Hi Bubblegum,

A few tidbits for you:
1.  Male craniofacial growth can continue to the age of 21 to 25.  Aside from that, some of the facial differences are due to fat distribution.
2.  A careful diet relatively low on protein along with a good cardio exercise regimen will minimise increase in build.
3.  Low dose HRT may help achieve your aims.  There will be the risk of infertility and impotence, but cessation of medication during the early stages usually will reverse it.
4.  Getting rid of the beard permanently will help.

Hope that helps.

Quote from: luna nyan on March 19, 2014, 08:31:31 AM
Hi Bubblegum,

A few tidbits for you:
1.  Male craniofacial growth can continue to the age of 21 to 25.  Aside from that, some of the facial differences are due to fat distribution.
2.  A careful diet relatively low on protein along with a good cardio exercise regimen will minimise increase in build.
3.  Low dose HRT may help achieve your aims.  There will be the risk of infertility and impotence, but cessation of medication during the early stages usually will reverse it.
4.  Getting rid of the beard permanently will help.

Hope that helps.

Those are great advice!
Thank you for sharing them in such an easy to understand-way.

If I could do hormone transition without becoming impotent I would so do it.. That would just be.. perfect.

Quote from: Feather on March 19, 2014, 09:18:54 AM
If I could do hormone transition without becoming impotent I would so do it.. That would just be.. perfect.

A very low-dose HRT might work. Speak with an endocrinologist to be sure though.

Quote from: Feather on March 19, 2014, 09:18:54 AM
If I could do hormone transition without becoming impotent I would so do it.. That would just be.. perfect.

It's possible to have a sort of androgynous hormone mix.  I've been on low dose for 2 years now and things still work downstairs, although I'm likely to be infertile by now. My E levels are low for female, and my T levels are low for male.

I have a post somewhere on my low dose experience which you might find helpful.

Quote from: luna nyan on March 20, 2014, 05:08:03 AM
It's possible to have a sort of androgynous hormone mix.  I've been on low dose for 2 years now and things still work downstairs, although I'm likely to be infertile by now. My E levels are low for female, and my T levels are low for male.

I have a post somewhere on my low dose experience which you might find helpful.

Isn't it dangerous to be low in both male and female hormones? We need hormones to function properly and being low in both male and female hormones doesn't sound very healthy.

Quote from: 930310 on March 20, 2014, 08:02:24 AM
Isn't it dangerous to be low in both male and female hormones? We need hormones to function properly and being low in both male and female hormones doesn't sound very healthy.

Not really, I'm on full feminizing HRT and use a small amount of T cream to maintain libido just as many mature genetic females do that want to maintain their sexual interest and drive.
   

Quote from: Shantel on March 20, 2014, 09:22:59 AM
Not really, I'm on full feminizing HRT and use a small amount of T cream to maintain libido just as many mature genetic females do that want to maintain their sexual interest and drive.
   

Yes, but you are on full feminizing HRT. Luna is low in both male and female levels.

I'm in a similar boat of identifying as neither male nor female and wanting to stay androgynous looking. In my case, I've always had below normal male testosterone, which seems to have continued falling as I got older until a point came a few years ago where I developed most of the symptoms of acute hypogonadism. I had absolutely no joy getting treatment on the NHS (something that seems to be a very common experience among hypogonadal males), and so I've ended up self medicating, using a combination of fertility drugs and womens HRT bioidentical hormone creams. It's certainly made me feel a lot better than I was, but I don't know whether that approach would be what you're looking for - it seems to be making me more male and more female at the same time, if you get my drift. I'm using half the dose of womens HRT progesterone cream along with small amounts of estriol cream, as a way of getting the psychological effects of female hormones without much in the way of feminising effects. I'm also taking a fertility drug called HCG to keep my testicles doing their thing.

Quote from: 930310 on March 20, 2014, 08:02:24 AM
Isn't it dangerous to be low in both male and female hormones? We need hormones to function properly and being low in both male and female hormones doesn't sound very healthy.

