Quote from: Jaime R D on October 18, 2014, 04:50:21 PM
Hey butterflies, I'm curious about mine. 

Oh cripes honey, get over in the Fabulous thread! 

Quote from: Jaime R D on October 18, 2014, 04:50:21 PM
Hey butterflies, I'm curious about mine. 

You pass easily and you don't even seem to be wearing a lot of makeup. That's amazing
Edit: I can see a bit of Adam's apple but I don't think it's a masculine amount. Your face shows some masculine features but considering your apparent age, nothing out of the norm for women your age.

Quote from: Jaime R D on October 18, 2014, 04:50:21 PM
Hey butterflies, I'm curious about mine. 

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes!
Great pics, and yes you do pass.

Quote from: Shodan on October 18, 2014, 04:46:58 PM
I wonder. Have you actually posted any positive feedback?

positive lies hurt more than negative ones. If you're pretty and someone liesyyou're ugly, you'll be positively surprised when you find out the truth. If you're lied that you're pretty, you only have a horrible disappointment and letdown and possibly a crumbling off your whole self esteem to look forward to when you'll encounter people who aren't afraid to tell the truth. But the person who lied to you that you're pretty/passable will live in blissful ignorance and never stop feeling good about their lies...
Then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't see some things either than seen obvious to other people. I think we all have our blind spots. And I am really critical, someone else might not see what I see

Ps I have posted positive feedback in another thread too

Thanks y'all.   


And butterflies, yeah, I'm 51, so not too bad for that age, I guess. There is still a lot I don't like about my face, but gonna live with it, ffs is too expensive for me and I'm scared of something going wrong.

Quote from: Jaime R D on October 18, 2014, 06:29:10 PM
Thanks y'all.   


And butterflies, yeah, I'm 51, so not too bad for that age, I guess. There is still a lot I don't like about my face, but gonna live with it, ffs is too expensive for me and I'm scared of something going wrong.

Honestly the hair helps a lot and your age forgives a lot. You're right,ffs carries risks, especially in older people. It gets pretty risky after 40.

Oh and your smile helps a lot. It makes your cheeks look really nice

Quote from: butterflies on October 18, 2014, 05:56:20 PM
positive lies hurt more than negative ones. If you're pretty and someone liesyyou're ugly, you'll be positively surprised when you find out the truth. If you're lied that you're pretty, you only have a horrible disappointment and letdown and possibly a crumbling off your whole self esteem to look forward to when you'll encounter people who aren't afraid to tell the truth. But the person who lied to you that you're pretty/passable will live in blissful ignorance and never stop feeling good about their lies...
Then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't see some things either than seen obvious to other people. I think we all have our blind spots. And I am really critical, someone else might not see what I see

Ps I have posted positive feedback in another thread too

Just wondering. You tore into me pretty hard, and was equally hypercritical to two other posters. if it was just me, I would have just shrugged it off and not said anything. I mean, I know I don't pass. I probably never will. This is the most feminine I've ever gotten. I don't have gobs of money to do surgery on my face (not that I would want to, anyway) to make me passable. Hell, I don't have any money to buy any kind of makeup, so I make do with what I have. I mean, I've come a long way from where I've been (imagine Uncle Fester) and I have a long way to go still, and every once in a while I like to test the waters to see what people have to say. Usually it's a bit more constructive than OMGZORZ! FAIL! YOU NEED BOTOX AND FFS! MY SCREEN IS MELTING!!!!

Hi butterflies, what do you think of my avatar pic?  Pictriev rated it 99% feminine, but I have my doubts.  What are your thoughts?

Quote from: Shodan on October 18, 2014, 06:41:29 PM
Just wondering. You tore into me pretty hard, and was equally hypercritical to two other posters. if it was just me, I would have just shrugged it off and not said anything. I mean, I know I don't pass. I probably never will. This is the most feminine I've ever gotten. I don't have gobs of money to do surgery on my face (not that I would want to, anyway) to make me passable. Hell, I don't have any money to buy any kind of makeup, so I make do with what I have. I mean, I've come a long way from where I've been (imagine Uncle Fester) and I have a long way to go still, and every once in a while I like to test the waters to see what people have to say. Usually it's a bit more constructive than OMGZORZ! FAIL! YOU NEED BOTOX AND FFS! MY SCREEN IS MELTING!!!!

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to hurt you. I've been hurt too. I've been hurt by people who told me I looked pretty at a point when I really didn't. And I had the money to do something about it if people had told me what to fix instead of lying to me :/ it's one thing to have thread for compliments only where everyone gets to feel good even if they're not in a good place. But this is just a normal PYP& get rated thread and in those I imagine ppl want honesty. People who actually have a reason to worry about passing ESPECIALLY.
I really didn't mean it that badly though, sorry if it came off that way :/

Quote from: missymay on October 18, 2014, 07:00:22 PM
Hi butterflies, what do you think of my avatar pic?  Pictriev rated it 99% feminine, but I have my doubts.  What are your thoughts?

