I maybe I'm stupid about some things and I know I'm not all knowing but what difference does it matter to anyone other than my SO if I go through transition?  With what I'm spending on clothes, surgeries, hormones and a psyc, I'm even stimulating the economy!  I'm not hurting anyone, I'm not threatening anyone, I'm not telling anyone they should do this,  I work every day, I pay a bunch of money in taxes, I help my neighbors, I help people at work, I volunteer and help those with less than I.  All I'm trying to do is pursue happiness in my life and not smash my car into a bridge at really high speed because life is so very painful at times. What is it about my being transgender that causes normal people to become hatred filled idiots? 

Only my opinion my sister, but maybe they are afraid of what lurks in their own mind. Maybe they have looked into the abyss, and it looked back. They might use hatred because they do not have any other way of dealing with it. I have found that those who are the most vocal also have the most to hide. Love ya! 

Sound like you are having a very bad time. Care to share?

It's because people on a fundamental level are insecure creatures who are always seeking to validate themselves and their own feelings and their own self-identity. Because of the binary nature of our society, where you have to either be male or female, and this is taken to be self-evident from pretty much the instant that we're born when we are instantly segregated and expected to live up to a million stereotypes about what that gender means, trans people unfortunately challenge that strictly binary nature, and therefore what people's internally-held notions of gender identity are. Because everyone is taught from infancy that they have to be men because of their anatomy and their chromosomes and therefore like sports and therefore wear blue and therefore be masculine and therefore ___ and therefore ___. People spend their entire lives fitting themselves in with those niches and stereotypes, asserting how well they fit their own category because that's what society has taught them they have to be like in order to be an ideal "male" or "female" specimen. So when someone comes along that challenges that binary nature, challenges the things about themselves that they are trying to prove, there is naturally a backlash. By lashing out at us, they are trying to protect their own sense of self-identity, re-affirming their own gender identity and their own worth by shunning that which doesn't fit into theirs.

That's my thoughts on it, at least. It seems to me that it's the most insecure people, the people who are constantly trying to live up to some societal notion of perfection, that have the most problems with anyone who goes against their own identity and yet claims to be equally as human as them. By knocking you down, they're subconsciously trying to build themselves up and reaffirm their own perfection and own worth.

Anyway, I know that's not the point of this thread. The point was to vent, and to make a point about how really our existence shouldn't challenge anyone. And I agree. We really are no threat to anyone. What we're doing, in absolute terms, has no effect whatsoever on anyone else. But perhaps you've noticed, as I have, that certain anti-LGBT media seems to use fear-mongering of the slippery-slope variety to make people afraid that "they're coming after YOU, and YOUR family." And because people have this perfect image, they're scared of anything that might challenge it. It's not a predisposed notion. We learn it. It only exists because this binary cisnormative nature and this pressure to conform is pushed onto us from a young age. But it can be changed. If kids grew up knowing that trans people exist, and that it's perfectly okay to be that, thus giving people a category to comfortably fit us into that doesn't challenge their own cisnormative notion of perfection, we wouldn't be having these problems. It's tough. But we can change this. So keep going. And don't let people get to you. We can change this.

Quote from: LordKAT on October 27, 2013, 12:54:02 PM
Sound like you are having a very bad time. Care to share?

It is the pain of a thousand little things and a few big things. It is frustration about my past and fear for my future.  Huge fears there.  But even more than that, I also see individuals on this forum and their pain from MaidofOrleans and her actions yesterday to Kim 526 with her love for her children plus a few thousand others, including the LordKAT.  It does get a little overwhelming and it does get frustrating.  However, it is also a desire to understand what it is that drives the hate in the hope that it can be more effectively overcome.

So, the question is more of a rant than I originally intended because I do in fact hurt and does reflect my frustration but it is also serious.  Carrie Liz's and Jessica's answer's in part go there and are a good start (thank you two).  Yet, I don't think they are specific enough. 

If I understand, I can better avoid what I can't win and I can better fight when I can win.

Thank you for caring enough to ask,

Jen

QuoteIf I understand,

Which is why I asked in part.

I think sometimes what people say hurt us way more than the ignorant person speaking even realizes. It is both our being over sensitive and them being ignorant and insensitive.


The only solution for some is patience, persistence and education. Sadly, I lack in all three.

Quote from: JLT1 on October 27, 2013, 12:30:20 PM
I maybe I'm stupid about some things and I know I'm not all knowing but what difference does it matter to anyone other than my SO if I go through transition?  With what I'm spending on clothes, surgeries, hormones and a psyc, I'm even stimulating the economy!  I'm not hurting anyone, I'm not threatening anyone, I'm not telling anyone they should do this,  I work every day, I pay a bunch of money in taxes, I help my neighbors, I help people at work, I volunteer and help those with less than I.  All I'm trying to do is pursue happiness in my life and not smash my car into a bridge at really high speed because life is so very painful at times. What is it about my being transgender that causes normal people to become hatred filled idiots? 

