RLE is about EXPERIENCE, thus the 'E' in RLE. It is not a test. It is not for doctors or therapists it is for YOU. Its purpose is very, very simple - to let you see how it feels to be socialised as female before you start making major changes to your body.

It became a "gatekeeping" method when the doctors gave people what they wanted and a significant number never (in their own minds) feminised enough to go full time. "Oh my God - I simply cannot go full time. I am not feminine enough. Give me more drugs/surgery". These people can wind up with feminised bodies whilst convinced they are not "passing" and so must stay male. They wind up with a massive case of dysphoria worse than what they started with. Many became recluses. Many blamed the doctors who got fed up with the blame and the threats of law suits.

So what we now have is that the medical profession wants to see you socialising. They do not want to produce a crop of reclusively, depressed dysphorics. The idea is to improve things for you, not to make you worse. What a weird concept - doctors want to make things better. Who would have thought it?

There are people on this very forum who repeatedly state that they will never pass. Some of them are already on HRT and they still say this. There have been ones who have had SRS or FFS and they still say this. They are putting the cart before the horse and wondering why things do not work. I have seen posts here of people who seem pefectly passable from their piccies and they are banging on about having their femurs shortened or their hips broken and widened. I feel that they are on the same path as the "Bride of Wildenstein" (Google her...) and on an eternal search for hormonal and surgical perfection that will ultimately end in sorrow and pain.

I understand where people are coming from. I was terrified of RLE. I was terrified that I could never do it, I could never pass and I would never be accepted. I looked for all sorts of ways to avoid the doctors and therapists. I even looked at self-medding. I tried burying my dysphoria and we all know where that leads.

Eventually I came to the realisation that I needed the doctors and that meant RLE was going to be needed. So I tried it out before going to the doctors because I could see the sense in finding out if I could cope before I had boobs or went sterile. To my surprise, RLE was horrible, but not as horrible as I thought. I did it a bit more and it got easier. My confidence soared. I was a big bloke in a wig, dress and heels and I got read every 30 seconds but no one knifed me, burned my house to the ground or sacrificed my kids on an altar. As my confidence increased I got read less and less. Physically I was the same, but mentally I had changed and people picked it up.

RLE resolved all my doubts for me and I knew I could do transition. I knew before I started hormones that no matter what they did to me things could only get  better because even if they did nothing for me I could cope as I was. RLE gave me the total confidence to transition.

So that is my perspective.

What do I think of those who refuse point blank to do RLE? I think that most of them lack confidence in themselves. I think that a small number are lazy and not prepared to put work into their transition because transitioning is hard work in many ways - popping a pill looks like an easy out, but in reality it is not.I feel that they need to sort out the inside of their head before they start popping hormones because that is where transition really happens. If your head is not sorted out then your mind will stay mismatched with your body that is the very definition of what is wrong with us in the first place.

If RLE frightens you then maybe you should be considering that you are not ready to transition yet, because once you are ready nothing will stop you. Remember that transition only solves ONE problem by aligning your body and your mind more closely. All your other problems will be sitting waiting for you and they do not go away. Indeed, transition usually throws a few more on the pile to be solved.

Quote from: ConfusedHumanUK on February 17, 2014, 02:21:21 AM
Under the new protocol RLE is no longer required before HRT in the UK.

That may be what the protocol says and in fact it said it a bit earlier here in Wales than in England but that means precisely 3/5 of sweet Fanny Adams if the person writing the referral says otherwise. As I said earlier, in hindsight I don't think it was a bad thing to do 3 months before starting HRT but at one point I thought it was utterly barking.

Rosie

As we all know, or at least should know, there is a whole world of other stuff to learn and stuff to sort out with families and friends before hopefully the aesthetics from HRT will kick in. Waking up tomorrow morning in a female body will not make me a woman. In the UK, for me, it would have been nice to have started HRT when I started RLE. This would have been a far more complete diagnostic in my opinion, but like I have said in another post, there were other things to do and learn. And when you look as rough as a badgers bum, you learn to adapt pretty quickly to certain situations and then refine what you have got. However, I would not let anyone near me with a scalpel until I was sure what I wanted out of this whole transition malarkey. Now, thanks to RLE, I am sure of what I want.

So, for me RLE begins with HRT at the same time, but no gender based surgical procedures before RLE.

Nikki

Quote from: H, H, H, Honeypot! on February 17, 2014, 12:11:07 PM
........ but at one point I thought it was utterly barking.

Rosie

If you go by your profile avatar doofer thingy it says you still are 

Quote from: mind is quiet now on February 16, 2014, 05:24:54 PM
Me i think it is one of the best things you can do for yourself. To get out and live as you 24/7. It also gives you the time to get your name changed and other paperwork changed over to your new gender.