You pass. you look like a woman. Though your jawline isn't so great..did you get your nose done?

Quote from: Jade_404 on October 09, 2014, 12:19:06 AM

Hi Butterflies, I like your brutal honesty. So give this one a go! Yes I know i have been cursed with a huge adams apple and I will need that fixed for sure. I am scared of doctors, so as little FFS as possible is what I am hoping. My computer rates me female 98% of the time even without makeup. We all know not to trust computers tho, thats how skynet takes over...

Quote from: butterflies on October 18, 2014, 07:22:18 PM
You pass. you look like a woman. Though your jawline isn't so great..did you get your nose done?

Yes, I agree that my jaw needs some improvement, but at 51, I'm not complaining too much  
And yes, I did have my nose done.

Quote from: missymay on October 18, 2014, 07:57:51 PM
Yes, I agree that my jaw needs some improvement, but at 51, I'm not complaining too much  
And yes, I did have my nose done.

See? My eyes aren't that bad after all
Still, it's just my opinion. Different ppl see things differently. But I honestly doubt anyone would see you as anything but a woman based on those pics.

Quote from: Jade_404 on October 18, 2014, 07:57:36 PM
Hi Butterflies, I like your brutal honesty. So give this one a go! Yes I know i have been cursed with a huge adams apple and I will need that fixed for sure. I am scared of doctors, so as little FFS as possible is what I am hoping. My computer rates me female 98% of the time even without makeup. We all know not to trust computers tho, thats how skynet takes over...if

You're not awful but not completely passable either. Your second pic is better in every way. Do you see that upside down split V like / \ between your eyebrows? Genetic females rarely get that or if they do the lines are a lot thinner. Females tend to get more vertical lines though. Your chin is pretty bad, you should have half cut right off. But not straight off (U shape) then you'll have an even more masculine jaw. You need to cut it into a gentle v shape. Korea is good for that but not the popular clinics. Just do a lot of research before even
considering it. Don't trust US surgeons for your face. They have almost no experience because it's a taboo In the west. Especially in America where anything but"you're beautiful just the way you are" is blasphemy. YOUR welcome to pm me about this but I won't recommend a single clinic to you. Instead, I'll help you do research if it's really what you want. And you can ask me for an opinion about any clinic in Seoul. I will tell you what I know if I know that clinic.
Your nose looks like a certain Brazilian fruit that's both eaten and used for making instruments. It's a typical male nose. You'd want to get it done too. Since you don't want multiple operations you could get it done at the same time but then you'd have a hard time breathing. And it's better to use a doctor who specializes in what you want,a nose doctor for nose and maxillofacial specialist (very highly specialized dental surgeon) for your jaw. Anything else IF too risky especially :in your a so if you want both you'll have to suffer two surgeries. Your upper body is androgynous but not exactly male. Did you used to do drugs? eating disorder?  I hope neither.

Butterflies,  I don't wish to read anything into the way you're conducting yourself here, but it's not in a sensitive and supportive manner. Even having the courage to publicly post an image here is truly courageous. It's so hard to put yourself out there when confidence is lacking. Do your words hinder or support the confidence of the women here? I'm sure you can read between the lines.

The women here putting themselves out there need to feel unjudged and supported. And it takes a great deal of sensitivity and understanding to be able to provide honest and supportive feedback.

Your is but one voice. Coming across without the sentivity needed. Coming across with a sense of authority. It's not helpful.

Please think before you type. The women here need love and support. Even if a little sugar coated, responses have to be kind and sensitive.

Thanks Butterflies,

I appreciate your input. I asked for brutal. Honestly if I could just pass as even an ugly girl that would be fine. Sick of confusing people. I am 40 years old and have chronic Lymes Disease, I do not heal well. Drastic surgeries are out of the question. Took 9 month to heal a broken rib last year, ruined all my summer fun Doctors botched my special "package" when I was a baby so ANY visit to a doctor is traumatic for me. I will get a trach shave and probably botox to fix the / \  which is from 40 years of scowling to come off as male and tough. I am not on HRT yet and I doubt it will do much to my old ugly face anyway once I do get on it. My nose was broken 3 times, and yeah I hate it, but its mine and I am gonna live with it. I know chicks with bigger manlier noses, haha! I don't care to be beautiful, or to look like a hot chick or anything, I am too old for that.  I would not trust US surgeons for ANYTHING, but thanks for the tip. I don't go out much or deal with the public in my job so I can probably get by with just barely passing. I also have the night on my side since I am always up at night and asleep during day. Again thanks for your valuable input, mostly I would worry about getting beat down for being a freak which has happened once. Hell I was not even trying to present as female then.