You are threatening the bedrock upon which many 'straight' males base their whole perception of themselves. They hate US because we make them question themselves, if one wishes to avoid knowing oneself one avoids reasons to look within........

Quote from: JLT1 on October 27, 2013, 01:28:29 PM
However, it is also a desire to understand what it is that drives the hate in the hope that it can be more effectively overcome.

I would venture that a large percentage of people don't even understand what, or why they hate. They do so because everyone else seems to do so. To fit in. To stand up among a group of people they want to be accepted by and say: "Yeah, I think like you do. Don't you like me now?"

Often it never occurs to folks to say "Hang on a minute... why do you think like you do? And for that matter, why do I think like I do?"

That, sadly, isn't limited to transgendered issues, but the world at large.

I think a lot of it is fear that we could enter a difficult or painful situation ourselves. When we hear about someone "screwed up" which is how transgender people are usually portrayed, we want to know everything. How did they get like this? Could that happen to me? No, no, they experienced (insert: abuse, bad experience, disease...), so it couldn't happen to me! Or to my children! We're normal!

I think that's also the reason why people are all over the "born this way" narrative, where kids know they're trans since they're like 3 years old. Because they think "well if my kid was trans, they'd be insisting as soon as they could speak", "if I was trans, I'd know by now. So no, we're safe."

That's not just with trans people - when people read a story about a woman getting raped, they think "what was she wearing? Where was she? Was she drinking?" So they, too, can assuage their fears that they may be the victim of a violent crime. Or if someone is poor or homeless. Or someone who caught a disease. Being trans isn't exactly a disease (more of a medical condition), but you know what I mean - difficult or challenging circumstances.

To answer your original question, no, it shouldn't matter. To anyone, except you and your SO, if you are trans. That's just my theory on why it does to many people.

People generally fear what they don't understand and too often hate what they fear.  It's *le sigh* the American way.

Unfortunately most will not even attempt to understand trans people and we end up vilified.  Far too many willfully ignorant people in this country for my taste...

I tend to feel sorry for myself on the hate who is put on being transgender.

but then I also feel sorry for those who want to put there energy in hating other people who is harmless for them, who maybe could even give them good friendship or advice. some of the most interesting people I meet or talked to have been people who was very diffrent from myself.

but well in general its best to use the energy on loving those who love you rather than those who hate you. its much better use.

I was thinking that very question while cutting the grass today.

In the Philadelphia gayborhood I feel a sense of community like no other place I have been. I would love to move there, perhaps some day.

A co-worker and I were discussing in private the fact that in PA you can be fired if you announce you are LGBTI, except for Philadelphia and I believe Pittsburg, while working for a private employer. I showed her an article stating such and the Councilman Kenny sponsored a law to provide protections ( employment, bathroom and HRT) which passed May 13. She had no idea. Then commented at her last job a he became a she. I said Philadelphia wants to be the most LGBTI friendly place in the country, she said why would they want to do that? I gave her the standard statistics concerning trans* then that I see a therapist. Oh she said, then I told her I started HRT May 28. She was speechless and needed time to process. We will have more conversations in the future.

I think one person at a time we can educate but there is risk and only some can be open minded enough to accept the information.   

Why should it matter to others, other than your SO? My gender is basic to me and I should not have to hide from bigots and demeaning stairs or comments. My family was touring Drexel University Sunday. We were crossing the street in front of the Haggerty Library. I remembered crossing the same street 30 years ago and several students shouting ->-bleeped-<-ot and homo at me. Oh the fond memories of college.

People often hate what they can't understand or don't relate to.  Some people can't accept differences in this world and it creates negative prejudices against the perceived outsiders.  That's one of the reasons why there is racism, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, hatred of other religions, hatred of different cultures, political isolation, extreme nationalism, distrust of different social classes, etc...  There is no one reason behind all of these things, but distrust and fear of the outsider is one of the motivating factors behind hate of all kind.  Most transphobic people don't understand us and see us as different which can make them uncomfortable.  Again, there are different factors behind transphobia, but I think this is the main issue for many.

It shouldn't matter to anyone outside of your immediate family, but as LtL said people are afraid of that which they do not understand. And unless they live it how can they understand? Case in point for me is I am physically disabled, I know that there are people in this world who feel incomplete because they are not disabled. They want to have perfectly functioning limbs amputated so that they can feel whole. (See Body Integrity Identity Disorder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorder) In a way I can kinda get it because of dealing with being transgender and not feeling right in my own body. Yet the thought of someone actually doing something so drastic as to have a limb cut off scares the hell out of me.

People hate us because they hate anyone does isnt a nonconformists to the standards their abide by, which they believe is an unbreakable human law. Its a good point that the people closets to you should matter and no one else. Why should a stranger enforce who you are, if they dont know anything about you other than assumptions.

Transgender is just something on a list of things that are a nuisance in my case.

