Tomorrow, my husband and I are going make-up shopping. I told him I want to help him look nice, and I do. I don't want him as her to look stupid. I have a desire to control, though; almost as if he were me when I was 13 and my mom finally allowed me to get makeup: "only something subtle, only to accentuate the eyes, and just some lip-gloss". I want to help, but at the same time I want to lock myself in my bedroom and cry. I want to be progressive and confident, but every time I look at him...this is so difficult.

Hugs Honey.

I know how difficult it must be.

There are no easy steps on this journey for anyone, particularly for the SO.

My heart goes out to you.

My Love

Cindy

I was on hormones for 7 months before my SO would take me shopping. It has not been easy for her at all. You're being pretty awesome IMO.

Katrinka, 100% agree with the "pretty awesome"!

It's a rough process for a spouse.  I don't know how anyone who stays in the marriage manages - it really is heroic and far beyond what any of us expect.

So please, take the time to be upset and cry and be frustrated.  You're allowed to do that.

And don't worry about the control issue either.  You're the expert!  I'm eternally grateful that my spouse sometimes "controls" what I wear and how I look, because it means she cares that I don't go out of the house looking ridiculous.  Many of us have the tendency, at first, to put on far too much makeup and go far too feminine with the clothing and general appearance.  Baby steps are just fine.  The important thing is that you're still together and working on this massive change as a couple.

I wonder if I should put all the pictures I have of myself with my husband in a box or the trash. I have our wedding picture at my desk at work; I don't even recognize the people in that photo. It's almost like they just came with the frame. Maybe if I don't see "him" all the time, I'll be able to just see her. I wish this wasn't happening. I really, really wish this wasn't happening. Thanks for thinking I'm being "awesome" because I'm not feeling awesome at all.

Quote from: Katrinka on May 23, 2014, 10:34:17 AM
I wonder if I should put all the pictures I have of myself with my husband in a box or the trash.

I would box them. Some day you'll want them back. If my wife threw ours away I would feel rejected. Just say you're putting them away until you both adjust.

Keep the old photos.

You're not throwing your old life away and starting from scratch.  You're just moving to a new phase of the same relationship.

My wife is perfectly welcome to have our old photos on display.  They reflect some happy times that we had together.  I'm still the same person (almost), she's the same person (almost), and we can both be sad sometimes that life didn't work out exactly as we had planned.

Try not to fall into the trap of thinking of this process as losing your husband.  Easier said than done, I know.  That said, you're also allowed to grieve, although I'd caution against wallowing in grief and self-pity for too long.  Everyone involved has to look to the future, otherwise things will fall apart very quickly.

Katrinka

I can understand you feeling overwhelmed and that things are out of control.  Given your other posting re your husband's desire to commence low dose hrt and likely changes and the speed which you are also  feeling ... I thought that I should share my experience, and again every situation differs.

Pre tg  diagnosis I was consumed with dysphoria.  I often thought obsessively about feminisation, transitioning and cross dressing.  I wondered if I had some form of psychiatric problem leading to my sense of isolation and deviance from the 'norm'. 

Therapy helped, sharing with my wife helped, but the dysphoria became more and more intense.  The major breakthrough was the tg diagnosis and low dose hrt prescription - the impact of both were profound.  First I felt validated and accepted myself as tg.  Second the dysphoria all but disappeared.  Third I felt excited and keen to 'make up' for lost time.

This gave me and my wife time and reason to discuss and to seek insight/further understanding. I was excited and I wished to accelerate my progress while my wife was terrified and wanted certainty as to where this would lead or end.  I couldn't say where it would end or where it would lead. She couldn't and didn't want to participate in my growing feminisation but we both committed  to full and authentic communication and we also benefitted from gender, individual and couple therapy.

Then the strangest and most unexpected thing happened - we both discovered that we were both wearing 'binary blinkers' and had been co-opted by the 'binary police'.  Once this realisation occurred, a myriad of possibilities presented to us.  The opportunity and ability to be more expressive, more flexible, more present, centred and self realised attracted and drew us, and in particular me to to understand the rigidity, limitations of binary thinking which ultimately led me to identify as non binary.

