I've noticed a certain part of town along the public transportation I use has a lot of transgender people. I've noticed about 4 transwomen, but 3 of them I noticed because they had grown out their facial hair to have it zapped. The other one I don't know how I knew, but I just did even though she looked female. I confirmed because she was talking to her friend and they were talking about the number of trans people in the area. They clocked me, but I need a haircut because I look butch lesbian-ish.

Honestly if I'm confused as to the gender of someone I try gender neutral pronouns. If I think they are trying to present one way or the other I do try to gender them correctly.

You have to ride public transit to play the clocking game, thousands of people bored to death with nothing to do but scrutinize each other

I stopped playing when I bought my bike but it seems I'm still on the playing board for others to scrutinize.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 07, 2014, 05:58:57 PM
I don't worry about clocking other trans people myself. I am too busy living my life and shopping. I feel if you get to this point you are a little too obsessed about being trans. 

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 07, 2014, 05:58:57 PM
I don't worry about clocking other trans people myself. I am too busy living my life and shopping. I feel if you get to this point you are a little too obsessed about being trans. 

Don't think it has to do with this, you can be doing your every day thing and notice all kinds of things around you, this just happens to be one of many. You're not out looking for it (whatever the occurrence may be), it just so happens to come along and catch your eye and interest for maybe but a moment.

I've noticed a few trans either while out shopping as well as at work. The way I see it, if I could tell they were trans, then they weren't quite passing. Otherwise I wouldn't have noticed this oddity that fell borderline between the sexes, if she passed then she would have walked by seen like any other cis-gender woman. But why they got clocked by me, over-dressed, too much make-up on, really tall or big, overall facial features including beard shadow that of a man and uncomfortable looking, that unease that I remember having myself many years ago. Not that I care either way, just an observation as any other. Been there myself at the start. Can any other trans possibly clock me while I'm out there, possibly, but I don't care. They keep their mouth, I do the same, just another stranger passing by among many.

I have spotted one very tall woman, who I thought could be trans. But there again, we more easily notice because we know what to look for. And to be honest it's always very hard to be 100% sure. People are not very observant, and most trans people will blend in nicely, unless they have a very deep/high voice, adam's apple, facial hair that gives them away. I think it's hard to tell.

I saw a woman earlier today who I strongly suspected was trans (though I wasn't 100% on it). The only thing I took in was excitement that there were other transsexuals in public around me. I'm always happy when I can confirm with my own surroundings that I'm not the only one.

I use to work in an area called boy's town in Chicago. All year round there are trans abundant  and its just a non-issue

I'm another who thinks you never really know when it's a stranger and you don't get their story... but I tend to focus on the parts that I'm jealous of, like "Wow, she's really pretty, or I wish I had her thin build or were that short."

(And yeah, in another lesson of "you just never know," when people meet my wife and me knowing *one* of us is trans, they guess her about 90% of the time. She's kind of strong-featured and heavy-boned, and doesn't dress girly - so while to me she looks unquestionably female, I'm definitely the more femme of us.)

I forgot an important aspect of my story about meeting the trans woman earlier...

The real important thing I was watching was "wow, not a single other person notices. She's been called "one of the women" at least a few times, the women are sharing pictures of their kids with her, and it's very clear that not a single other person suspects that she's trans."

That was a really huge moment for me where, for the first time ever, I started to believe that I was really going to be able to achieve social acceptance even if I didn't completely pass as cis to my own eyes. I wasn't full-time yet at the time, so it was a big deal for me to see that.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 07, 2014, 05:58:57 PM
I don't worry about clocking other trans people myself. I am too busy living my life and shopping. I feel if you get to this point you are a little too obsessed about being trans. 

This..

Quote from: Megan Joanne on August 07, 2014, 06:20:16 PM
Don't think it has to do with this, you can be doing your every day thing and notice all kinds of things around you, this just happens to be one of many. You're not out looking for it (whatever the occurrence may be), it just so happens to come along and catch your eye and interest for maybe but a moment.

I've noticed a few trans either while out shopping as well as at work. The way I see it, if I could tell they were trans, then they weren't quite passing. Otherwise I wouldn't have noticed this oddity that fell borderline between the sexes, if she passed then she would have walked by seen like any other cis-gender woman. But why they got clocked by me, over-dressed, too much make-up on, really tall or big, overall facial features including beard shadow that of a man and uncomfortable looking, that unease that I remember having myself many years ago. Not that I care either way, just an observation as any other. Been there myself at the start. Can any other trans possibly clock me while I'm out there, possibly, but I don't care. They keep their mouth, I do the same, just another stranger passing by among many.

