Quote from: Jen on May 26, 2014, 07:52:57 PM
If you ever feel like you're lying, you should absolutely stop doing whatever made you feel that way.  If being open and out and proud makes you feel the most comfortable, then that is perfect, and you should do that.  For me, I have never felt like I was lying when told somebody I was a woman.  I don't personally feel guilt or worry about my chromosomes.  I don't feel particularly proud (or ashamed) of being trans.  I do not consider that to be part of my identity, more like an obstacle I had to overcome.  For me, telling everybody in the world I am trans would make me extremely uncomfortable, just as not doing that does for you.  The reality is, we are all different and should not prescribe a one-size-fits-all approach and I feel like this highlights that very well.

As a point. 
My post is not intended to cause shame for stealth choosers.
Or to change how they feel about their freinds.

But more to show that my choice has everything to do with me as a person, and how I as that person looks at life.

And to sugest that I choose what I choose, not because it is right or wrong, but because it IS right FOR ME.

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PS I felt a need to further clarify, to prevent miss understanding.

I got where you were coming from, and I hope everybody else does too.  And I hope they understand where I was coming from too.  We all deal with this differently, the way we frame and contextualize everything we feel.  Nobody is wrong.  Therefore, we should let people deal with their stuff the way that works best for them and never tell anybody one way is more right than another.  Which you weren't doing and I hope nobody thinks I was doing either.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 26, 2014, 12:33:18 PM
Allyda: Sounds like we're in agreement actually I said it was a big piece of the puzzle, not the whole thing.

Yea I'm sorry I misread your post and got the wrong idea. As I said I'm pretty much in agreement with most things you post. I just made a mistake as this is a touchy subject.

While as I said I've always been honest with my SO's, and close friends, I must confess I do daydream about just disappearing after my SRS to somewhere no one knows me and start anew. I then realize it wouldn't work because I do have friends and a few family members who've been very supportive and do care about me. I wouldn't want to worry them like that for one, I'm very secure in my femininity for two, and I'm not ashamed of who I am.

Best wishes always!

Ally

Quote from: Clare Manning on May 26, 2014, 08:16:15 PM
Being who we are appears to be the common denominator in this thread. Some consider that being a total woman is who they must be and that the only way to achieve it is through stealth. Others consider honesty, advocacy of transgenered or devotion to loved ones who they are and have decided to act accordingly. In any case, folks have apparently done a great deal of soul searching, and each has chosen a path that, though difficult, is true to who they aspired to be. I commend you, one and all.

Wisely said, Clare. I chose my path to be stealth and have no regrets. As many have said on here, nobody can be 100% stealth and I would agree with that.

I recently had a need to contact the Inland Revenue (tax) Office and knew that as soon as the person on the other end of the phone asked for my National Insurance number they would find it was locked and they would have to get someone higher up to unlock it temporarily to get the information they need and then relock it. They are too busy to look into the reason why it is locked so it no longer concerns me.

NI numbers are locked for a variety of reasons other than being trans, such as you are in a witness protection scheme, or my favourite one is you work for the Government. One clerk at a counter where this happened to me asked: "Has this happened before?" I replied: "Oh yeh!" to which she responded: "Oh, I bet you work for the Government!"

I replied: "I'm afraid I can't answer that."

The trick is to just be cool when these things happen. Don't panic!

Caroline
x

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on May 26, 2014, 12:33:18 PM
I'll point out is it really worth not friending family on FB just to keep a stealth status? I think that's pretty self centered if someone thinks it is. To just disappear from people you love to go 100% stealth. I couldn't do it...

I live as stealthily as I can under the circumstances. I couldn't have just moved away and start over because of responsibilities to help take care of my mom, but I wouldn't have left anyway. I have a lot of people I really love and care about and I'm like you, Alaina, I would have felt both deceitful and self-centered to just pack up and leave, so I decided to take my chances. Those closer to me I told very early on, and if they couldn't understand, I wasn't going to hold it against them, but I wasn't going to grovel for them either. I also told a few close friends and other family in e-mails and private messages over Facebook. I came out to the majority of my aunts, uncles, cousins and friends slowly on Facebook, first changing the spelling from Randy to Randi for about six weeks, which kind of gave some hint to most of them. Out of all my family and friends on Facebook, nobody except for one cantankerous aunt (I could use another, more colorful word for her) has ever called me by my old name or improperly gendered me, so that's been a win-win situation. I'm a heart on my sleeve woman, and with so many subconsciously feminine mannerisms and emotions throughout my life, and feminine facial features until my mid 40's, I don't think it was a tremendous shock to more than just a few. I live in stealth though, as much as I can, simply by not telling anyone I don't know that I'm TS. I've asked my friends and family not to divulge my status unless or until I give them permission. All I've ever wanted was to be a girl/woman, and the ever more relaxed laws and attitudes have done nothing to change that fact. And since I haven't been mis-gendered in more than 32 months (except for once by a seriously short, fat, jealous front office bitch at my doctor's office) I don't expect to face any problems passing in the future. You ladies will most likely notice in your futures that life and passing becomes easier the more you learn about makeup, clothes, voice, walk, mannerisms and other nuanced things that only time and becoming female can show you. Hugs, Mira