As a non binary, a more androgynous presentation, manner, idiom etc led me to continue low dose hrt and to a life of joy, discovery and growth of which I had had only momentary glimpses prior to the tg diagnosis.

I guess what I am trying to say is that your partner's, your individual, and your combined journey will take you through unexpected experiences and places, and perhaps lead you to quite surprising destinations and conclusions  etc.  There is an opportunity to temper your speed, to test and to experiment, to reach a higher level of self expression and relationship etc but it does require seriously hard work and a commitment from you and your partner.  I wish you both all the very best in your journey together.

Safe travels

Aisla

It's understandable to feel the need to control a situation you have little control over. It's a perfectly normal response so don't beat yourself up about it. My philosophy has been to give my 2 cents but ultimately my wife makes her own decisions after taking my opinion into advisement. That's a lot to as someone who may not be ready for these changes. My advice is to come to a mutual ground for both of you. I don't believe treating your partner like you are a parent and they are your child would be the most beneficial way to go about it. But if you tell her what you're comfortable with and see if you can come to a commonplace it would help both of you. She will still have the ability to explore herself and you will be in on the conversation.

I would definitely not throw away your pictures. Seriously, you're not trying to forget the past ever happened, you're trying to move on to a future.

Today started out hopeful, but in the last five minutes turned back to reality.

Husband went to therapy appointment; invited me to attend. It was actually a bit productive. I thought we were making progress.

Went to Target. Bought makeup. He paid for his own. Is this a good or a bad step?

Went to dinner. Had fun.

Came home. Immediately got into a fight: She took pictures of her new spoils; I asked for whom the pictures were and was told of a special friend. I got yelled at. Now she is outside writing her friend instead of talking to me.

I'm sorry that such a nice day turned sour. Try not to get discouraged. What exactly was the issue with the new friend? If your spouse is anything like mine, there are going to be lots of new friends. Between the support groups online and in person she spends a lot more time on her phone than she used to. For me, especially when she wasn't out to people yet, I tried to remind myself that she needs people to talk to that understand what she's going through. She's going to want to share stuff and no I'm not going to know every new person.

As for her venting to her friend instead of talking with you. Maybe take those times as an opportunity to calm yourselves. Regroup and discuss things once you are both calm. Don't take it as a negative. Like this new friend is being chosen over you. Instead look at it as getting some space to get your thoughts together so you can have a calm rational discussion about what's going on. When we try to fight when tension is high than things are aaid that aren't truly meant, feelings are hurt, and it's not the most productive. Take that time to cool off first. It's been tremendously helpful for our marriage any time, but especially during this time.

The issue with the new friend is that my husband becomes secretive. He shuts me out because he doesn't like to see, hear, or acknowledge that this all makes me upset. He has a very difficult time understanding that I can help him and support him (because his happiness is the ultimate goal), but still cry and grieve at the same time. Considering how much he has already hidden from me, every time he sneaks away with his computer, I sense that he hiding something else. He is an excellent story-teller, so he can fabricate any version of the truth impeccably.

At the therapy appointment, the counselor told him that this journey is not about our relationship; that he has to stop worrying about losing me because we don't know the future. He has to stop lying to me. I don't think my husband wanted to hear that. He wants me to promise without hesitation that I am in this for the whole journey and that we will be two grumpy cat ladies for the rest of our lives. I'm not making any such promises, because I have absolutely not idea how I will react to some unknown future at some unknown time. She also told me to not avoid working on my own issues in my own therapy sessions, but I honestly have no room in my brain to think about my own needs anymore. My whole life is consumed with how to navigate this thing, and I have no concern about myself. I am barely existing anymore.

