Quote from: JamesG on May 19, 2014, 11:51:48 AM
But most men have the potential to be rapists given the right circumstance. It's just a fact of life.  It's not "fear", it is being realistic and aware.

This is somthing that it hate. why?
Because wether its true or not is irelavent. What is relavent is that it NEEDS to be treated as though it is.

Because its safer to assume a nice guy is a creep.
Then assume a creep is a nice guy.
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Glad your ok grace. Ive been in a similer situation myself. But it still doesnt compare to the setting of yours.

Thanks for your replies and well wishes everyone. I was going to respond individually but there are so many I would be at the keyboard forever.

Thanks for the suggestion of the ultra bright mini torch, I think there's a place nearby that I can buy one. Definitely getting a whistle. I wouldn't want to resort to using my male voice unless I really needed to - could result in an even worse outcome. I guess that if he had grabbed my hair he would have gotten a real shock when it came off in his hand.

I had actually thought, up until now, that I had a pretty good danger radar ("dange-ar"??!) and had been quite good at avoiding unpleasant people and situations. I suppose what I hadn't taken into account is that presenting as a 6'3" man was a pretty good anti-danger mechanism in and of itself, the same apparently may not apply as a 6'3" female. Clearly I need to retune my dange-ar to take into account that some men can be very unpredictable when it comes to women and act in ways that are sudden, threatening and random (whether they see it that way or not).

I did think about reporting the incident but I saw so little to be able to report - a tallish, indian accented man, who was smoking a cigarette, appearance and clothing unknown. 

So yes, I'll be much more careful now. I knew that unwanted and creepy advances were a sad fact of being a woman in the public space but it's still a shock when it happens.

Get the Storm Safety Whistle.



Loudest. Thing. Ever. It is unbelievably piercing.

Coined as the Worlds Loudest Whistle for a reason.

Quote from: JamesG on May 19, 2014, 11:26:14 AMMost rapes are "Crimes of opportunity."

According to reading that I have done over the years in multiple sources, most sexual assaults are NOT crimes of opportunity. Most rapes are planned. Perhaps you have some misunderstanding of what a crime of opportunity actually is?

Yeah the majority of rapes and sexual assaults are committed by men that the woman already knows.  It is sad

Quote from: ArchI instantly locked the doors, forgot about the CD, and got the hell out of there. One short, nerdy-looking fellow in a froofy Swedish car is an easy mark for two guys like them, but that was my SECOND thought. My first was not a thought at all but the usual warning bells that I used to get when I thought I saw movement in the back of my car as I was approaching from across the parking lot.

Situational awareness at it finest. This is a survival skill for anyone, of any gender or none. I wish we lived in a universe where it wasn't necessary, but... not so.

Quote from: Ms GraceI wouldn't want to resort to using my male voice unless I really needed to - could result in an even worse outcome.

Yes it could -- I also wouldn't recommend profanity, even "[bleep] off!" It has the potential to escalate any situation. You want to aim for, even practice, "command voice:" Loud, confident, and very firm.

Quote from: Arch on May 19, 2014, 09:36:12 PM
According to reading that I have done over the years in multiple sources, most sexual assaults are NOT crimes of opportunity. Most rapes are planned. Perhaps you have some misunderstanding of what a crime of opportunity actually is?

Planned as in the perpetrator set out to commit (premeditated), but the actual commission of it relies upon the right conditions, a suitable victim, seclusion, sufficient intimidation or physical overmatch, etc. That is what I meant.

Quote from: JamesG on May 19, 2014, 11:51:48 AM
But most men have the potential to be rapists given the right circumstance. It's just a fact of life.  It's not "fear", it is being realistic and aware.

I don't think that is fair to consider most men a potential rapist even given the right circumstances. I think most men would never even think of doing that. It's almost like saying that all women are potential ax murderers because of Lizzy Borden and we know that isn't true. Don't we hate stereotypes and labels? There are crazies out there and I really just don't think we can judge everyone by a few crazies that make it into the news. Being vigilant is always good and being aware of what is going on around you but when you get to the point that you see everyone as a potential hazard and get jumpy, that's not good. We worry about being clocked? Well being jumpy and acting nervous and scared will get you clocked by a predator as easy prey. Carrying protection is good but be careful. . Tase someone or pepperspray somone just because you percieved them as a threat and they didn't do anything you get assault charges. God forbid shooting someone by accident or jumpiness.

Being realistic is seeing potential situations happening and being prepared for it but not suspecting every man or anyone for that matter of having rape, murder and mutilation on their minds. I have been in my fair share of extremely bad places that cops wouldn't go into alone.