Guess I'm just not interested enough to look closely enough.. The only trans women I can claim to have noticed while out and about are those that I know are trans. I'm sure I've seen others, just never noticed..

Actually, that's not entirely true.. I was at a LGBTIQ club last year and overheard some people talking about a trans woman, I spotted her just from their convo.. And then realised I'd seen her earlier in the night and not though much beyond, 'She's not my type..'

Quote from: Megan Joanne on August 07, 2014, 06:20:16 PM
Don't think it has to do with this, you can be doing your every day thing and notice all kinds of things around you, this just happens to be one of many. You're not out looking for it (whatever the occurrence may be), it just so happens to come along and catch your eye and interest for maybe but a moment.

I've noticed a few trans either while out shopping as well as at work. The way I see it, if I could tell they were trans, then they weren't quite passing. Otherwise I wouldn't have noticed this oddity that fell borderline between the sexes, if she passed then she would have walked by seen like any other cis-gender woman. But why they got clocked by me, over-dressed, too much make-up on, really tall or big, overall facial features including beard shadow that of a man and uncomfortable looking, that unease that I remember having myself many years ago. Not that I care either way, just an observation as any other. Been there myself at the start. Can any other trans possibly clock me while I'm out there, possibly, but I don't care. They keep their mouth, I do the same, just another stranger passing by among many.

Exactly. I won't have to write this after all.

I read your mind Evelyn. 

clocking? this is a new term for me. if it means judging or comparing then let me tell you something. i suck so much at making certain judgments about people. ive hung out with gay guys and known them for years and never once suspected they were gay when it was blatantly obvious to evey other human with working eyes. for me i see it this way. "that girl has stronger features" "that boy has a really femme features, hes cute" "omg he can make anything look good i want his style". these things register differently to me. :3 i make judgments more based off of opinions, personality and actions.
If i saw a trans girl in person and i knew it then id smile and think "good for her"

I'm in the Chelsea area of Manhattan all the time. I see many transwomen especially when going to Callen-Lorde since many of us get our HRT from there. I live in NJ, and there are not as many here, but I've seen many that I'm pretty sure are in my area. In either location, no one in the general public really notices. Most people are just too busy in their everyday lives to notice and don't even know what to look for.

When I do clock someone I look to see what is working for them and what isn't. I've often smiled at them and get a smile in return most of the time. I would never out anyone as I would not want to be outed either.

I just get really self consious that I might be staring, or they may think I am staring.  I am not a fan of people staring at me, why would I hand that insecurity to someone else?

Usually though, nobody else seems to notice, so, I guess I look at both why she is passing and why I clocked her.  So when I do come out in public I know what to look for in myself.  Only emulating cis-women probably wouldn't work, for me anyway, there's no way I could be that naturally femme (I am a few months from 30 and probably starting HRT within this month ).  I need to know the " What-not-to-do's" more than the "wow, that dress is super cute!"

This is a touchy subject for me.

Usually when I'm out and about I don't see many trans women just because there aren't many in my area. Yes, there have been a times I was able to notice another girl is trans (I hate the term "clocking," or "clocked" and refuse to use it). For me the things that usually give someone away are manurisms ie: the way they walk, their body language, etc., and especially nervousness only because I know what to look for, as others have pointed out.

There have been a few times where I was out with my girlfriends some knowing my history, some who didn't, that I've been very disappointed and in some instances even appalled by my friends attitudes toward transwomen who weren't as tiny and feminine built as those of us who are more fortunate. During these few times my girlfriends I was with would notice someone is trans by obvious physical attributes. They either had a large head, a high hairline, big hands and feet, they're overly tall, a prominent adams apple, deep brow, or noticeable beard shadow, but mostly features they couldn't help. Because I'm lucky enough to not have these problems, they would start talking about them and how they look in front of me, expecting me to agree with them and join in the conversation. I was shocked my so called friends would behave this way in front of me. They tell me I'm different because of how I look. Of course I beg to differ and told them how ashamed I was to be seen with them. On several occasions when this happened I was horrified and left their group because of how they acted. And as a result of these encounters I've lost a lot of friends. I just have no use for anyone who takes pleasure in belittling others trans or not because of physical attributes they can't help.

I also believe as others have pointed out; It is easier for us to spot the little things in other trans people because we as trans ourselves know what to look for. The average cis public doesn't though, and generally aren't paying attention.

