Quote from: Susan522 on August 16, 2014, 02:22:07 PM
"That question of, "is this what successful transition is" - a permanent change to a new normal. If looking or reaching backwards reconnects you to what was not normal. Then is it "successful".
"

I really do not feel comfortable, or even qualified to define or try to determine what is "normal".    I will leave that to others.  A commonly accepted definition can be found here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/normal.

Just like 'normal' is what normal does, I think, as many here have said, normal for each individual is IMHO, what works for them.  The problems seem to arise when that definition of normal that might work for one individual, just might not work for others.  Result?  Squabbles.  And yes.  Those squabbles do get tiresome.

I think normal in our context refers to 'CIS' normal, or emulating it as close as possible. It's our benchmark and holy grail after all. At least normal enough where one doesn't have to think about it any longer and has truly moved on to let happiness and 'life' fill those spaces instead. Hence leaving any need for further support behind.

Quote from: Zoe the Obscure on August 16, 2014, 03:15:21 PM
I would hate to be 'normal'.   Despite all the bull->-bleeped-<-, i like being trans and the edge it gives me.  That being said i concur with the others in the sense that i am not expecting to transition and sail away into a new world and be a new person, rather i will still be me with girly upgrades.

+1 I'm rather eccentric but that's my normal!

I too hate normal. I am abnormal. I was abnormal when really bad things happened, I was abnormal when I graduate highschool. I was abnormal when I went to LA. I was abnormal when I move back the AR. I was abnormal when I joined the Army. I tried to act normal in the military and pass for basic and AIT, fail after first duty station. I was abnormal when I got out. I have been abnormal since. Screw being normal, It ain't no fun. Give me abnormal any day over the hum drum of normalness.

Quote from: Jess42 on August 16, 2014, 05:25:30 PM
I too hate normal. I am abnormal. I was abnormal when really bad things happened, I was abnormal when I graduate highschool. I was abnormal when I went to LA. I was abnormal when I move back the AR. I was abnormal when I joined the Army. I tried to act normal in the military and pass for basic and AIT, fail after first duty station. I was abnormal when I got out. I have been abnormal since. Screw being normal, It ain't no fun. Give me abnormal any day over the hum drum of normalness.

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 16, 2014, 04:47:51 PM
I think normal in our context refers to 'CIS' normal, or emulating it as close as possible. It's our benchmark and holy grail after all. At least normal enough where one doesn't have to think about it any longer and has truly moved on to let happiness and 'life' fill those spaces instead. Hence leaving any need for further support behind.

Like I said.... Whatever works

What an interesting discussion.  I will never be "cis normal" never was when I pretended to be a man, unlikely now.  I long to find my own niche which is unique to me and acceptable to the rest of my environment.  I am kind of reminded of AA, I will never be finished.   I will never be cured.  I will never be "Transitioned".  I see myself as is more of a pilgrim,  a seeker, a student.  One of the nice things about being my age is that next year I can audit graduate level  courses at the University of Washington for very little money.  There are lots of areas of inquiry that I had to pass on to focus on credentials necessary to earn a living.  Guess I'm a bit tired of CS and engineering.

Sorry, to ramble on, but if I'm never finished then I will always have something new to learn.  If I'm learning I'm not leaving.  You guys will be cursed with me for a long time I guess

I guess the question becomes the level of intensity.  For a time I found a lifeline here.  Then friendship which seems to be evolving into companions and fellow travelers.   Kinda makes me want to sing union songs,  lol.  At least until Jessica notices and I'm banished. 

julie

Hehe~ Never was normal, never will be normal, never want to be normal. Being trans is hardly what makes me strange by society's standards. Everything about me, from my religious, political and philosophical views down to my sexuality and the clothes I like are in the minority, at least where I live. Being normal is overrated.

There is an interesting thought pattern here, should one revel in your transgender 'oddness' or delight in fulfilling the role of the cis-woman you were supposed to be in the first place.  Ultimately it comes down to the labels we choose, and there is no such thing as a wrong answer. 

I have always wondered though, if i was born cis, what kind of a person would i be?  Personally i think i would be an irritating cis-privileged middle class closet-dyke with an arts degree and a wine dialect, which compared to myself the real world (suitably an extra in a John Waters film) would really suck.

I think i am waffling, erm sorry.

"CIS-normal"  Another interesting word, invented to somehow differentiate trans*-peeps from others.  It seems that cis is a function of trans* in that cis is somehow the opposite of trans*. 

