Quote from: Hideyoshi on October 01, 2014, 06:44:49 PM
wasn't she not on HRT yet?

She was on them for quite some time before she came out.

Quote from: Hideyoshi on September 30, 2014, 07:44:52 AM
I was just like this, but once they started coming in, I couldn't get enough of it :>

Just have to accept that you will get all the changes, some more, some less, but you can't really choose what you get with HRT. I learned to love my boobs & new fat deposits.

I was the same, prior to starting hrt I really did just want some of the changes from the hormones, but not all. I'm a picky gal. This was a bit more about 'how will I hide it whilst transitioning'. But I soon learned there were no options and what I get is what I get. But once the boobs and curves started I really changed my view, loving em now though

Quote from: ✰Fairy~Wishes✰ on September 29, 2014, 02:17:34 PM
I would love to be a flat-chested woman! If I can pass as a woman and not be curvy, that would be great!

Flat-chested women look plenty like women to me.

Have you talked to a flat chested woman about how she feels about not having breast? In my experience deep down they are very unhappy and insecure about their femininity... of course there are always exceptions to the rules

What ever rocks your boat girl, it is OK... we have here persons who have had SRS, are on HRT and have develop some breast, go by a female name, do not present as females and they consider themselves boys... go figure out

Quote from: ✰Fairy~Wishes✰ on September 29, 2014, 10:01:36 AM
But sometimes I wasn't sure, or I didn't feel that way. Like for instance, I don't want boobs or curves.

Well, if you open a random Vogue issue I'm sure you'll see plenty of women without boobs (well, almost flat-chested), without hips, with shoulders broeader than hips, etc etc.

There's a huge spectrum for models, from curvy glamour ones, to skinny fashion ones, to even muscle-built fitness girls. So, what's the point? There's plenty of androgynous girls who present them as girls and fell themselves like girls. Can't see the drama.

Quote from: ✰Fairy~Wishes✰ on September 29, 2014, 10:01:36 AM
So I'm worried about HRT because I don't want to grow boobs.

Well, thats kind of a lottery. Depending on your genetics, on your dose/meds, on your hability to restrain your weight, etc etc.

Quote from: ✰Fairy~Wishes✰ on September 29, 2014, 10:01:36 AM
But I don't know much about this, what it's called and how good it will be at stopping me from being curvy

I you're past the age mark where bone development halts, then you can be sure that you're gonna get curvy as much as you're unable to control your diet. Being curvy is just having nice fat deposits on hips, butt, boobs, etc. How to solve? Lots of cardio, eating clean, etc etc etc, sure you already now. There's no much secret on runway models, just starving and working out.

Quote from: ✰Fairy~Wishes✰
I want to have a more feminine face. Well, I want to be more feminine in every way I can other than being curvy.

Well, HRT effects on face are super-duper limited. Maybe a little more overall fat on the face, masseter/moustache muscles loss, fair and nice-looking skin, and maybe some cheeks. Buuuut, this is just the best scenario, none of this changes (except maybe for the skin) are granted. Anyway, if dieting and exercising the right way then you could benefit from muscle loss, while the E will prevent future gains. Maybe this could give a more softer/feminine look to your shoulders.

Anyway, if you want my opinion, the most realistic expectation is having FFS to fix most face issues, going full HRT, and watching insanely your weight. Sure you gonna have at least minimal tissue growth, but if restraining your weight plus working out (and yes, this is very much hard work) this shouldn't be a problem.

Quote from: peky on October 01, 2014, 08:08:07 PM
Have you talked to a flat chested woman about how she feels about not having breast? In my experience deep down they are very unhappy and insecure about their femininity... of course there are always exceptions to the rules

What ever rocks your boat girl, it is OK... we have here persons who have had SRS, are on HRT and have develop some breast, go by a female name, do not present as females and they consider themselves boys... go figure out

Actually I think they are much more than exceptions. It just depends on influences received and roles followed. Vogue is full of A cups and completely flat-chested gals. In many "high class" circles curvy figures are viewed as tasteless (and I talk about "hour glasses" not about plainly overweighted people).

