I was just wondering if anyone has said or felt anything like that to the people in your life who have a hard time accepting your decision to transition.

As I continue down the path and I see there are still people in my life who are very much in denial, I find myself wondering if I will ever express or feel an emotion such as this.

Julie

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 23, 2007, 05:33:35 PM
I was just wondering if anyone has said or felt anything like that to the people in your life who have a hard time accepting your decision to transition.
Julie

Trust me, if I told my parents I'd had SRS, they'd STILL ask me, "does that mean you're wearing women's clothes?"

Some people just *refuse* to "get it." It's not that they can't, it's that they WON'T.

~Kate~

Julie,
   I never really cared what people thought of me. When I came to terms with who I was and what I was going to do about it. It never really occurred to me what they thought of me. I never really cared whether or not they knew that I was a man before or what they thought. It was my life and I was going to be who I should have been when I was born. The doctor had a choice, 50/50 choice, he was wrong. Now things are right and I will be who I am. Like I have said before, I maybe the ugliest female alive, but I'm a female. Now, I know better that I'm not the ugliest, I have had some guys come on to me. I tell them I'm married, I wear a wedding ring. They think I'm married to a guy, a lot thing that way.
Sheila

Hmmmm...not exactly, but I remember when I scheduled my surgery, my brother (my favorite brother) began to question my reasons even though I had been living as a woman for many years.  We had several heated conversations, and I couldn't understand why he was acting the way he did.  I guess that in the back of his mind, he still thought I was "going to come to my senses and forget about this whole sex change thing" 

After several months, it finally sinked in but boy, I had to open up my heart to him and tell him things I had never told anyone.  It was worth it though, for he got it at last.

tink

People will believe as they wish to believe.  My older brother wants to remember me "as I was."  That tells me that he must consider me to be dead.  His wife accepts me as I am.

I learned pretty fast that I am not in this world to please everyone else.

Wingwalker

SRS was one of the watershed event that convinced most people I was serious.  I still have a brother who wants
to remember me as I was and a few people who are convinced I'll live to regret the decision--something I know
with 100% certainty will never happen.  Since the results of SRS are essentially invisible, it probably won't have
a major impact except on the people closest to you.  FFS I think had a more profound effect upon people.  I went
from undeniably male to undeniably female after FFS.  Even this has limitations since some people will see what
they want to see when they look at you.

Stormy

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 23, 2007, 05:33:35 PMthere are still people in my life who are very much in denial

Oh baby, believe you me, I can't wait until the day I can say this to them. I hope that will wake them up to reality and snap them out of the self-induced delusion of their stubborn denial. Then they may kick me out of the family completely, but it's no good remaining in on the basis of denying who I am.

Julie,

I personally don't want people thinking about what is - or isn't - between my legs.  That decision will remain a very private one with me. 

However, in your situation, it appears to be the only thing that will convince others.  I am so happy for you to be able to follow your dreams.  But I would remind you that you are not a woman because you had your body altered.  You are already one inside, and a very beautiful one at that!

Kristi

There are 2 episodes that I remember very clearly from the time of my SRS. Prior to SRS one of my cousins asked me whether I was really going to go through with this, "think what it's doing to your father!", he said. I guess I figured out quickly where his loyalties were!

After my SRS, while still in hospital i received a phone call, they said it was my auntie. I was confused and shocked and could not for the life of me guess who it could be (I have quite a few aunties). Anyway it was my dad's youngest sister and all she had to say (other than to congratulate me) was "you should have done this many years ago hun!".

So I guess I have seen both sides of the coin. Mum was very supportive (ie acting as if nothing had happened ) while dad was very reserved and avoided addressing me by name. Now, 20 odd years on, all is well and even dad gives me a hug from time to time. I guess bringing home a husband made it easier on dad.

Thinking back, I have quite a few fond memories of meeting my relatives for the first time...again!

Julie,

I believe you regardless of GRS.  The rest of the world may or may not believe you.

I hope you are happy and have some peace.

Quote from: Kate on September 23, 2007, 05:44:24 PM
Some people just *refuse* to "get it." It's not that they can't, it's that they WON'T.

~Kate~

I get the impression that you wouldn't make this distinction between can't and won't unless it was important to you. So I wonder how you can really know whether someone can't or won't.

....It's the same with hormones....friends say 'why don't you go on hormones'......and I have to tell them I've been on them for 7 or 8 years!

Quote

Trust me, if I told my parents I'd had SRS, they'd STILL ask me, "does that mean you're wearing women's clothes?"

Some people just *refuse* to "get it." It's not that they can't, it's that they WON'T.

~Kate~

Exactly.

Julie
As long as you beleive in yourself that is all that really matters. In most instances you will be going down a lonely road. You have to beleive in yourself. I can tell that you do because of your actions. It is so very hard for someone who is not transitioning and not on HRT to full understand the scope of things. For a person to go full time as his or her desired sex is an undertaking that most people can never realise. That is unless they are or have gone through the same thing.