I guess that makes me "cis" in that I am perfectly happy with my gender and my sex and all my "parts" work nicely, more or less in harmony.  In the "olden days", we used to call that 'well balanced'.

Now 'normal', is an interesting concept.  Using the definition referenced above, it means, more or less "middle of the road".  In many ways I am normal, but in many more, I am very, very abnormal.  I agree that normal, while a relatively safe place to be, can be pretty boring.  But then again, most people, who know me in passing think I am exceedingly normal as I tend to carry as low a profile as I can.  Why?  Because it is safe.  Why make oneself a target.  Life is tough enough without looking for trouble.

For me normal means living without the need for hindsight or introspection to help guide your transition going forward. There is no more forward, your transition is complete. It is indeed - an endpoint.

There is only "riding off into the sunset" left, as Foxwood has said.

I know I'm finding it harder and harder to identify with what early transition like for me and I feel my ability to support is starting to suffer for it. The terror, the prejudice I projected upon the world. I remember that I felt and did that but I'm disconnected from the mindset because I've found I was so very, very wrong and it's not so recent history for me anymore.

The above means I've arrived at a place where I've been thinking more and more that I'm coming to another hiatus or perhaps an outright end here. Therapy will become very rare for me sometime next year after I get SRS. It's so bizarre to know I'm coming to an finality, victorious beyond any dream I dared to dream in the battle I've been in since Halloween when I was in kindergarten and first knew I was a girl. I've only known my life laden with this battle. But ever since I got my new glasses at the start of this month and cast off the last trace of the guy I was from my daily presentation, I'm mostly just a woman in the world now and being trans is more like a, "Oh yeah, that's right. That happened." to my mind.

I will be going. That's all I know for sure. Not today, but soon.

^^ Makes a lot of sense. And your sig line underscores it nicely.

I actually never answered my own topic starter question.

My pivotal moment will be after my trachea shave and most likely an orchy. I'm hoping to be complete 1-year in which is March next year. I'll start my legal transition in Jan. HRT is a given, I hope for more dramatic improvements.

My goals until then:

Continue voice training.
Even loooonger hair.
Finish laser and electro. Maybe full body.
More exercise induced muscle atrophy.
Build up a new wardrobe. Probably my most favorite part.
Pickup some basic makeup skillz.
Learn the in's and outs of female socialization.

So I'm still here for awhile. Meh.

Quote from: Misato on August 16, 2014, 11:23:52 PM
I know I'm finding it harder and harder to identify with what early transition like for me and I feel my ability to support is starting to suffer for it. The terror, the prejudice I projected upon the world. I remember that I felt and did that but I'm disconnected from the mindset because I've found I was so very, very wrong and it's not so recent history for me anymore.

This right here is why early transitioners need to hear from the post transition crowd.  Given their often fragile mental state, nothing could help them more than a good dose of reality.

Quote from: Evelyn K on August 17, 2014, 12:18:53 AM
^^ Makes a lot of sense. And your sig line underscores it nicely.

Changed it last night to reflect the closing time phase I've entered.

Quote from: katiej on August 17, 2014, 12:30:00 AM
This right here is why early transitioners need to hear from the post transition crowd.  Given their often fragile mental state, nothing could help them more than a good dose of reality.

Delivering doses of reality is not my style though and I get uncomfortable when I do. I'm better as a guide. I ask questions to help others find the truth of their reality and it helps me understand what life is like for others. I mean I'm white, in my 30's, educated, in an in demand field for work, work that pays very well, while living and moving about the Midwestern United States. When I try to help someone younger or with not my skin color or with less income, all I can do is engage and try to understand what their situation is which has the wonderful side effect of helping others look at themselves and their views. One needn't be post transition to do that either.

Reading through this thread and seeing so many talk about eventually leaving the forum makes me sad... I guess I always knew that some people would leave once their transition was complete, but I never really actively thought about it before. I'm not going to beg you girls to stick around, but I wanted you to know that I'll miss seeing you around a great deal once you're gone.

I guess it's just a shock to me to see so many people with such a different view of things than I have in this regard. I don't view transition as having an endpoint, really. I can't imagine ever getting to a point where I think to myself, "Whew, I'm finally done! Now I can feel happy and put this all behind me!" Maybe when I first joined, I had this sort of mentality. The, "Transition starts with this and ends with this," sort. But somewhere along the way, things changed. I started becoming more interested in the mental aspects of transition than the physical. Through the help of some amazing women on this forum, I became more in touch with my femininity. I was able to explore my emotions. I became more empathetic. I discovered a sort of maternal instinct, I suppose. I wanted to nurture people. I wanted to help them see what they so often couldn't: That they're beautiful, precious... That someone genuinely cares when they're going through rough times and is there to listen, and that they would be greatly missed if they left this world.