Transgender.
Caucasian. Yes it seems being Caucasian annoys people. I didn't make the history eh.
NOT religious. Yes it is possible to be no religion and still not atheist. I am not saying there is no god for a reason. There is no proof there is, so why should a rational person think there is? That doesn't make me an atheist it makes me rational.

Those three details, they have been a pain for large swaths of my life in some cases.
Being TG is merely the most recent.

People seem threatened by my being TG and my expecting fair treatment. The insist on saying I can't get a break because of the past behaviour of whites. And the religious, well they insist the world has to be their way and to deny them this, is of course considered intolerant of me.

Some days, I just wish I could wake up next to my wife, as her wife, both of us called Mrs, and be in a word that really could comprehend the point of 'equality'. I have a right to my world as much as they to theirs.

I'm agnostic. I believe that there might be a god or gods but I don't follow a specific religion, I believe that's the position Lesley was also taking. (Though I could be wrong.)

Anyway, I don't have much to add to intelligent responses already here, my brain isn't as great as these very smart people. I am firmly in the camp that says the fact that you are transgender is between you and your SO and no one else should be able to say a thing, but I am sure that's nothing you don't already know...

Just wanted to chime in with some love and support on top of all this wonderous love and support. Let the insecure and unintelligent prattle on about how the world should fit into their tiny ideas. They are small minded and as a consequence lead small lives. I pity them. You are better than that, smarter than. So shine on you crazy diamond. And you are never alone. Hope tomorrow brings better and happier things, beautiful. 

love,
-maggie

It doesn't matter, don't let them get to you.

No matter what you do that is different, people are going to hate you for it.

People will hate you more if you are non-conforming in any way, not just gender. If you are, you have to develop a bit of a thick skin, not unlike a celebrity. How many negative articles are there on say, Brittney Spears or Tom Cruise? They just find a way to ignore it and live their lives the way they want to.

We are putting ourselves in the spotlight, but unlike actual celebrities, we don't have all the fans that support us, but really we do have to act like stars. A lot of stars have problems handling the constant criticism too, but in the end the successful ones brush it off.

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on October 27, 2013, 10:21:04 PM

Caucasian. Yes it seems being Caucasian annoys people.
The insist on saying I can't get a break because of the past behaviour of whites.

Note: Caucasian does mean white. Caucasian is a particular facial structure, anthropologically speaking.

People in India are Caucasian and have brown skin pigmentation. 

Search google images for "India people", and you can see that India people have the same facial structure as European whites. 

I am going to play devil's advocate on this topic.  Since I have only recently come to accept my gender identity issues, I can sympathize with all of the feelings expressed on this thread.  I have known that I was born physically the wrong gender my whole life, and have spend the majority of my life wishing those feelings would go away. 

Despite my transgender nature, I have have created a very stable life for myself and my family based on my biological sex.  I have made a difficult choice NOT to transition, because I feel that my gender does matter to a lot of people besides my wife.

- It matters to my son.  My son is 4 years old and deserves to have a father figure in his life.  Yes I am aware that there are very happy, well adjusted, intelligent children who are raised by two loving parents of the same gender.  Had I transitioned before he was born, he would not have been born.  When he was born I accepted the role of father and I cannot carry out that role if I express a female gender to him.

-It matters to my employer and the employees of that company.  I play a rather key role in a small company (of which I am well compensated for).  This small company sells high tech equipment to several well know Asian companies.  Despite what you may have heard, the Asian business world is extremely misogynistic.  I am expected to interact with these companies on a professional level, and if I were to present as anything besides my biological gender, it could impact our small company's  relationship with our customers.  If this were to happen, my company would be put in an extremely difficult position.  They could terminate my employment, which they would be in their right to do.  They would not be firing me because they hate me or are have any prejudice against me whatsoever, they would be firing me because I am a financial liability to the company, and I would totally support their decision to do so.  Or they could keep me employed (rather than loosing a fairly valuable human resource), and risk loosing a significant amount of business from our customers who will probably not be so open minded and accepting as my current American employers.  In which case several other people might loose their jobs because of the financial loss incurred by my choice to transition.  I cannot and will not put my employer (who is also a pretty good friend) and coworkers (who are also pretty good friends) in this situation.

The thing is, I have built a rather comfortable life for myself and my family (I'm pretty sure I could completely finance a full transition, HRT, FFS and SRS for myself if I wanted).  However as the sole financial provider for that family, that comfort rests entirely on my shoulders.  If I shrug, that life comes tumbling down, and I think a lot of people could get hurt by the fallout from that.

If I was single, 20 years younger, and just starting my career and had the resources I have now, I would totally transition.  But that is not how it is.  I might not get to choose the person that I am, but I definitely get to choose the life I live (even if it's not the one that makes me happy).

I don't expect anyone to make the same choice I have.  You have your own life and your own decisions to make.  I just want to express what I feel is a valid counterpoint to all of the equally valid opinions expressed in this thread thus far.

All the best.
J.