Quote from: Northern Jane on February 27, 2014, 06:51:31 AM
At 15 my mother hauled me off to a shrink who suggested I be put on testosterone to "make a man of me", against my will if needs be! He also suggested 'aversion therapy' and even a lobotomy if necessary to break me of the 'delusion' that I was/should have been a girl.

*Shudders*

Amazing how medical arrogance can lead to treatments that are harmful and destructive instead of therapeutic.

About 10-15 years ago I was into weight lifting, trying to man myself up. There were over the counter substances (steroid precursors) you could buy that would convert into testosterone, such as the well known androstenedione that got baseball player Mark McGwire into trouble, or the more potent 19-Norandrosterone which is what I was taking (it was perfectly legal when I bought it, but it is a felony to buy or possess those substances now). Over a period of a few months I saw rapid muscle development. I also had typical male oily skin and guy funk, and I was quite aggressive - typical body builder on steroids behavior. Interestingly, one of the possible side effects of taking those substances was increased breast development in some individuals, due to excess testosterone being converted into estrogen. They sold another pill that stopped that side effect from happening, so I took that one too - after all, what guy would want boobs?? LOL......

I did not know that I was heading down the transgender/transsexual path at that time so I didn't know what symptoms to watch for. I can say that the extra testosterone that was running through my body did nothing to lift the mental funk that I was in; it just made me build muscle faster, made me stink, and made me far more aggressive. I looked in the mirror one day, didn't like what i saw (a sign of early dysphoria?), and stopped taking that stuff. It seems that when you are already mentally in the deep dark abyss, taking something that puts you further into the deep dark abyss goes unnoticed.

Fortunately I discovered that my mental funk (which eventually grew into dysphoria) was fixed by taking estrogen, not by amping up on more testosterone.

Ftm here... A few years ago I was on a high dose of estrogen for fibroids. Not only did it not help that, I felt craaaazzzzy AND I developed a pulmonary embolism, caused by the hormone (in addition to a previously unknown blood clotting disorder).
So extra e did not help me in any way, only caused major harm.

I certainly don't recommend transition unless all options are exhausted. Transition is documentable problematic. I can however say I know of no mtf that has been cured by t injection, of course that sort of defines mtf doesn't it?

Edit added. To be clear, I do know some mtfs that tried T first including one that used it for decades before transition anyhow.

Quote from: Northern Jane on February 27, 2014, 06:51:31 AM
I imagine the only effect for most people would be to make the dysphoria worse. For a MtF, watching yourself masculinize more rapidly and grow hairy would be awful!

It WAS a common practice back in the 1960s. At 15 my mother hauled me off to a shrink who suggested I be put on testosterone to "make a man of me", against my will if needs be! He also suggested 'aversion therapy' and even a lobotomy if necessary to break me of the 'delusion' that I was/should have been a girl. Despite being a timid and mild-mannered child, I stormed out of that session hollering "I'd rather take cyanide!" and walked the 10 miles home! That threat scared me more than anything else in life.

I hope I would of had the strength to do that because given the severity of my cross dressing and being severely  introverted and that's exactly what the doctor would of done.

I don't think it would make it better or cure it, my T levels were higher than normal for the normal female, so the docs gave me birth control which has low estrogen in it, to even me out and "make me better" in a sense, and all it did was make me more dysphoric when my will call them "man boobs" got bigger.

This is all anecdotal, but my experience has been that my T levels are directly related to the amount of dysphoria that I experience.  I was overweight my entire life, which I'm hypothesizing that it caused my T levels to be lower than normal due to being overweight.  About a year ago I started losing weight.  As my weight dropped, the amount of dysphoria I experienced rose.  I believe this was due to my T levels coming up from the weight loss.  I started HRT about 4 months ago, and shortly after starting, most of my dysphoria has completely gone away, which I believe is a result of my T levels dropping.  I don't have any lab work to back any of this up, but anecdotally, I believe T levels do have an effect on the dysphoria that I feel.

All;
This is an amazing thread and explains so much to me.  When I was about 38, my mother told me that the when she was pregnant with me, because of how she was not well overall (this was 1950-51 with food rationing still underway and with my mother in Germany with the occupation forces), she had been put on a treatment which I now believe was DES to try to ensure there was no miscarriages.

Over the years as I grew up from an early Age (in my case about 6) I always thought that I was a girl. Of course my parents never understood this and I went through awful periods including phyciatrist's, Electric Shock Therapy to cure me of this strange affliction and so much that I remember at about 14 that the way to survive was to become an Alpha male and bury what I now understand to be Gender dysphoria deep down in my psyche.

I then ended up with a number of relationships with a many women including two marriages and two other long term partnerships with women and whilst many ended up with separation and or divorce it all came down all too frequently to inability to function as a male and in a number of cases separation came about because I admitted to them being TS pleading to stay together.

Although I first transitioned in the 80s and lived full time as a woman for nearly 18 months and was on HRT, in those days no one organised blood tests. Then I ended up moving to Australia and was on HRT for another 6 months, but the longer I was on HRT the more my dysphoria left me. I had virtually no libido and the urge to dress as female basically left me. I slowly slipped back into my male self.

Although underlying it all was this bubbling undercurrent of dissatisfaction with my lot. I overcompensated all the time being seen as passionate about my work and other activities. The years slipped by for me.

A year ago  other events triggered my dysphoria again, with an urgent need to transition. I already had my first letter and notes from Charing Cross and diagnosis as Transgender, found my way to Susans.Org and I presented fully as a woman for my first sessions with my Transgender GP and Therapist (after recommendations from Cindy and others of who to see) and after blood tests was found to have very very low T levels, in fact only just above natal female levels. T2.8, my endocrinologist put me back on Provera

Now after a year on only E, (dosage doubled twice)  my T levels are almost non existent less than 0.5, I am progressively becoming more feminized, beautiful skin, rounded bottom , hips and B Cup breasts, hair is growing on my bald spot and body hair is diminishing. Male trousers no longer fit - I have split two pairs already  (the hips, thighs and bottom are too big, so I now just wear women's jeans) I am also frequently out and about socialising as Judith and I am rarely read as I have no Adams Apple, very small hands and feet  and with nails and toenails varnished and being well made up and conservatively dressed ( I had a colour analysis done a few years ago to help me with my dress colours) , so I generally pass very well. It helps that that I have a good voice range too,  but over the last few months as I have become more feminine in appearance my dysphoria has started  to dissipate  with no longer the urge to fully transition.

So I back in limbo again!

So I have just read Ann Vitale's artyicle and I reckon this sums me up completely.

So not sure where that leaves me.

One thing though is that E leaves me feeling very calm and contented, vulnerable, maternal, feminine and now seemingly attracted to both men and women, but I seem to swing from wanting to be the female in a relationship with a man to be cared for and looked after  to being this "middle" person neither female, nor male, where the urgency has gone. Sort of like Padma explained it to me.

Hugs

You have described my current situation. E leaves me feeling very calm, very centred and in complete equilibrium.  My interest in or need to transition has largely disappeared but nevertheless I am slowly feminising and becoming neither male or female.  The severe dysphoria has gone but returns with a vengeance if I reduce the E dosage. So, very much like you, I don't really know where that leaves me but it doesn't seem to matter.

My focus is now on enjoying and understanding my current state and any future change or travel that comes my way or that I elect to embrace.  I have become quite philosophical if not spiritual re my situation - my ego seems curiously absent.  I am no longer focused on passing or meeting the expectations of others.  This feels to be the right place for me at this time in my life.  I feel blessed, some degree of trepidation but mostly excitement and genuinely appreciative for this rich and unexpected life.