Quote from: Jen on May 26, 2014, 02:05:59 PM
I was 32, almost 33 when I started transitioning, and I definitely still cared what people think, and still do.  How people see me, how much I am liked, those kinds of things?  Idk if there is anything more important to me, even still.

O.O I saw pic of you the other day "I Think" and forgive me for making assumtions bases of how you looked but. I would of bett money you were no older then 22 now.

And yeah I care what people think about me too. but in alot of ways I think we all do. Even those who say they dont. ive been told I shouldnt care what people think about me anougth times to know that. Not caring what people think about you still tickes awesome boxes in the eyes of others.

No, never thought about it but it's not like I wear a say that says "transsexual" ether.

I still amaze people when I tell them I'm legally blind, and they had no idea.  I dont try to hide the fact, I'm just good at working with what I have.

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on May 27, 2014, 02:34:29 AM
O.O I saw pic of you the other day "I Think" and forgive me for making assumtions bases of how you looked but. I would of bett money you were no older then 22 now.

And yeah I care what people think about me too. but in alot of ways I think we all do. Even those who say they dont. ive been told I shouldnt care what people think about me anougth times to know that. Not caring what people think about you still tickes awesome boxes in the eyes of others.

Hehe I am young looking, for the time being .  I am 38 now.

Quote from: Isabelle on May 26, 2014, 05:55:43 PM
Ducks, you missed my point entirely and essentially paraphrased me. I love the internet.

Stranger things have happened Isabelle - sorry for somehow misunderstanding what you were trying to get across.  I guess we're in agreement? 

there is nothing wrong with choosing to be out as trans full time, but be aware that the choice is more limiting than being stealth.  At least as stealth you can choose who knows, as an out person, everyone will know regardless of your desire for them to know.  It is just a fact of life that people talk and spread interesting gossip.

Quote from: ButterflyVickster on May 26, 2014, 07:23:08 PM

TRIGGER WARNING

Why I Think stealth is counter praductive. (For me)

That need to be honest is a killer. The shame of hiding a part of who I am is what was pushing me over the edge.

For me, my transition is about being honest with myself and others. A lot of that means comming to terms that although I am a woman it is an XY woman.

I Also think that as people we need to feel loved. The love I got prior to comming out felt false. Felt they loved an act and not me.

Over time my dad is comming around. He still doesnt get it, but the other night he said goodnight darling. (somthing hes only ever called the female family)

He still often calles me by my old name, but recent happening go to show that to him I AM a duaghter he HAS alwas known as a son.

I Dont think I could ever feel as loved by anybody that doesnt accept me as an XY woman. I feel like hiding the nature of my birth from people would creat the same sence of false love. (that was pushing me over the edge)

Just as many people would say im not a real woman, I dont think I could see any body that doesnt know Im trans as a REAL friend.

I Dont adopt new behaviours to pass, I feel trying to pass as female is the same box a trying to pass as male to start with. I only want to be me.

I Know there is an element of safty envolved, but I fear stealth would make me the same risk to myself that transitioning is supposed to prevent.

And as long as we have REAL friends and REAL love that risk is greatly reduced. The only thing I need in adidtion to this is the love I have for myself.

I catch my self smieling in the mirror since I came out, And a lot of this is knowing that inspite of what I am, Im free to be who I am.

Despite of everything I hate about my self and society, I am PROUD to be trans. Im strong anough to face anything life throws at me, and happy knowing that should I die tomorrow, Ill die loved with REAL freinds knowing it will not be by my own hand.

This is what makes me happy.