There is a range of values for both T and E.  My levels are on the low acceptable side of both.  Yes, if you have no gonadal hormones then your risk of osteo becomes high.

In spite of low dose, I have experienced some degree of feminisation.  I really should get round to updating my low dose thread, it's been 6 months since the last update.

My dosages are half the minimum usually given for transition, for reference.
I'm at a happy place right now.

The ratios of your hormones is important, along with being in an acceptable range.
They do serve a purpose and need to be in those ranges or close.
You also have to help your Dr define just what ranges you're looking for.
It depends on what you're doing, sometimes they can adjust what is the right range for you.
Ranges are based on normal averages and we are not average.
I took my low dose to full dose levels, didn't find any benefit for myself, but I was looking to lessen the dysphoria.
Cutting back by halves until I was back at the original low dose was OK, but I halved them again and found they worked just fine for what I wanted.
I have made further refinements over time. I can pretty much decide if I want or need an little more or less of this and that.
But it took a long time to get used to doing this and I certainly don't recommend anyone to do that.
It may be because I am on such a low dose that a little goes a long ways.

This being said, there is no standard low dose, it is what works for you. If a lower dose works, use it.
You have less unwanted side effects and you can maintain the ranges you should have easily this way.
But it will take a few months of trial and error to achieve this. But that's better than just going along with whatever they give you.
It's always up to you to define what dose of not only hormones and blockers are right, it's this way with most meds.
Doctors can only give you what is considered the average dose needed for anything.
It's your input that allows them to adjust them to fit you.
Less unwanted side effects if you take the minimum amount that you're comfortable with.
Ativan

Im guessing low level T blockers or something similar to Puberty blockers might be the answer or maybe estrogen without blocking T would work you will probably need to talk to a doc who specializes in trans health or an endocrinologist (hormone specialist) to get the right information for you.  Good luck. 

I agree with you Kinkly. You should always consult an expert on this kind of medicine. I wouldn't want to just get a cardiac arrest or so just because I OD'd or LD'd.

I'm going to see my Dr today to discuss how the changes we have made and the ones I'm allowed to make.
I wouldn't be able to do this without the expertise of my Dr.
To try and do it on your own is a fools errand. There are far to many things that can and do go wrong.
You're basically using drugs that were designed for something else and are using the side effects from them.
If you think you can figure it out better than they can, you can have an honorary degree in hormone treatment.
Not likely to happen. But they can only work with you if they know what is going on and the only way they will know is if you tell them.
They will work with you. If they don't, move on to one who will. They are priceless in helping you to stay healthy.
The more you help them, the more they can help you. It's simple enough.
Anything else is a complicated mess of misinformation that will effect your body in ways you don't want.
They are there to make sure you are going to be able to stay healthy. Use them. They like that kind of stuff.
It's one of the reasons they became Drs in the first place.
Ativan

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on April 03, 2014, 10:41:17 AM
I'm going to see my Dr today to discuss how the changes we have made and the ones I'm allowed to make.
I wouldn't be able to do this without the expertise of my Dr.
To try and do it on your own is a fools errand. There are far to many things that can and do go wrong.
You're basically using drugs that were designed for something else and are using the side effects from them.
If you think you can figure it out better than they can, you can have an honorary degree in hormone treatment.
Not likely to happen. But they can only work with you if they know what is going on and the only way they will know is if you tell them.
They will work with you. If they don't, move on to one who will. They are priceless in helping you to stay healthy.
The more you help them, the more they can help you. It's simple enough.
Anything else is a complicated mess of misinformation that will effect your body in ways you don't want.
They are there to make sure you are going to be able to stay healthy. Use them. They like that kind of stuff.
It's one of the reasons they became Drs in the first place.
Ativan

Believe me, I can attest to this from personal experience!

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on April 03, 2014, 10:41:17 AM
They are there to make sure you are going to be able to stay healthy. Use them. They like that kind of stuff.
It's one of the reasons they became Drs in the first place.