Now... Gossiping time!

Quote from: kelly_aus on October 01, 2014, 06:14:53 PM
Hormones, sweety.. Hormones.. Despite her protests otherwise.. And I will continue to try and forget the appalling things she has said about trans women..

What appalling things? Wasn't aware of this, well, in fact I'm kinda disconnected from the world lately.

Quote from: katiej on September 29, 2014, 12:59:37 PM
You might want to explore the possibility of taking anti androgens but not any form of estrogen.  That could help you block any further male development, but not grow boobs.

You must have either testosterone or estrogen to maintain your bone density.  Antiandrogens ("T-blockers") will reduce Testosterone and help feminize your body (less muscle mass, etc.), but this alone will cause a loss of bone density just as in post menopausel women (low T & low E).  You must have some level of either to maintain bone density.

Jen

Quote from: EchelonHunt on September 30, 2014, 12:53:56 AM
Can I love your post a million times?

I am a flat chested gal and I agree completely. If I were to have a sexless body - flat chest and no genitals... Would that make me less of a girl?  Gosh no!

Gender is between the ears, sex is between the legs. Your genitals or lack there of should never define your gender identity.

Men, women, binary, non-binary all come in different shapes and sizes, we should all celebrate the diversity between us all because that's what makes us all so unique!

Having breasts or vagina or a lack of either shouldn't have any say on your identity as a woman. Anyone who says otherwise, regardless of fitting the standards of care for transitioning or not, you are who you are and you shouldn't have to suppress who you are to force yourself to fit the stereotypical unrealistic image of what society perceives a woman to be.

Much loves,

~Jay

Awwww, thank you so much!

❤

Quote from: Aisla on September 30, 2014, 05:19:46 AMFind a good endo and work with them to achieve your objectives.  'Messing' with hormones and self medication is potentially dangerous.  Please take care.

You're right. There's lotsa people I need to talk to. I'll talk to a good endocrinologist, thank you!

There are so many people to respond to. Thank you, everyone! I'd love to get back to everyone! I'll try to but it might take a little while. Thank you thank you so much everyone!

Quote from: Wednesday on October 01, 2014, 08:59:43 PM
Well, if you open a random Vogue issue I'm sure you'll see plenty of women without boobs (well, almost flat-chested), without hips, with shoulders broeader than hips, etc etc.

Actually I think they are much more than exceptions. It just depends on influences received and roles followed. Vogue is full of A cups and completely flat-chested gals. In many "high class" circles curvy figures are viewed as tasteless (and I talk about "hour glasses" not about plainly overweighted people).

Quiet the contrary my friend,  the breast size of the typical American woman has increases From 34B to 34DD in the last 20 Years, a survey says

Quotehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/bra-size-survey_n_3645267.html

What you see in vogue does not represent reality by a long shot!

Quote from: Huffington Post
Weight gain and breast implants have played a role in the increase

Anyway, I know that Vogue can be anything but a realistic sample. After all, most models live their lives starving to fit the clothes. But the point is they can be regarded as beauty standards for a lot of population, even if this population is not slim and skinny. The fact northamerican women (and men) are gaining sheds of weight is a well-known health issue, and personally I don't think these women are getting overweight to just have DD cups.

Will be interesting to point out how much the increase is due to surgery and how much due to overweight, my friend.

Quote from: LizMarie on September 30, 2014, 09:18:50 AM
Your core problem is that we must have a sex hormone to ensure bone health or osteoporosis results. Period. No sex hormones will mean brittle thin bones which become a very bad health hazard.

So you have to choose. If you're going to allow testosterone, you are going to continue to masculinize. You don't get to choose. Same with estrogen. You don't get to choose. Either hormone will either cause continued development of masculinity or of femininity.