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WARNING OVER

I respect how you view your own situation and can understand if this is the way you wish to carry on; however, I think very differently.  The day that I'm not just a transgender woman and actually viewed as simply a woman would be the best day ever for me.  In order for that to ever happen, I'll likely have to keep this a secret.  Let's face it, once people know your trans, to them you are just a tranwoman rather than a woman.  It happens all the time, and I'd rather avoid having this remain an issue in my future.  Sadly though, I'm a bit ashamed and embarrassed about being trans.  I shouldn't be that way, but I sort of am.  I mean, I'm okay with you all knowing it because you can understand, but I don't want the whole world to see me as trans.  Then again, I guess it would be like I'm trying to hide my scarlet A for the rest of my life.  Maybe it's not a healthy mentality for me to embrace.

Being ashamed of a truth about yourself, especially for something you have no control over, is not healthy.  It has nothing to do with being stealth or not, but is just a barrier to of being kind to yourself, being proud of yourself, loving yourself.  I don't know how to tell you to let go of it, I wish I did, but I hope you can find a way.

I think living stealth is as personal preference as living out and open. My GF is a steatlth MTF and I am stealth in that I am MTF too but in the closet with the door open enough and the light on that it doesn't take a genious or rocket scientist to figure it out. Really there aren't a whole lot of people that even come close to rocket scientist or geniuses.

But my whole deal is live your life the way you want. If you want and can be stealth, its your life. If you want to be open and an activist, definately you have my utmost respect. But I have always had a live nad let live attitude. I really have no right to tell someone what they should of or not. Or whther thye are right or wrong in those dicisions.

Quote from: Jen on May 27, 2014, 12:38:36 PM
Being ashamed of a truth about yourself, especially for something you have no control over, is not healthy.  It has nothing to do with being stealth or not, but is just a barrier to of being kind to yourself, being proud of yourself, loving yourself.  I don't know how to tell you to let go of it, I wish I did, but I hope you can find a way.

In my case, only time spent full-time while out and about will probably make me feel better about myself.  I think I have to see for my own eyes that the world isn't always bad as I fear.  And when I see it's not as bad and that people don't hate me so much, then it will become less of a barrier and I'll have more confidence.  It's just getting myself to let go so it becomes possible.  At least, this is the set of mind my therapist is trying to convince me of. 

But seriously, I don't want everyone to know about it.  I just don't think the "proud of who I am" mentality will ever be the way I see it.  Being trans is something that I'm going to have to cope with and learn to deal with as best as I can.  Sadly, letting everyone know that about me will only make coping harder because of discrimination and judgement.  The only area I'll ever be disclosing is with dating which sucks because it seems like most guys are unaccepting of us, at least for a serious relationship. 

Being proud of who you are actually has nothing to do with whether you tell people.  It's an internal thing.  The way I see it for myself is being trans is not my identity, it is a condition I was born with, that I have had to deal with and I am not ashamed, or proud, of being born this way.  I am proud of myself for finding the strength to deal with it though.  Shame gets in the way of inner-happiness.

I can tell I'm not being clear.  I don't know how to put it so it is.  Shame is not the reason i am stealth-ish,it's more that I don't think it is relevant inFo for many people to know.  Also that I don't want to be treated differently, and that I don't have the energy to carry a banner all the time.

Quote from: Jen on May 27, 2014, 01:27:44 PM
Being proud of who you are actually has nothing to do with whether you tell people.  It's an internal thing.  The way I see it for myself is being trans is not my identity, it is a condition I was born with, that I have had to deal with and I am not ashamed, or proud, of being born this way.  I am proud of myself for finding the strength to deal with it though.  Shame gets in the way of inner-happiness.

I can tell I'm not being clear.  I don't know how to put it so it is.  Shame is not the reason i am stealth-ish, that I don't think it is relevant is.  Also that I don't want to be treated differently, and that I don't have the energy to carry a banner all the time.

I definately understand you Jen.

Quote from: Jen on May 27, 2014, 01:27:44 PM
Being proud of who you are actually has nothing to do with whether you tell people.  It's an internal thing.  The way I see it for myself is being trans is not my identity, it is a condition I was born with, that I have had to deal with and I am not ashamed, or proud, of being born this way.  I am proud of myself for finding the strength to deal with it though.  Shame gets in the way of inner-happiness.

I can tell I'm not being clear.  I don't know how to put it so it is.  Shame is not the reason i am stealth-ish,it's more that I don't think it is relevant inFo for many people to know.  Also that I don't want to be treated differently, and that I don't have the energy to carry a banner all the time.