If only everyone saw things this way.  Too often I watch people go counter to good sound advice and basing their treatment decisions on hearsay and mob hysteria.  A health care worker who has passion for their job will only have your best interests at heart.

Just a quick follow up to my visit to my Dr who takes care of my HRT treatments.
We spent fifteen minutes discussing options and how my life is going all the while she was giving me a routine checkup.
And a routine checkup with her is looking for any adverse effects that I might be having, it's pretty thorough in itself, these checkups.
We discussed what blood work she is interested in seeing, sometime over the next few months before I see her again.
We spent more than enough time discussing what options, yes options, of what I could do if I so desire.
I did indeed change one thing, I upped one of my meds. I could have gone farther in upping the dose, but chose, I chose, to up it only to what I feel comfortable in doing.
It was a simple straight forward conversation, in between talks about my general well being, and what medical things that have happened since I last saw her.
One of which was the story of what it took to get a simple prescription for a bacterial infection in my lungs.
It led to being in the ER under the assumption I was possibly having a heart attack.
Turns out I'm healthier than I was a few years ago when they ran similar tests...
This lead her to ask if she could access the records from the blood-work they did then.
As it turns out, it's also valuable information for her as to my over all condition, which is in remarkably good cardiac condition.

So, you see, it's as easy as just sitting down and talking about what is going on and about what options, and there are a lot, of what I, me, myself, would like to use.
She's there to make sure she knows what is going on to be able to give me those options and still be able to remain as healthy as I am.
And I am healthier, thanks to her suggestions as to what I needed to do over the last few years of using HRT.

How hard is that to do?
I also let a student join in, as she really wants to learn more about people like me.
So she can keep us healthy, people like me, in the future.
I made her ask the tough questions, and told her why she is going to be so valuable to people like me when she takes her turn at helping us.
It was great fun for me, as well as my Dr and the student.

It's a simple thing to do, just talk to your Dr, they are there to keep you healthy.
They are not the gatekeepers, unless you start to lie to them, then of course they can't help you and they are the gatekeepers you are so determined to make them out to be.
They're not.
The gatekeepers are the politicians and religious groups that want to play DR at your expense.

There isn't a better time in history than right now to trust and work with a good DR when it comes to your Trans health.
It can only get better by talking to them and following their suggestions for you.
They understand that each person is different and their needs are going to be different.
How hard is it to help them to help you?

Maybe that wasn't so quick, but that's the point.
You need to be thorough in your quest to be who you want to be.
Anything else is nothing more than conspiracy theories about the evil Drs that are none existent.
Except for those ones who work out of the trunk of their cars or in their homes and back alleys.

Find a good Dr, it may take some time, it may take a few more miles, but anyone else is doing nothing for you but risking your life on BS information.
Soon to be leaving these pages,
Ativan

Apart from a low dosage of Spironactalone.

The most effective way is cosmetic surgery, and increasing your makeup skill.

E.g. Pete Burns age 45-something? No hormones, plus I think he had a body building phase, and opted for pectoral implants rather than breast implants.

Quote from: Bubblegum on March 11, 2014, 10:17:55 AM
@georges: I'm glad that things worked out for you so well. Wish my doc was as understanding as yours. But mine would probably dismiss my woes and send me home. That miserable sob...

Ultimately....nope. I didn't go for hormones. I was hiding that from my mother till she found it out. She shouted at me for doing such a thing,because she was scared that i might had a high-risk of cardiac arrest or such a thing.

Good news though are,that i've been practicing lately, to shave correctly in order to avoid cuts....

Anyway...i'm gonna keep on waxing....and hope one day i'll have no body hair...it doesn't matter the method,but i want to feel good with my body and not avoid to check myself in the mirror when i'm shirltless....imagine that because i don't have every day the time to shave my body i tend to wear shirts tied up to the neck,even in hot weather, so i will feel more comfortable when i'm outside