I didn't mind going makeup shopping; I told him we would do it together. It was weird, though. He pretty much wanted to get it over with as fast as possible. I was showing him all the different tools and things he'll need, and instead of taking it in thoughtfully, my husband would take each item and throw it forcefully into the shopping cart. The store we were in wasn't even busy, and there wasn't anyone else around us really, so he didn't need to hide it. Besides, I'm pretty sure anyone who saw us would assume I was dragging my manly husband on an annoying makeup mission and forcing him to tell me whether pink or red lip gloss would look prettier on me.

I found another support group; one that I can actually go and talk to people face to face. Hopefully, they won't all be bitter, angry people because I do not find that sort of attitude helpful at all. I have told two of my girl friends about this; one because I called her the night my husband threatened to commit suicide and I called 911, the other because I've known her forever,she is actually a trained MFT, and we always joked that some day we would be the crazy cat ladies living together. But I don't talk to them every day; they have their own lives and concerns and neither needs or deserves to be burdened with this. I just hope that I can find some direction with this new group.

Thanks for letting me vent. I am usually a very nice, positive person.

You come across as very nice person and I can tell you are positive. This is an incredibly hard so it's understandable you will struggle. You should not have to make any promises to your husband. I don't have a lot of advice but one thing I noticed is you are labeling things as good or bad. I do that too and my therapist has been trying to get me out of these absolutes.

I really hope your real life support group will help. I'm amazed at how supportive spouses like you can be.

K, as a wife to a newly "outed" tg, I hear you loud and clear. Identical feelings too. It's taken a fair amount of work to get to the "Whew, I think I'm kinda ok for this moment.". The feelings of uncertainty and loss will be there. I vacillate from being ok to not in mere seconds depending on my own hormone levels and what my partner is doing.

Re: shopping trip, I discovered some problems too after our first trip. Having us there to cover for them while shopping doesn't hide their shame at trying to be themselves but feel like they're being judged. My partner would hide things under other things in the cart even though they might've been things that I would buy. After a few trips, this started to disappear so you both have that to look forward to.

When it comes to the computer, I have chosen to look at it this way: he has his friends and I have mine. Sharing his haul is one way to dish about something feminine. I'll admit that I do that with my girlfriends when I manage to snag a superb purse! The other part of these new friends online is that they have a unique experience that they jointly share. I KNOW, how frustrating and isolating it is. One moment you have your husband who you know almost better than he knows himself and you are the best friends ever. Next, there is this other person and she is someone who looks familiar and feels familiar but is foreign and hard to be with (somedays more than others). Just as he's/she's found a new support network, use yours. As much as you might say this hasn't anything to do with you, it SO does.

When they tell us what is going on inside, our world as we know it, ceases to be. We learn to adjust for what goes on now and hopefully helps us learn to cope eith what comes in the future. Take the time you need to grieve for the future you thought you would have together and regroup for what it might be. Talk to your own friends. Those friends are the ones we'll gripe to about how absurd we feel in our positions and they will ground us in the knowledge that our worlds are jyst slightly more tilted now, not entirely upside down despite how we feel.

Crying helps. Doesn't matter if you do it alone, at a sappy movie, or in someone's comforting arms, but do. It helps relieve some of the emotional pressure. Then I, personally, think that you want to sit down and think of yourself. YOU are a part of the partnership. YOU deserve to have support, YOU deserve to be heard, and YOU deserve to be cared for as well.

How you want to proceed is up to you. Our partners can ask for our support, I have chosen to do the harder task, stand strong, stay here whatever the future may hold. I don't think leaving is the easy road, but a slightly less hard road. Walking away means that you feel that there is some other future for you that you don't forsee being in a partnership with your current pne is all. Changing genders aside, splits happen.

The last thing I wanted to sort of pass on is that life does settle down. The intensity won't always be set at blazing (ie. Wanting to rush into the hormones and things.) I think too, that once we hear of this need yo change genders that we forget that our partners still have fairly masculine thought-patterns. That is to say that, they don't think anywhere near like we do. Even full-on hormones doesn't change the thought pathways. Rushing through choices, not always thinking of others, and possible consequences (sorry, these are generalizations taken from a few tg friends!) I sadly have to say, is common as they are in the cis guys. Eventually, our lives settled into a slightly altered pattern and our problems now are your run-of-the-mill marriage/relationship types. (Guy thinking vs my thinking, usually!)