SRS is the final step in our goals. It is a very important step for me and I think most. It is the step that completes us. Once you are Post -op there should be no doubt. It may take a while for some to realise. If they never come around to accepting you then you really don't need that worry. Move on to those new friends you will make in your wonderful new life.

You are a beautiful woman, and always beleive that. Make the most of your new life, and never look back. Always go forward!


Deb

Deb, That is excellent advice and beautifully said.

Quote from: debisl on September 29, 2007, 08:51:14 AM

SRS is the final step in our goals. It is a very important step for me and I think most. It is the step that completes us. Once you are Post -op there should be no doubt. It may take a while for some to realise. If they never come around to accepting you then you really don't need that worry. Move on to those new friends you will make in your wonderful new life.

Deb

Why are so many men who have had SRS.....who just look like men who have had SRS?....and there's plenty of doubt.....

Debs you are beautiful and would look female with or without SRS......many are not so lucky.....

I think gaining a female image, face and  body wins hands down.....SRS doesn't define femininity in any way...

Trust me, having SRS/GRS isn't going to change someone's mind who is alre4ady made up. They'll point out the Bible verses to say God created you a man and that means you're still a man. Or in the case of others that don't use the Bible to put us down but still don't see TS women as "real" women, they'll say "You weren't born a woman / You never had a period / etc. so will "Never know what it feels like to be a "real" woman...

People have to get SRS/GRS for their own reasons, not to convince anyone else.

There is the matter of legal documentation. - In the U.S. requiring SRS/GRS and proof of that to get a "F" gender marker on the drivers license, so that is a legal consideration. But that is the government / legal system, not individuals' opinions.

Myself, I would go for FFS, like Sandy did - outside of all the warnings of how intense the surgery and recovery is, looking at her pre and post FFS pictures, it's clear to me that FFS is the one thing that would make the biggest difference in other's acceptance who's opinions / views could be swayed. Also, FFS erases a lot of the old male facial gender cues, so it takes away a lot of what people visually remember you looking like in the face for those who knew you and remember you as a guy.

The hormones do soften the face somewhat, and even a small amount of chest growth can make a difference in how you feel about yourself. However, unless you go around in a string bikini top, the chest change isn't going to mentally register as strongly in people's minds (the clothes hide the chest so people create a mental image of a male chest if they know you as a male unless they've seen you withoout your shirt on).

Facial surgery is very important to me - for seeing myself in the mirror and presenting myself to others.

Then there is the matter of body weight. Women can be overweight but have big hips - they don't have the typically male "beer guts" and narrow male hips, so weight loss for some people (like myself) to get rid of that gut is very important.

Also walking and moving and talking like a woman vs a man are going to be big gender cues.

SRS/GRS is not for me. It's not how I define myself. The other things I mentioned (other than SRS/GRS) are much more imortant to me.



Posted on: September 29, 2007, 12:47:56 PM

---

Looking at Deb's picture, I am going to add to my comments a little - I was mostly thinking about my own situation.

For someone who transitions young - and someone who looks as young and beautiful as Deb - then SRS/GRS would be a very important thing to get done - to get on with a Female life and work history at the earliest possible point in time and to be able to date and enjoy life as a young women.

Deb, that was one of the most heart felt posts I have ever read here.  True, for some of us, SRS is a must; others, however, may not think that way and hence have other priorities.  Being legally a woman is one of the main reasons for SRS obviously.

Also, for heterosexual girls like us, it is imperative if we want to be romantically/sexually involved with men.  True, having a penis does not prevent us from doing so, but it DOES NOT feel right (at least in my case it didn't) IMHO and in my case, having a congruent body and mind was (is) VERY important despite the cliche which states that "gender is between the ears"

tink

Deb,

I agree with Tink: your post was excellent and rang from the heart.

But, I also agree with Berleigh in at least one aspect of what she said. That no matter what you do some peopple are not going to accept any "new yous."

For whatever reasons they have they simply refuse to believe there has been any change. It happens. I think we are often enough able to "block" information from oursenses when our sense of who we are, what people are, etc are subject to violation by another's experience.

I suspect that you and I could find some people who would take a look at you and still maintain they saw "a man" were they to have knowledge of how your path to womanhood had run.

As you said: the answer to all those people, to anyone, is that I am who I am and who I have always been. Now, it is simply a matter of others no longer having as much evidence as they once had to view me as different than I am and have always been.

Hugs,

Nichole

Quote from: Tink on September 29, 2007, 01:04:41 PM

Also, for heterosexual girls like us, it is imperative if we want to be romantically/sexually involved with men.  True, having a penis does not prevent us from doing so, but it DOES NOT feel right (at least in my case it didn't) IMHO and in my case, having a congruent body and mind was (is) VERY important despite the cliche which states that "gender is between the ears"

tink

I guess I may be wierd (ok I know I'm wierd but I may be wierder than I thought) but even though I am a lesbian I have never felt right using a penis and I feel that in order for me to ever have a fullfilling sex life I will have to have SRS. is it unusaul for a lesbian like me to feel this way? I am just courious!!