BTW Ms Grace, that was a potentially bad situation and you were vigilant. I still say honking was innocent. Turning around was a little wierd and would have gotten me a little suspicious and following you into the park was plain creepy, But you zig zagged home and watched your back and that was definately a good thing to do.

I don't want to derail this thread (and I'm more concerned about Grace's well-being), but I agree with Jess42.  Tarring 50% of the population with the same brush is counterproductive.  One of my best friends were brought up to fear strangers and be wary of men, but that didn't stop her from getting raped.

It's wise to exercise caution and look out for threatening signs, but making blind assumptions because of a person's dangly bits won't help you at all (though if a guy has his cock out, or a woman is waving a dismembered cock at you, then yeah, that's quite threatening).

 

While I agree with people let us just be a bit cautious, I do not want this to become a slanging match about rape culture or of opinions about men that are clearly unwarranted.

Thank You

Cindy

Thanks Cindy.

As the OP can I also ask that the thread not be derailed by a "these guys are rapists", "those kind of guys are rapists", "this subset", "that subset", etc, discussion?. I mean I get it, you can never tell really. The situation last night was personally freaky enough without people talking about which percentage of the male population are "potential rapists", that weirds me out even more.

Going out into the park during the day light today was actually (and surprisingly) unnerving. I sort of replayed in my mind. "This is where I first heard and saw him; this is where I turned to face him; this is where I told him to go away; where did he disappear to?; where did he come from in the first place?" Very unsettling, but I hope that fades with time.

I have to say I was reevaluating what I was wearing. I know I shouldn't blame myself, and I wasn't but I was wondering "what signal was I sending?; it was hardly provocative, was it?" But I guess some women could dress in a potato sack and some guy would still get turned on. 

To be honest I think the signal was a woman by herself. No more no less. I would report it, as you know in Melbourne there have been recent stalkings, and a perp working where Jill Meghear was taken. I think the police have no problems in receiving information that they can collate, even if it is 'I was followed, I can't give a description but he frightened me'. We don't know what else has been reported or who else has had a fright in the same area.

I was warned very clearly when I got the Cindy car to be extremely careful where I parked and to be very aware of people around me and to report anything unusual.

I use to be a black belt in karate, but that is useless to me know as I just don't have the strength to disable a large person. We just have to accept that women by them selves are vulnerable, there is no reason to be frightened, but every reason to be cautious and to use the police force to aid us.

The police in Australia really don't like women being attacked and are willing to listen and act.

So glad you are safe

Hugs

Truly, it is good to be cautious and aware, but not paranoid, and report anything you deem as threatening and/or suspicious 

Just don't get labeled as a 'frequent flyer' by the police

Quote from: Ms GraceI get it, you can never tell really. The situation last night was personally freaky enough without people talking about which percentage of the male population are "potential rapists", that weirds me out even more.

Yes, it's the "can't tell really" part that makes it such a problem. FAABs grow up with the knowledge that no matter how strong they are, just about any adult male is much stronger, enough to overpower them. My male friends tell me it never occurs to them that any strange man is a potential threat; but women do have to live with that fear. It has nothing to do with whether any given man actually is a threat -- but the disparity in strength means that he could be. I've had many conversations with women about this, and for many, having some self-defense training, whether in martial arts, using a weapon, or both, is the one thing that has reduced the fear level. It's a huge confidence builder.

For me, this has been one of the few real benefits of growing up gender non-conforming. Being fairly tall and large-framed, dressing in men's clothes, and (they tell me) "moving like a man" all my life, I've been harassed on the street exactly once as an adult (and that was during a brief hippie phase when I had long hair :p). But that fear has always been present to some extent, even so.

Quote from: Ms Grace on May 20, 2014, 05:13:48 AM
Thanks Cindy.

As the OP can I also ask that the thread not be derailed by a "these guys are rapists", "those kind of guys are rapists", "this subset", "that subset", etc, discussion?. I mean I get it, you can never tell really. The situation last night was personally freaky enough without people talking about which percentage of the male population are "potential rapists", that weirds me out even more.

Going out into the park during the day light today was actually (and surprisingly) unnerving. I sort of replayed in my mind. "This is where I first heard and saw him; this is where I turned to face him; this is where I told him to go away; where did he disappear to?; where did he come from in the first place?" Very unsettling, but I hope that fades with time.

I have to say I was reevaluating what I was wearing. I know I shouldn't blame myself, and I wasn't but I was wondering "what signal was I sending?; it was hardly provocative, was it?" But I guess some women could dress in a potato sack and some guy would still get turned on. 