Sorry about the wall of text but I think I covered most of it!

Thank you. I appreciate the comments and advice.

Saturday and Sunday were pretty "normal" in that we had a really good time with really good friends and family. Yesterday, we had a family photo session; my husband did all the photos as "himself" and it was great, but I'm just wondering how he and his parents are going to feel when the pictures are developed and the person shown doesn't exist anymore. Sorry, but my mind keeps going there.

Today is the day we are doing a makeup lesson. It's like an early birthday present, I guess. His birthday is tomorrow.

We had a little moment of stress yesterday because we were at a pub, and I was waiting for the ladies room. A man walked out, and I must have looked surprised. He leaned in and said, "It's ok. I have a vagina." I just looked at him and said, "Really?" and he smiled. On the way home I told my husband, who said that guy was just being a perve and thought he was making joke. I asked my husband if he himself had thought about which bathroom to use, and he just got irritated and told me he didn't want to talk about it. I let it drop. But, then I spent most of the night obsessively wondering things like what will happen when he changes his name (because I won't be Mrs....anymore), what will happen when he tells his family and our friends, what will happen when he comes out to his job, what will happen when I have to take FML from my own job to care for him when he has surgery, how I am going to tell my own parents (who are awful people on the best day)...

He now has a number of Facebook friends from the MTF community and I wonder if that is sort of his subtle way of "coming out" since it's all public. Anyone can see what groups he joins and who he is friends with.

Anyway, I'm not really looking forward to the make up session today because I think that my husband, she, is going to like it too much. I don't get to make the choice, of course, because none of this is about me, but I am scared that I am just ushering him through the door to his new life.

Quote from: Katrinka on May 26, 2014, 08:34:43 AM
Thank you. I appreciate the comments and advice.

Saturday and Sunday were pretty "normal" in that we had a really good time with really good friends and family. Yesterday, we had a family photo session; my husband did all the photos as "himself" and it was great, but I'm just wondering how he and his parents are going to feel when the pictures are developed and the person shown doesn't exist anymore. Sorry, but my mind keeps going there.

Today is the day we are doing a makeup lesson. It's like an early birthday present, I guess. His birthday is tomorrow.

We had a little moment of stress yesterday because we were at a pub, and I was waiting for the ladies room. A man walked out, and I must have looked surprised. He leaned in and said, "It's ok. I have a vagina." I just looked at him and said, "Really?" and he smiled. On the way home I told my husband, who said that guy was just being a perve and thought he was making joke. I asked my husband if he himself had thought about which bathroom to use, and he just got irritated and told me he didn't want to talk about it. I let it drop. But, then I spent most of the night obsessively wondering things like what will happen when he changes his name (because I won't be Mrs....anymore), what will happen when he tells his family and our friends, what will happen when he comes out to his job, what will happen when I have to take FML from my own job to care for him when he has surgery, how I am going to tell my own parents (who are awful people on the best day)...

He now has a number of Facebook friends from the MTF community and I wonder if that is sort of his subtle way of "coming out" since it's all public. Anyone can see what groups he joins and who he is friends with.

Anyway, I'm not really looking forward to the make up session today because I think that my husband, she, is going to like it too much. I don't get to make the choice, of course, because none of this is about me, but I am scared that I am just ushering him through the door to his new life.

Yeah, there's a lot to think about. There's a lot of unknowns. It can be overwhelming and stressful and painful. In my own experience, it is sometimes very hard to discuss these issues with my SO even though she's the one I'm supposed to trust the most. I mean, it helps sometimes, to talk to strangers or people that have to deal with similar issues, like just venting on this board and stuff.

So, how was the lesson?