RLT is not really a test, it is really you just starting you new gender role before GCS.

This is the way I see it; I welcome RLE. My name change should be done sometime in July; I am currently on a full transitioning dose of hormones and I am using this time to explore life and practice and gain experience in what will shortly be my new full time mode. I still am forced to go to work in boy mode but I spend most weekends and some weeknights in girl mode. I push myself to go into uncomfortable situations in girl mode (uncomfortable, not unsafe) to force myself to learn to cope with them. Being out and about in public is a prime example; and learning how to deal with (or blow off) any dimwits that feel compelled to gawk or laugh or make inappropriate comments is important. Waiting until the day I've changed everything to learn this stuff just seems dumb to me.

I do have a disagreement with the requirement for RLE before hormones are given as is done sometimes. That just seems like gatekeeping to me.

The problem I have with the whole RLE test is that not everyone who needs SRS also needs to live as a woman. Some people are happy with their role as a male, but need a female body to feel comfortable with their body.

The two are separate in a lot of people's minds.

It is possible to live as a male with a female bottom perfectly well. Ask the hundreds of non-op FTMs on this site.

The RLE test relies on the outdated assumption that everyone who transitions physically must transition socially as well.

I don't get that. I mean the opposite certainly isn't true? The medical community has no problem with all the thousands of non-op women, why should they have problems with post-ops living as men?

Plus, I think ANY artificial requirement for gender surgery is patronizing.

What are the terms of rle? I didn't have to wait for hormones, i was told 6 months until i would be applicable. But it only took 2 weeks , i have no regrets and i was already living as a woman for years beforehand. I believe it's a waste because who needs 3 words to be yourself, and i have noticed most of the transpeople are reclusive.

Quote from: suzifrommd on February 17, 2014, 01:00:22 PM
The RLE test relies on the outdated assumption that everyone who transitions physically must transition socially as well.

When you are treated socially in a way at variance with your physical appearance, most of us regard it as misgendering. It upsets enough people that we went to the trouble of coining a word to describe it. Most of us find it enormously upsetting. Some may not but I would suggest that they are a minority.

Quote from: suzifrommd on February 17, 2014, 01:00:22 PM
The problem I have with the whole RLE test is that not everyone who needs SRS also needs to live as a woman. Some people are happy with their role as a male, but need a female body to feel comfortable with their body.

Plus, I think ANY artificial requirement for gender surgery is patronizing.

I think some people are unwilling to face the reality of being atransexual, the rle is a very good idea indeed with attitudes such as this.

Quote from: jebee on February 17, 2014, 09:32:07 AM
Life is dangerous. You are going to get abuse, no way will you be able to pass at first, if you cant put yourself through that then like i said this might not be for you.

I've spent my entire life dealing with religious oppression, and defending myself based on my personal beliefs. I am quite aware of how "dangerous" life can be.

And let me just educate you a little...I was born female. "this might not be for you" doesn't cut it. This isn't a fashion statement, or an attitude, or a lifestyle. This is my gender, and my life. It's not a choice, it's the path that I must follow to become a whole person and have a chance to live the life that I was meant to live. I didn't choose to be this way, so if it's "not for me" then WTF am I supposed to do, jump in front of a bus?? I think not. 

You want to attract unnecessary attention to yourself and become a statistic, more power to you. I myself, and many others I am sure, would rather transition smoothly, and gracefully, and look as "natural" as possible.

Quote from: TaoRaven on February 17, 2014, 02:25:04 PM
I've spent my entire life dealing with religious oppression, and defending myself based on my personal beliefs. I am quite aware of how "dangerous" life can be.

And let me just educate you a little...I was born female. "this might not be for you" doesn't cut it. This isn't a fashion statement, or an attitude, or a lifestyle. This is my gender, and my life. It's not a choice, it's the path that I must follow to become a whole person and have a chance to live the life that I was meant to live. I didn't choose to be this way, so if it's "not for me" then WTF am I supposed to do, jump in front of a bus?? I think not. 

You want to attract unnecessary attention to yourself and become a statistic, more power to you. I myself, and many others I am sure, would rather transition smoothly, and gracefully, and look as "natural" as possible.

its just not going to happen that way, you cant suddenly go from male to female without anyone noticing. Even with surgery you will still get the odd person notice and give you abuse. You will not pass at first as it takes practice. I've been through this. You will lose friends and family etc, but hay <not allowed> em..

im not being nasty im being honest, you going to get abuse and lots of it, so grow a thick skin.

As an added tidbit someome asked about name change in the US: It varies by state, but typically requires a court appearance to swear you aren't doing it for nefarious purposes, and public disclosure through publishing in a newspaper.