Oh, well I want to be healthy...

If I had to choose, I would definitely rather have more estrogen than testosterone. I don't like the idea of having lots of testosterone. And having estrogen sounds really nice.
I'm just really scared of having breasts. I think I would be very uncomfortable having breasts. So if I started developing breasts, I would want to get a breast reduction surgery ASAP.

Quote from: LizMarie on September 30, 2014, 09:18:50 AMBut an asexual look with no sex hormones? I cannot see any doctor agreeing to this because of the gigantic health risks involved. You'll end up like a 90 year old woman with almost no estrogen who breaks bones simply by bumping into things.

I'm not sure I want an asexual look. Maybe a little bit? I really just want to be cute and feminine, but I don't want breasts or wide hips.

So... I would like to be a flat chested woman.

if I  may ask what actually is it you don't like about  breasts, personally I think they're beautiful on me or any other woman. I would feel totally lost with out them.

Being asexual is a sexual orientation, not an appearance or a "look" one can get. I think the word you may be looking for is androgynous?

Having no hormones in one's body is a recipe for disaster, I agree with others about that. However, I do think it could be possible to have both estrogen & testosterone in one's system. Cis-girls have testosterone in their bodies as well as estrogen, just the estrogen is much higher than the testosterone. How do I know this? I had my blood tested for hormone levels and my T levels were lower than average for a biological girl. There is also progesterone as well, I believe but that is more involved with periods and pregnancy (correct me if I'm wrong!)

On estrogen, breasts will not grow overnight. It is a slow growth over many months but experiences are different for everyone. Some grow breasts more quickly than others. I would assume if you were on a low dose of estrogen, that the breast growth would be slower than average...? On estrogen, they do not typically grow very large (A to B cup if I remember correctly) which is why transwomen may opt to get breast augmentation to get the breast size they desire. The nifty thing with having small breasts such as these is that they can be easy to conceal with a wireless sports bra if you would like to look androgynous. Katherine Moennig (otherwise known as Shane from The L Word) is one example of a cis-woman with such small breasts that she may as well be flat-chested. She is able to pull off the androgynous look very well as a result.

You could always go on estrogen and have top surgery (that FTMs get to reconstruct breasts into a flat-chested appearance)... breast reduction, I don't think they would reduce them until they are flat. I have tried to ask many doctors in my area but they always say that they "don't do that kind of surgery" ... it appears they will only reduce large breasts to a more comfortable size, not necessarily a small size to a flat appearance. That is my experience in my city though, it may be different elsewhere.

Stephaniec, I know you were asking ✰Fairy~Wishes✰ but I hope you do not mind me answering as well...! I do not view anything wrong with having breasts, I actually love breasts, breasts are beautiful... on other people that is! Even though I identify as a female (although more towards feminine than female), I find the idea of having breasts, larger than they should be on my body triggers dysphoria. It does not match my self-image of myself which is a flat-chested girl, therefore my body is not aligned with my mind. Having breasts would get in the way of things and I am pretty happy just to have a chest that mirrors my inner self. I would love to touch my flat chest and not have to feel excess flesh or breasts that should not be there. Does desiring a flat chest make me less of a woman and does desiring breasts reaffirm one's identity of being a woman? It shouldn't because in the end, we are all beautiful gals, just with different preferences on how we look and feel most comfortable as women. 

~Jay ♡

I'm sorry but there is not HRT to become genderless or kinda non binary I guess (I hope I'm not hurting anyone's feeling). Well you might be able to take HRT and then do the top surgery of the FTMs guys... Still I'm like super perplexed like why not? Breast are but to everyone's what they want. Then if you wear a binder while on hrt that might hinder breast growth too, but for the hips if you are lucky enough to get any there is nothing you can do pretty much xD and with a low dose of hrt you might not get a lot of facial changes... It's best if you just save up for some sort of FFS lol like really that's the best option.