K, I hammered myself with an awful lot of the "what if" questions too. In fact, I still do because he is still changing as people are wont to do. The thing is how we percieve the situation and cope with our actions and the outcome.

Remember that when you pose the questions and he hesistates or gets upset answering that it's more likely that it's a difficult question with everything from pros and cons lists to plain old fear associated with them. They might seem pretty straight forward to us but are very problematic issues for them.

Those million miles-a-minute future thoughts we have will cause undue loss in hours and nights' worth of sleep and aren't doing us any favours. We found out by talking to each other in brutally honest conversations how our expectations/assumptions were so far from reality. Your partner will eventually see through the head-long rush that there is a process that will need to be followed to get to where he wants. Getting to where that is needs you to be present to make it a partnership still. You ARE a part of it and are most certainly affected by this whole thing. From start to stop if you're in it then you need to remember you are also important. My husband wasn't sure where it was all going when he came out to me and I jumped into hyperspace with my imagination of the end result. Needless to say, I was up crying inconsolably, feeling entirely isolated, and so very, very angry at him. When he found me crying one night and I explained what I was thinking, he sat me down and we finally talked through some of my key concerns which turned out to be his too.

I can't promise your story will be like mine, in fact, I know it won't but if you need a chat, I have loads to say (as evidenced above!) and time to read and listen. If we share the emotional load, maybe it will be lighter for both of us. Let me know:)

You did more than most. Seems you made more of an effort to save your relationship than your partner. You have a life to live too. You didn't give up. The rest happens. I hope you find happiness again. You don't deserve to be treated like this.

I was so fueled by rage last night; also helped by the copious amount of alcohol we had had during the day. I don't know what initially triggered me; I just remember yelling and telling him I hate him, calling him terrible names and being completely out of control. I woke up just as angry this morning as I was when I was finally able to get into my bedroom last night (he had locked the door, so I got a screwdriver and took the knob off). I feel like a crazy person; this is not who I should be. I should not be a drunk, rage-fueled monster hell bent on destruction. We had had a pretty good weekend until last night. I don't know what is wrong with me.  Today is actually his birthday, and couldn't even say anything nice to him this morning as we both got ready for work. I kept up with the anger, the insults, and the rage. I do have a therapist, and I have many books about TG and anger and depression; I have a  person I met through a support group who I just talked to for over an hour who confirmed that she had all the same reactions and behaviors I am. She eventually left her husband, though. I don't want to lose my husband, either to TG or my RAGE or insecurities. I think that I nailed the coffin shut last night, though. I don't know what to do. I am scared, confused, remorseful, so, so, so remorseful, alone, angry, and overwhelmed. I became a monster, a viscious, terrible monster. Why would my husband want to share any of this with me? I'm making it very clear I am not mature or supportive; I am succeeding in destroying our relationship by being abusive. I might as well have thrown things; in fact, I tried to punch him. I have never punched anyone, I have never been a physcial menace. I am losing my mind. I need help.

Maybe if you're able to see your own therapist it's a good time to schedule an early appointment. Perhaps a cooling-off is required at this moment where you both might want to look at what you each want for yourselves and then each other and come to the point where you either want to go forward together or start finding the paths to happiness separately. Do you have someone for marriage counselling as well as your own therapists?

I hear you on the anger thing though. I can probably say that the vast majority of SO's will understand your feelings. But the bottom line for me was: where do I want to go in my life and do I want him there? Theoretically I don't need him to exist, I can go on without him, but is that what I want. YOU are entitled to a life with happiness and a future you choose, whether it's with your partner or not. I needed to see past the anger to find the person I wanted to have in my corner to support me through the remainder of what I see is my life.

At these cross-roads where partners are looking at either going forward together or apart it might take brutal honesty to get to the heart of the matter. When dealing with a couple, it can be something that breaks the barriers that we've built over the years unconsciously. Either way you want to go, you will both have to sit down and figure out this moment before you go on.

Good luck K, I'm hoping that you're both able to find what you're looking for. Give me a shout if I can help at all.