It doesn't matter what you were wearing. You were a woman alone walking in the park. Nothing more or nothing less and in no way your fault. Just be careful. For future reference though, pay attention where you go and what that place has a reputation for and how some people may make assumptions. Always walk with a friend or go the long way around and stay in the lights.

Oh God I'm just glad your okay, I was reading the first few lines and my heart was just going drum crazy. Now I feel scared about walking back from extra classes at night. Just a question, is it okay if I carried a stun gun around in my backpack from now on? Its not a crime is it?

Quote from: Jess42 on May 20, 2014, 03:56:56 AM
I don't think that is fair to consider most men a potential rapist even given the right circumstances. I think most men would never even think of doing that.

Ah.. but what exactly is "rape"?  Is it just the brutal sexual assault or is it after a few drinks and an especially persistent guy that pressures you into doing something you didn't want too? It's not black and white...

Quote
Being realistic is seeing potential situations happening and being prepared for it but not suspecting every man or anyone for that matter of having rape, murder and mutilation on their minds. I have been in my fair share of extremely bad places that cops wouldn't go into alone.

That is the context we are talking about here, the threat assessment when in vulnerable situation, not hiding behind the bushes at the coffee shop because, "OMG its..  a man!".   If you are walking thru a park in the middle of the night and the only other person around is a man (!) walking up on you from behind,  its a prudent thing to just assume he's got something unpleasant on his mind.  If he is stupid enough to come up to you and ask you an inappropriate question in that situation then he deserves to get a face full of chemical. IMO.

"If flies had machineguns, frogs wouldn't mess with them."

Quote from: ~Evelyn~Just a question, is it okay if I carried a stun gun around in my backpack from now on? Its not a crime is it?

It depends on where you're located. If stun guns are legal for non-law-enforcement types to own and carry, then it's fine.

But your backpack may not be the best place to carry a stun gun. If someone jumps you, or even threatens you, how are you going to get to it in time to do any good?

Your first line of defense is always to be aware of your surroundings, and to be careful about where you go, especially when you're alone.

Something I don't think has been mentioned in this thread: never walk around talking on your cell phone, texting, or doing anything on an ipad or such. All these devices not only make you blind to what's going on around you -- they also make you even more of a target; these days, people are regularly mugged for their smartphones and tablets.

All of that said, there's no need to live in fear. If you make a habit of taking the precautions mentioned in this thread (and again, I do recommend No Nonsense Self Defense as a resource for all of this), you will read much less like a victim, and much more like someone not worth messing with.

We are so resilient and yet so fragile, both as a women who have transitioned / are transitioning, and as human being. Similar to others who have posted, I have had to learn to deal with those all to frequent forms of harassment and threats to my wellbeing that all women experience, and attempt to identify in the moment which are really threats that are potentially physically or emotionally harmful to me. My reaction has become relatively automatic – don't appear afraid, shut down the situation with a light or caustic response, and identify how I will escape the situation should it escalate.

The event that Grace has experienced may be inconsequential one day and profoundly traumatic the next. I have learned through my own experience that the emotional consequence can be significant, running the gamut from anger to bouts of crying to full scale emotional paralysis. It seems only time will tell. I try to prepare myself for these sorts of confrontations, attempt to lean from how successful I was in the moment, and then watch for telltale signs that I need to talk to someone, be she a close friend or a counselor.

Quote from: JamesG on May 20, 2014, 08:40:13 AM
Ah.. but what exactly is "rape"?  Is it just the brutal sexual assault or is it after a few drinks and an especially persistent guy that pressures you into doing something you didn't want too? It's not black and white...
That is the context we are talking about here, the threat assessment when in vulnerable situation, not hiding behind the bushes at the coffee shop because, "OMG its..  a man!".   If you are walking thru a park in the middle of the night and the only other person around is a man (!) walking up on you from behind,  its a prudent thing to just assume he's got something unpleasant on his mind.  If he is stupid enough to come up to you and ask you an inappropriate question in that situation then he deserves to get a face full of chemical. IMO.

"If flies had machineguns, frogs wouldn't mess with them."

I want to respect what Cindy and Ms Grace want and not hijack this thread. But in relation to that first part, no means no and if something happens like that and a girl is violated or pushed or pressured into it then yeah that would be rape.

The second part and this goes for all females, a self defense class is priceless. Being able to use common items as a weapon if attacked, the tender place between the legs and a swift kick there is a guarantee that you will have a chance to get away. And never ever give up fighting back. Clawing the eyes, kicking, screaming, biting or anything to allow the chance to escape. Even high heels are really good weapons.