However, at a trans group meeting up north I've even had one other trans woman become angry with me during a conversation she brought up about passing. She looked at me kind of funny and stared saying: "well we can't all be 5-5 and 120 pounds." She was one of those who would out herself by constantly putting herself and her looks down. Actually I thought she was quite pretty.

Ali

^^

Quote from: Allyda on August 08, 2014, 03:06:26 PM
However, at a trans group meeting up north I've even had one other trans woman become angry with me during a conversation she brought up about passing. She looked at me kind of funny and stared saying: "well we can't all be 5-5 and 120 pounds." She was one of those who would out herself by constantly putting herself and her looks down. Actually I thought she was quite pretty.

Ali

5'-3.7"122 lbs

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 08, 2014, 03:34:07 PM
^^
5'-3.7"122 lbs

Yea I noticed Evelyn we're about the same size. I'm actually 5-5 & 118 at the moment trying to get to 108 if I'm lucky. I worry about my booby's though losing weight. I finally got to a small 32B and would hate for them to shrink.

Ali

Quote from: Allyda on August 08, 2014, 03:06:26 PM
I also believe as others have pointed out; It is easier for us to spot the little things in other trans people because we as trans ourselves know what to look for. The average cis public doesn't though, and generally aren't paying attention.

This is the core truth. For cis people they have this little subconscious mantra "I'm cis, you're cis, we're all cis. He's a he, she's a she, we are we and we are cis!" Of course they don't use that terminology because about 99.9% of cis people have never heard the term "cis" let alone know what it means...but hopefully you get what I mean. Most cis people aren't out there being the gender police, they presume everyone is the gender they present as. In their mind they think a trans woman will look like a drag queen parody, or like Klinger from M.A.S.H. or something really obvious (I can't say what they would expect a trans guy to look like, presumably they don't even know or believe female to male even exists).

It's the people who are more gender savvy who are more aware of differences.

I've said quite a few times now that passing is as much about confidence and presentation, not just how you "look". Yes it helps to have female features, and I've been relatively lucky in that department but I'm 6'3", never going to have lush natural hair and a voice that definitely isn't female...it amazes me every day how I actually pass, but it seems I do so I'm not taking it for granted - I have to work at it every day too...even when I don't feel like it. Having been full time for over four months I'm still constantly aware I'm not cis but they don't notice, despite my "non-normative failings" because of that mantra going through their mind. I present "cis enough" it would seem.

Also I'm really gratefully for iPhones, iPads, Kindles, etc since most people have their nose stuck in those most of the time. They're more likely to get run over crossing the road than notice I'm trans.

Quote from: Ms Grace on August 08, 2014, 04:17:38 PM
This is the core truth. For cis people they have this little subconscious mantra "I'm cis, you're cis, we're all cis. He's a he, she's a she, we are we and we are cis!" Of course they don't use that terminology because about 99.9% of cis people have never heard the term "cis" let alone know what it means...but hopefully you get what I mean. Most cis people aren't out there being the gender police, they presume everyone is the gender they present as. In their mind they think a trans woman will look like a drag queen parody, or like Klinger from M.A.S.H. or something really obvious (I can't say what they would expect a trans guy to look like, presumably they don't even know or believe female to male even exists).

It's the people who are more gender savvy who are more aware of differences.

I've said quite a few times now that passing is as much about confidence and presentation, not just how you "look". Yes it helps to have female features, and I've been relatively lucky in that department but I'm 6'3", never going to have lush natural hair and a voice that definitely isn't female...it amazes me every day how I actually pass, but it seems I do so I'm not taking it for granted - I have to work at it every day too...even when I don't feel like it. Having been full time for over four months I'm still constantly aware I'm not cis but they don't notice, despite my "non-normative failings" because of that mantra going through their mind. I present "cis enough" it would seem.

Also I'm really gratefully for iPhones, iPads, Kindles, etc since most people have their nose stuck in those most of the time. They're more likely to get run over crossing the road than notice I'm trans.

I agree 100% with you Ms. Grace, and definitely second your last statement, lol! Especially in parking lots. Just at my local WinnDixie yesterday two young girls almost got ran over because they had their noses into their phones and weren't paying attention to where they were walking.

Ally

Quote from: Ms Grace on August 08, 2014, 04:17:38 PM

Also I'm really gratefully for iPhones, iPads, Kindles, etc since most people have their nose stuck in those most of the time. They're more likely to get run over crossing the road than notice I'm trans.

Haha, that great! 

So true.