I get you as well, just having a hard time seeing it the same way.  Actually, I think we see it similarly with just a different twist.  I'm also proud of how far I've come and for having the strength to have made it this far.  However, other people and their negative opinions make me feel shame at times.  That's where we are different.  I think the more I positive experiences I have, the less I will fear or care I will have about what others think.  But as of right now, I don't want people in my future to know because I'm scared they will hate me or view me negatively or at least different than other girls.  I suppose there is an inner pride quality I have, but it gets destroyed or conquered quite easily when it's put up against judgmental people.  They sort of have the ability to control my feelings and emotions.  I guess what you are saying is that stealth should be more of a practical thing than it should be about hiding or fear nor should you let them control you.  I think that's a healthy thing and wish to get there one day.  For me it's a plan to strive for both practicality and to hide from all the pain someone could cause me, including inner emotional pain, by seeing me as trans.

But again, I'm speaking less from experience and more from internal fears.  I've only been laughed at and called a ->-bleeped-<- once in my life and had one old person say "eww" when looking at me.  Otherwise, my experiences have been fairly normal like any other person and most people seem supportive or nice.  Well, other than a few weird looks here and there.  I don't know. I just don't know what it's all going to be like once I go full-time.  It's all I can think about, yet I'm depressed as hell because I'm not allowing myself any sense of happiness in my life.  Well, summers coming and I keep working hard on my appearance, so it has to happen sometime soon.   

Yes, I know you have had some rough experiences so far, and not many good ones to offset them, so I can see why you have your frame of mind.  i hope you start having some affirming experiences soon.

For me, when I am outed, yes it is not shame I feel, it's fear–of physical harm and, equally, of being treated differently.  I wish I could sever my relationship with fear sometimes, I feel like I am under it's control far too much.  But I also do feel it is easier to handle yourself with grace when you feel fear than when you feel shame.  Grace and shame I think may be mutually exclusive.

Quote from: AnnieMay on May 25, 2014, 08:07:32 PM
Have you seriously considered a stealth life style? What are the reasons for your decision?

When I 1st admitted to myself that I am a trans*woman, I decided to go 'stealth-ish'. I moved 3 hrs away from everyone I knew, and told myself, "when I get there, I'll start living as a woman. #FAIL
I move to the lake of the ozarks and was introduce to some room-mates and neighbors as a male. I instantly froze my transition. So, for the last 5 months, I stayed living as a male.
I guess my bi/fem side shines thru tho, because 1 of the room-mates and 1 of the neighbors have asked me several times if i was/am bisexual/gay or even a crossdresser.
my answer was/is always, "What's it matter if I am, or not? Does that change who I am, or our friendship?"
over the last few weeks, i have shut down my 'male' facebook and meetme accounts and have came out from under the shadows as Madison.
I wrote an email to my best friend since 6th grade,  (he responded wonderfully) and texted with my cousin, (who has also been wonderful).
slowly I'm allowing people from my past to find my new fb page and decide to make contact or not. i've had several ppl msg me with"do i know you?" and i tell them..
Being honest with myself, and others i call "friends" is hard for me because of things in my past, but to me, i feel like it's a big part of my transition.

I still have not told my parents, but we're not close, so that's not high on my list of priorities..

for me.. i just can't live the lie anymore..

being 'Matt' and being 'Madison' was too much..

Quote from: learningtolive on May 27, 2014, 01:07:40 PM
But seriously, I don't want everyone to know about it.  I just don't think the "proud of who I am" mentality will ever be the way I see it.  Being trans is something that I'm going to have to cope with and learn to deal with as best as I can.

I dont want everybody to know it either.
Being proud (for me) isnt about being brave anougth to advatise it.

When I say im proud about being trans i mean, the kind of person i am because of it.
We all have to cope with it in different ways.
For jen its an obstical of a birth defect (sorta)
For me its about using it to show people that know me, that im not like the negative iimage we get.
To be honest if it wasnt for all the negative portrayal id live like jen. because it is just an obstcle to be overcome.
Its just i want to make it less of a struggle. And work towards society being less dangarouse if descovered.
And since how society views us is the bigger part of the struggle. I can only help with how society sees me.

The troubble is, as trans its not a choice between stealth or no stealth. It a series of choices we make in order to live as comfatable as possible. in this regard stealth or not we all do the same.

Its not about WHAT, alaways the WHY.