Quote from: jebee on February 17, 2014, 02:46:10 PM
its just not going to happen that way, you cant suddenly go from male to female without anyone noticing. Even with surgery you will still get the odd person notice and give you abuse. You will not pass at first as it takes practice. I've been through this. You will lose friends and family etc, but hay <not allowed> em..

im not being nasty im being honest, you going to get abuse and lots of it, so grow a thick skin.

I didn't get any real abuse from anyone outside of a few comments made by people I knew and they have since changed their tune. Having a crap attitude will attract it like flies to honey though.

Quote from: petunia on February 17, 2014, 02:54:55 PM
I didn't get any real abuse from anyone outside of a few comments made by people I knew and they have since changed their tune. Having a crap attitude will attract it like flies to honey though.

depends were you live really!! round here they will bash your head in for a few pounds.

Quote from: jebee on February 17, 2014, 02:46:10 PM
its just not going to happen that way, you cant suddenly go from male to female without anyone noticing. Even with surgery you will still get the odd person notice and give you abuse. You will not pass at first as it takes practice. I've been through this. You will lose friends and family etc, but hay <not allowed> em..

im not being nasty im being honest, you going to get abuse and lots of it, so grow a thick skin.

Actually, you can transition quite smoothly and attract very little attention. I, and many others on this site, are doing it right now. Once in a while someone might look at me kinda funny, but other than that, since I'm not "in their face" about things, there are no incidents of "abuse". You reap what you sow.

I have lost NO friends, and NO family...even though I came out to everyone (including my entire district at work)....so I guess that just proves once again that this process is different for everyone, and that it doesn't have to be a traumatizing experience.

I think maybe you're projecting your own unfortunate experiences and attitude onto others here. Not being nasty...just being honest

Back on subject. There is no point in forcing people to endanger themselves needlessly (See: https://www.facebook.com/TransMSVTracker , Transgender Violence Tracking Project) for some "RLE", when the "real life" part will come naturally anyway as a result of the transition process. When the butterfly is ready, the cocoon will open.

it must be much nicer where you live, ive just been to the shop, there were some chavs out side, if they notced i was a transexaul, the chaces of me geting my head kicked in were very high indeed.

There's a lot of thoughtful replies on here, things I hadn't considered and lots to think about. But, I still very much stand by the stark statement below:

I'm scratching my head a little and wondering how on earth the life of a pre-anything transexual women can be anything like a cis-women? As there are few similarities (as society will not recognise your femininity), the very concept of "trying your target gender out" in the real-world, is rendered completely pointless. As your experience will not bare much resemblance to what a cis-woman or passing transexual might have.

Ultimately, I think that RLTs are seriously flawed concepts, and are very dangerous to the individual and potentially damaging to the movement as a whole.

I wholeheartedly believe in checkpoints, rigorous analysis and gate-keeping in order to guard against people making mistakes, not taking responsibility and then sueing the medical establishment to cover their tracks. Transition and gender exploration are complex, they take time, they need time and they need logical rational steps to be taken to ensure that as much careful thought, planning and personal insight has been poured into the decisions and action, as possible.

However, RLT and RLEs are not the right way of going about enforcing gate-keeping in order to promote responsibility. Gate-keeping should involve continuous assessment in a safe environment (hospital, clinic, at home etc) at every step of the process.  So that the patient can explore what they feel they want and need to do, without being put under highly stressful conditions.

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on February 17, 2014, 03:54:27 PM
There's a lot of thoughtful replies on here, things I hadn't considered and lots to think about. But, I still very much stand by the stark statement below:

I'm scratching my head a little and wondering how on earth the life of a pre-anything transexual women can be anything like a cis-women? As there are few similarities (as society will not recognise your femininity), the very concept of "trying your target gender out" in the real-world, is rendered completely pointless. As your experience will not bare much resemblance to what a cis-woman or passing transexual might have.

Ultimately, I think that RLTs are seriously flawed concepts, and are very dangerous to the individual and potentially damaging to the movement as a whole.

I wholeheartedly believe in checkpoints, rigorous analysis and gate-keeping in order to guard against people making mistakes, not taking responsibility and then sueing the medical establishment to cover their tracks. Transition and gender exploration are complex, they take time, they need time and they need logical rational steps to be taken to ensure that as much careful thought, planning and personal insight has been poured into the decisions and action, as possible.

However, RLT and RLEs are not the right way of going about enforcing gate-keeping in order to promote responsibility. Gate-keeping should involve continuous assessment in a safe environment (hospital, clinic, at home etc) at every step of the process.  So that the patient can explore what they feel they want and need to do, without being put under highly stressful conditions.

~               ~                 ~

A non-passing, pre HRT transwoman is potentially going to lose their job and counter nothing but abuse in a RLT. This negative experience may simply force them back into the closet, or (at best) simply make them live through an awful time.

