Gina, Steph and Leigh were using some discretion in not talking about self enhancement at just this point, but we are getting awful close aren't we? after all, this is the gist of what this thread is getting into, do counter bought drugs work or not in non medical treatment?
As to the widest range of rather expert or near so experience, no, they do not work without estrogen type forms that are illegal by law in most places to sell across the counter if they contain estrogens in any amount or form to be useful in male to female body changes or for any use without a doctors care and supervision, such things will get pharmacists thrown into prison if they knowingly and habitually sell such things, though they may have some effect on born females or those with existing female organs and such things are universally throughout the world known to be dangerous to human beings who have particular health problems..... and no, there is NO certified tests which show they do work, at least NONE that have made any kind of non commercial news in the scientific community unless they have to do with fish, rodents or RATS etc. It might be best to steer away from such redundant and non intellectual chatter as there are those that WILL try out dangerous drugs that can permanently disable them for life just because someone said it MIGHT work. Castration at very young ages to some extent, if you have a lifetime to wait for "quick and easy" results, but how many will go that route? especially with most likely results being possible if before puberty starts and it is also likely nothing useful or satisfying will occur other then growing up with a frilly voice and no beard if done before they grow one or their voice hormonally changes by having enough T during puberty.
As to taking female estrogens at female dosages, there are only certain physical characteristics in a male that will make it work without many, many years in born male form, again, useless information in the real scientific world though there are those who said it would work. Like your friend did, first she said she was taking ONLY the store bought stuff then admitted she was taking someone's estrogen pills, which again is self medication if you didn't mention anything about doctors or the need for them. Altogether a bad subject to be discussing unless you want to talk about valid scientific research other then what people say without validity, scientific fact about these products other then what they want to tell you. For general scientific knowledge, NONE of it works without Estrogen or possibly some other forms not talked about in any public forum, and that would have nothing to do with pharmacy developers as they could sell you enough XXX crap to fill their bank if
they could which they can't by documented REAL studies And yes Gina, I'll talk to you in PM if you have any legit treatment questions about who and how to get help, but there is enough of that kind of information not only in the forums but the Wiki and a lot that is said right here in the forums and the forums and Wiki is where legit and expectation does the best for everybody and all concerned what with all this "LEGIT" redefinition going on all the time on other boards and among those who can't spell D O C T O R on the streets and give all the crap about non therapy drugs to everyone, I know more personally about the problems with HRT/RLT and such then many other medically defined clinical TS's. I'm not for that cowpattie stuff about hormones which most clinical TS's have never used or seen work, that no doctors, therapists or private enterprises have any scientists, legitimately able to prove works, or have no belief in at all. I've had my own shell shocks before, during, afterwards and again last year with nowhere to go but where I must to have it all done in the medical zone only, and even then without any guarantee of no risk. My medical record suggests another stroke within 3 or 4 years from now due to what they call the Estrogen Stroke last November. When i make SRS I can't even think about how long I'll last afterwards, how's that for you and BS drugs without any scientific proof that they really can and do work, regardless of what the devil said. HRT can and will kill some people or give them conditions that will no longer allow them to work or make a living, Believe it.
Chaunte wrote: QuoteI know that my therapist is asking more and more questions about me and not focusing so much on GID. She asks a lot of hard questions that can be tough to answer, and that is good. In the long run, it will make me more of a complete and unified person.
I believe you. Same here, in my case I became a rather endangered and endangerment to others due to some career choices I made in the early 70's to escape all gender related estrangements and suspicions, I spent some years kill or be killed for some years just to confirm myself as male and really wasn't handling it on an internal basis and worked myself into a kind of person, few would want to be around much unless they knew me very, very well and I knew them for being real.
I finally allowed some treatment on my real feelings about those things which I did for all my life in the company of therapists; not for anyone else's real good, but for my own frame of mind and linked with becoming suicidal due to being taken off estrogens over a stroke last November and conducting myself badly for some time before they found a way to put me back on at much lower doses then before .... much more then birth control pills or such which Gina was giving which have been proven not to do the job in any kind of timely manner if anything at all other then possible medical defects in the male body, or female body also. I'm not really into what some people on the street might say about them working or not. There is no scientific proof even by the people who make them that they really do work on any but a very few people if any at all. No scientific tests by scientific standards has been shown to science or public by the ones who say thier products work, not in any workable, realistic manner that would give them any credibility at all or you would be watching the tests on 69 minutes don't ya think?
That's why I mentioned about non medical care in what Gina has been discussing. Any talk about store bought drugs, or internet drugs really are not the kind of thing we should categorically talk about here in a safe, medical and cognizant way, it is just that when not talked about in a congenial and medical way, such methods are dangerous and I have had some good experience what can happen even with some of the best medical programs available to me, or anyone for that matter and I have met and talked a lot with other TS's I can trust for truth and programs that I know for a fact or as close as possible to me that tell me what they have seen happen in many areas and I have no reason to doubt them just as I have no reason to doubt Dr.'s, Psychologists and Psychiatrist who I have talked to almost every day of the week for years at work.
I don't get everything right all the time, but I know what the medical professionals have told me, Pharmacists have told me, and some post ops have told me and what people on the street have told me. I prefer to take it from the scientific people and people who were there about what's legit or not and what effects they have had with non prescription drugs. Notice that you will find few if ANY actual clinical TS types, who are in legit transition under medical care who have any logic at all in store bought drugs that actually work, as most are in sever financial condition due to their constant expenses for medical care and drugs. and might possibly use the drugs under medical care if they worked at all as good as estrogen, which is NOT all that expensive when you have a source for a medical prescription. I HATE all that BS about use this cream or that cream to grow BIG breasts, it is just so much COWPATTI by any scientific tests done in a realistic way without preconceived lies and multiple untruths about how good it works when talking to a sales pitching bunch of trying to get there for nothing. YOU CAN find a doctor that will work for you if you really try. It is work and friends that are the hard part but you can find friends and you can find work, you simply have to go DO IT.
Sorry about all that, I have a very personal issue about the supposed safety of HRT, even though I know that medically used HRT is most generally safe for most that use it, though I have heard legitimate accounts of some medically supervised persons who have had up to death in the results of it, and I've had my own criteria I have been slowly clawing out of just over this last year over should have transitioned years ago and didn't and waited almost to long to actually no longer able to not do it under the best of medical care, I have never taken a pill that wasn't prescribed to me of anything since as a teenager, and that was more then 40 years ago and already deeply in the rough over the TS problem that I didn't have the nerve for back in those years and tried to live without it.
Terri