Quote from: Emily29 on October 03, 2014, 11:42:43 PM
I'm sorry but there is not HRT to become genderless or kinda non binary I guess (I hope I'm not hurting anyone's feeling).

I respectfully disagree. You haven't hurt anyone's feelings so please do not worry.

I am born biologically female, have been on testosterone for four years. After much self-discovery, I realized I do not identify as a man as previously thought. I desire a sexless body. My aim is to get a flat chest, continue receiving voice therapy and practice raising my voice to a more gender neutral range, I will remove the uterus so I do not get any more periods, rendering me sterile then I will go off T and let the estrogen feminize my body as I do not wish to be on T for the rest of my life. I will not be a woman in society's eyes, despite returning to my body's original state of supplying estrogen but nor will I be seen as a man either. I will be successfully in-between.

Low-dose HRT exists for non-binary individuals allowing them to reach that in-between state that settles their dysphoria. It is a careful balance but low-dose HRT can be immensely beneficial in helping genderless or non-binary folks diminish dysphoria and achieve an androgynous state.     

Quote from: LizMarie on October 01, 2014, 04:40:04 PM
I'm going to throw more cold water here too.

Facial feminization surgery won't help for long if you continue with testosterone and your face continues to masculinize. It may even end up looking totally unlike what you want or expect. FFS is usually done in concert with someone who is taking estrogen and suppressing testosterone to avoid further masculinization.

So I can't do facial feminization surgery before HRT? Ohhhhhh, oh no. I really want a feminine face. I don't want to lose it.
It sounds like testosterone wants to hurt me just as much as estrogen.

My flat chest and my petite hips are one of the things I'm most happy about and proud of. I don't want to lose them.
But I really really want a feminine face more than almost anything.

I guess I may have to have a balance. Maybe I should try some hormones like a small amount of Estrodial, and then stop or get breast reduction surgery if I started developing breasts too much?

Would that be okay?

Quote from: ✰Fairy~Wishes✰ on October 05, 2014, 05:13:58 PM
I guess I may have to have a balance. Maybe I should try some hormones like a small amount of Estrodial, and then stop or get breast reduction surgery if I started developing breasts too much?

Would that be okay?

Uh, no. How about trying a Therapist first. HRT is not something to play with or experiment with. Please see a Therapist as soon as possible.

All right, I'll try to see a therapist. Thank you.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on October 05, 2014, 05:17:17 PM
Uh, no. How about trying a Therapist first. HRT is not something to play with or experiment with. Please see a Therapist as soon as possible.

This^^___^^ is the best advice I've read here yet. Jess is very right. Hrt meds are nothing to play around with and can cause serious chronic medical problems if taken improperly. I've been reading this thread for a lil while now trying to figure out how best to respond. While I won't judge anyone, your desired outcome is somewhat unique and to achieve it properly and safely, you will need good medical care. And a therapist should be a priority to determine the best possible treatment for you. We're only looking out for your best interests hun.

Ally

well from personal experience, from seeing other women at the gym, those that do alot of upper body workouts, tend to have tighter and flater chests, all while keeping some sort of breast and nipples, this might be what you wanted. but ymmv

You could just take testosterone blockers. That would give you a more feminine face and slimmer shoulders. But depending on your genetics you might still end up with breasts, but not quite as much as if you were on estrogen. But taking only blockers is definitely an option you only want to persue under a doctor's care, since there are health risks associated with having lower overall hormone levels.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on October 06, 2014, 07:51:53 PM
well from personal experience, from seeing other women at the gym, those that do alot of upper body workouts, tend to have tighter and flater chests, all while keeping some sort of breast and nipples, this might be what you wanted. but ymmv

First do therapy.  And please don't self medicate.  But Shawn's brings up a really good point.  Women tend to have very little upstairs when they work out a lot and have a low percentage of body fat.  Female body builders do wear a two-piece bikini, but for a lot of them the top piece isn't totally necessary.