Quote from: SammyRose on October 18, 2014, 09:30:58 PM
Butterflies,  I don't wish to read anything into the way you're conducting yourself here, but it's not in a sensitive and supportive manner. Even having the courage to publicly post an image here is truly courageous. It's so hard to put yourself out there when confidence is lacking. Do your words hinder or support the confidence of the women here? I'm sure you can read between the lines.

The women here putting themselves out there need to feel unjudged and supported. And it takes a great deal of sensitivity and understanding to be able to provide honest and supportive feedback.

Your is but one voice. Coming across without the sentivity needed. Coming across with a sense of authority. It's not helpful.

Please think before you type. The women here need love and support. Even if a little sugar coated, responses have to be kind and sensitive.

I do agree that maybe some "sugar" could be added. I have a hard time saying anything that might come across as mean to anyone. Others flow that naturally. I think that in a way butterflies posts are a good indicator of how others in society will view us. I am strong enough to handle the critique, but others may not be. So yeah, maybe just not so brutal in your honesty butterflies? Maybe slightly brutal?  It does take a ton of courage to even post a pic here. In butterflies defense I did ask specifically for their input and I knew it would be brutal, hehe.

Love Jade

While brutal honesty is on the table-how about me, going my my profile pic? What more can I do?  I'm two years into hormones right now, and surgery is NOT on the table-I'm an artist, and there is not going to be any money in my future once I graduate.  And PLEASE, Don't tell me I do pass, because I know for a fact that I don't.  Frankly, while insensitivity might be hurtful, this thread has a HUGE amount of sugar coating.  I don't need afirmation folks, I need honesty and advice as to how I can fix it.  Thanks!

Quote from: SammyRose on October 18, 2014, 09:30:58 PM
Butterflies,  I don't wish to read anything into the way you're conducting yourself here, but it's not in a sensitive and supportive manner. Even having the courage to publicly post an image here is truly courageous. It's so hard to put yourself out there when confidence is lacking. Do your words hinder or support the confidence of the women here? I'm sure you can read between the lines.

The women here putting themselves out there need to feel unjudged and supported. And it takes a great deal of sensitivity and understanding to be able to provide honest and supportive feedback.

Your is but one voice. Coming across without the sentivity needed. Coming across with a sense of authority. It's not helpful.

Please think before you type. The women here need love and support. Even if a little sugar coated, responses have to be kind and sensitive.

Yes, more courageous than I could do,I have no problem admitting that. I mean, I've submitted my pictures to heterosexual men, some even from the boondocks of the most judgmental people imaginable, so I guess I'm my own kind of courageous. But that took a lot out of me so...it's not easy for anyone. Anyway, the real world isn't sugar coated. I see some really heavy handed sugar coating here which I'd call dousing in maple syrup and caramel sauce until you can't see what's underneath. If I looked like some people here and got the comments they got and went out in false confidence only to face looks and whispers and giggles and talk, I'd consider those people not only not my friends but some of the cruelest people around. I'd consider their syrupy words an act of despising and hatred. I like to go by results rather than intent. You know what they say about good intent and paving roads...
Still, I'm sorry if I offended anyone without offering anything positive.

Quote from: Jade_404 on October 18, 2014, 09:49:44 PM
I do agree that maybe some "sugar" could be added. I have a hard time saying anything that might come across as mean to anyone. Others flow that naturally. I think that in a way butterflies posts are a good indicator of how others in society will view us. I am strong enough to handle the critique, but others may not be. So yeah, maybe just not so brutal in your honesty butterflies? Maybe slightly brutal?  It does take a ton of courage to even post a pic here. In butterflies defense I did ask specifically for their input and I knew it would be brutal, hehe.

Love Jade

That's exactly what I want to offer! Unlike most of you, I'm adapted to the mean, judgmental society (well more than one ) that is the society as it currently stands.is it great and wonderful? No, it is what it is, but iI livein it and iI like it to an extent. I enjoy being part of it as someone relatively normal. I mean, I can be a weird girl and I always have been
I can't be a weird trans and I can't be proud of a fault. No one should be proud of a mental illness, birth defect, or anything like that. I'm not sorry to say I don't think that will make the world a better place.

So that's what I want to offer. How the world sees you.not how some people in California see you.how people from Arabia to Cambodia see you. How Joe the coon tailor in Alaska sees you. How Mark the deer hunter in Kentucky sees you.
Otherwise you'll always be living in a tiny little bubble isolated from the mean world outside. But the thing about bubbles is...eventually they burst. And the bigger the bubble, the more it hurts.


My previous post wasn't submitted completely. The nurses took out my drains so I was kinda busy... I edited it.
I'll try a light sugar coating then... But if anyone doesn't want me in this thread, that's fine. Really, I'm not against censorship either