This is the greatest joy I have discovered during transition. Being there for others. I've never felt more feminine or happy than when I'm helping others. When someone tells me we'll be friends forever or accepts me as a real member of their family, it's a better feeling to me than I'll ever get from hormones or SRS or anything else I can change about my body. And that leads me into another point I wanted to make -- You don't need to be able to personally relate to someone's situation to be able to help them. I should know. I have virtually NO experience when it comes to transition. I'm "pre-everything," as it were (a term I've grown to dislike as it doesn't account for the vast emotional and mental transition I have gone through), and I don't share many of the feelings other girls have about transition. I don't feel scared about it. I'm not worried one bit about society's reactions. I've dealt with the ignorance and bigotry of society my entire life, living in the south. It's nothing new and scary to me. But it doesn't matter whether or not I'm in the same situation as someone. I still know what it's like to hurt. To feel fear. To feel hopeless. And I know what it's like to want to die. I can still empathize. I can still help. I can still be a shoulder to cry on, an ear to listen, and a loyal friend. Often that's what helps more than anything else. Just being there for someone.

Well... This is a long rambly post and I'm not sure there was a point to it. I just started writing to say I'd miss you girls when you leave, and it turned into this. Maybe something in there was useful to someone. If not, thanks for reading anyway.

Evelyn, Misato, and the others... I hope you achieve all your goals in transition, but I'll miss you if you feel the need to "ride off into the sunset" someday.

Some are givers and some are takers, we all take and some give back. But it's a lot deeper than that, for some it's the emotional connection to an extended family. I came here way back when Susan's Place was new, I had a different name then and enjoyed learning and taking in all the information I could get, there were those I really liked and some not so likable. Eventually I left and moved on. Several years went by and I'd occasionally check out the forums as a guest. Now that I'm fully matured and have taken my physical transition as far as I intended, I have reached a realization that there are a lot of "youngsters" that could use a leg up and maybe a shoulder to cry on and it has been a pleasure for me to transition from taker to giver which for me is just another step in my own ever developing transition into adulthood. I say that because I'm only twenty years old from the time I said goodbye to that old worm and broke out of my cocoon and spread my wings.

Quote from: Jess42 on August 16, 2014, 08:27:57 AM
For me, I don't think it ever will. I feel like I owe it to other's that may need support, encouragement and advice. Maybe owe is not exactly the word I was looking for but all I want to do is help others that are going through the same thing I have been through and still going through. It's a never ending process for me. Others here have helped me and I owe them my eternal gratitude for sure. So paying it forward is sort of the attitude I take.

^^^ + 1

Yeah, could not have expressed my views better... it is not all about me but about those around me... including those in my cyber universe

Pikachu, Shaun,

I sincerely hope you never graduate and leave.  We are all human becomings and I for one need you, and hope I can always call you friends.

Peace
Julie

Quote from: Jess42 on August 16, 2014, 05:25:30 PM
I too hate normal. I am abnormal. I was abnormal when really bad things happened, I was abnormal when I graduate highschool. I was abnormal when I went to LA. I was abnormal when I move back the AR. I was abnormal when I joined the Army. I tried to act normal in the military and pass for basic and AIT, fail after first duty station. I was abnormal when I got out. I have been abnormal since. Screw being normal, It ain't no fun. Give me abnormal any day over the hum drum of normalness.

I do not think in terms of abnormal but perhaps as eccentric, scholar, poet, scientists, warrior, we all in some way are unique... gifted...

I too refuse to impose a label on my giftedness... I am a an American human female... the rest are but details...

I want to thank and praise you all, what a wonderful collection of thoughtful posts

Quote from: JulieBlair on August 17, 2014, 09:59:49 AM
Pikachu, Shaun,

I sincerely hope you never graduate and leave.  We are all human becomings and I for one need you, and hope I can always call you friends.

Peace
Julie

Yes!

I guessing that if one were to leave Susan's they wouldn't leave the internet so why would some one purposely avoid checking it out like checking out daily news. kind of strange actually, unless your in denial of transitioning. not to be argumentative , just curious. or just to say hi!. of course if you de-transition I could understand I don't know maybe it's not a big deal