to balk at the idea of supporting and army of willful deadbeats that refuse to support themselves and prefer to live as parasites off the hard won gains of others. Of course there is a need for a social safety net for the disabled and disadvantaged among us, but at the current rate of abuse this country is bound to collapse under the weight of it's economic obligations, and when that happens those who mindlessly parrot what their Marxist mentors at university have taught them will see the light and change their tune albeit too late.

Could not have said it better myself.  Great reply!

Quote from: mind is quiet now on October 05, 2013, 11:44:01 AM
The facts of humans has always been the RICh get richer on the Backs of the poor.

Izzy

That's a lie that has been told so many times that people blindly accept it as the truth but it's simply not true.  The poor have nothing.  You can't get rich off people who have nothing to take.  Further, the poor are mostly uneducated and unskilled. Pretty hard to exploit that.  The truth is that wealth has done more for poor people than anything by providing jobs. 

I feel like I have no problem paying extra for helping someone on the streets get better health care. The of good health care is preventative care, taking care of somebody before they get really sick, and if they are uninsured, it costs the hospitals to take care of them. As a health care worker, I see too many people who are insured going to the emergency room, using up all their resources, when it should be used for the critically ill. I feel that this country does have democrasy as pointed out by LTL, and I think that in the end we need to do something to fix this failing health care system.

Quote from: Jamie de la Rosa on October 05, 2013, 12:36:58 PM
Tatyana, you are just giving voice to reason.  You heard all of the propaganda touting how great this would be, and now you have seen the personal impact.  Your standard of living is going to necessarily drop, because of strong arm politics.  I have 3 kids, out own their own, +/- 3 years your age.  I feel very bad for them and the burden you all are being asked to carry.

And it is a burden - an unfair inter-generational burden that will only get worse if it is not stopped dead in its tracks now.

The essence of slavery, Lincoln said, was expressed in the proposition "You work; I'll eat." Upon his election as president, he was besieged by office seekers who drove him to distraction. Lincoln was blunt in his judgment of the great majority of them: They wanted to eat without working. Lincoln saw the demand for the protection of slavery and the demand for government sinecures to be at bottom one and the same. The origin of all constitutional rights, according to Lincoln, was the right that a man had to own himself, and therefore to own the product of his own labor. Government exists to protect that right, and to regulate property only to make it more valuable to its possessors.
- Claremont Institute

This graph shows what I mean:



We need the leadership that existed in 1997 to 2001.  Federal spend of the levels of 2009 to 2012 can not be sustained.  The madness must stop.

Oh yes I was in collage during his campaign and Obama was practically given God status.  You didn't dare question him or you could expect the wrath.  I admit I got caught up in all the hype and did vote for him.  Now I regret that vote.

Quote from: Tatyana on October 05, 2013, 02:27:26 PM
That's a lie that has been told so many times that people blindly accept it as the truth but it's simply not true.  The poor have nothing.  You can't get rich off people who have nothing to take.  Further, the poor are mostly uneducated and unskilled. Pretty hard to exploit that.  The truth is that wealth has done more for poor people than anything by providing jobs.

Ok let me sloooww this down for you some. The Rich on the backs of the working poor get richer and the poor keeps getting more poor to pay for what the rich do not pay in fair taxes. It has been this way from the start. Normal people just keep working for the man, and the man does everything it can do to keep the person under there thumb.

I am sorry you do not like the AHA. It has already did so much help for our community and i am sorry how people wish to ->-bleeped-<- in there own beds just because of lack in understanding the whole picture.

As i said earlier, is it the best, NO, but does it help our transgender community way more the the average Joe, YES.

I did not vote for obama, i have voted republican every election. But it does not stop me from looking at thing in there content. The republicans are so upset they could not ever get a health plan passed when they had control. Yes look back they had control of both the house and the senate. They left special interest rule the party and nothing ever happened to help the people. Now they went the legal route and tried to get it over turned by the US supreme court. That failed. Now they are holding everyone in the states hostage just to keep people who really need the help not get it.

Izzy

Thats my 2 cents worth and last i will post. Look at what this offers the community and i am for what will help others not suffer. I have compassion for those who are discriminated with every single day. This now gives them a little hope if the republicans do not yank the rug out from under them once again.


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