As for using RLT to try to get potential trans* patients to realise the gravity of their requests - instead of the RLT, potential patients for GRS or hormones should undertake psychiatric tests and signed legal papers stating "I am of sound mind, and I understand the consequences of my actions. I have been fully informed of the potential effects of my actions and on this basis, I take full responsibility as an adult over the age of 18." This would be the same sort of declaration you have to sign when writing a will. Your not expected to take a death RLT test in order to test whether you really want to give your money to that person or not.

RLTs are simply an easy way for state-funded medical establishments to reduce the amount of people claiming treatment. Which is why if you go private, there are no RLTs'. Its simply about reducing costs. Its not about care.

~               ~                 ~

Plus I don't like being treated like a little kiddy. I've had a psych evaluation - I'm perfectly sane. And, as I've discussed at length with the NHS, I understand the conequences. If I get this wrong after all this, then its my own fault. This is adult responsibility.

The nhs has a legal duty of care, part of this care includes the RLE, this is set down by nice guidelines etc, working in the NHS my self i've seen things from both sides. The doctors are trying their best to help you, really they are.
From my experience i can honestly say the single most important thing about transitioning at least for me was getting FFS, it changes the way people treat you completely and utterly.

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on February 17, 2014, 03:54:27 PM
I'm scratching my head a little and wondering how on earth the life of a pre-anything transexual women can be anything like a cis-women?

Both myself and others I know personally have done it. I know someone who is doing it right now. She has socially transitioned and has not even bothered approaching her GP yet because her wife will not let her.

In my case I began RLE 15 months before I started hormones and my female life was firmly established at work, with friends and with family. It can be done, but it requires work. Dress appropriately, act appropriately and reduce male overtones in your voice and people become accepting. How accepting? Enough that when out I had no problems in female spaces such as toilets, locker rooms and changing areas.

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on February 17, 2014, 03:54:27 PMUltimately, I think that RLTs are seriously flawed concepts, and are very dangerous to the individual and potentially damaging to the movement as a whole.

I would argue the opposite, that the lack of confidence many trans people start with will be perpetuated into their new life robbing them of the self confidence needed to build a better life. I would be in favour of seeing them receive mentoring and help in starting their RLE and I have helped people myself. All some of them need is simple advice or just for you to be there beside them. Too many of us are left on our own to get on with it and it does not have to be that way.

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on February 17, 2014, 03:54:27 PM
A non-passing, pre HRT transwoman is potentially going to lose their job and counter nothing but abuse in a RLT. This negative experience may simply force them back into the closet, or (at best) simply make them live through an awful time.

It depends on where you are. In some parts of the USA it seems that the law prevents you from being tarred and feathered but that is about it. In the UK, the minute you ask your GP for help you get legal protection and it would be a very foolish employer that would risk firing you.

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on February 17, 2014, 03:54:27 PMAs for using RLT to try to get potential trans* patients to realise the gravity of their requests - instead of the RLT, potential patients for GRS or hormones should undertake psychiatric tests and signed legal papers stating "I am of sound mind, and I understand the consequences of my actions. I have been fully informed of the potential effects of my actions and on this basis, I take full responsibility as an adult over the age of 18." This would be the same sort of declaration you have to sign when writing a will. Your not expected to take a death RLT test in order to test whether you really want to give your money to that person or not.

I am sorry, but that is a legal cop-out. There are people who will sign anything regardless of consequence. Besides, you are only changing one set of gatekeepers for another by allowing someone to assess if you are legally or medically competent to understand the consequences of such a declaration. What if they say no? You will be fighting lawyers rather than doctors and if you thought transition was expensive....

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on February 17, 2014, 03:54:27 PM
Plus I don't like being treated like a little kiddy. I've had a psych evaluation - I'm perfectly sane. And, as I've discussed at length with the NHS, I understand the conequences. If I get this wrong after all this, then its my own fault. This is adult responsibility.

This is not about treating you as a little kiddy. This is about making sure that you do not have any other problems that might look like gender dysphoria. They cleared you of that and forwarded you on to those who can help you. You are lucky that you understand adult responsibility because there are a lot of adults out there who do not.

It's important for all the reasons. Anyone who thinks that making the decision to use body-modifying and DNA manipulating chemicals, permanently modify the most nerve-ending dense area of the human body, and/or cutting away at their face like a jigsaw puzzle without a serious test of 'is this right for me in the real world'. is either immature, entitled, delusional, or a combination of all three. This is not a game and it's not something you get the hang of in a day, a week, or even a couple of months. Hell, even a couple of years is a stretch but a little 'ol year? Really?

Anyone whining about that is just plain impatient... and probably some of those other things.