Olivia, you sound very good! Does it take much effort though? My #1 fear is being out in public then calling out to one of my kids in panic, then suddenly the male voice comes out and turns heads for the wrong reasons. 

It is not too hard no, to speak at least. I think this is because I took so long to get there. It is quite similar to how I was *trying* before, except the control and strength has developed in the muscles around that area enables me to hold it steady reasonably well. So it does not sound horrible, shaky and strained. I have not really tried shouting with it yet though, like seriously I only just got to this point of it not sounding bad within the last couple weeks, far as I can tell.

I think though to get to the point where you can just use it without thinking means you have to be using your voice more often than not. Some people on forums have said this takes around a month, to get to the point of being able to use it without thinking ie. in panic. Then again shouting out is harder still and will probably require specific practicing.

Thanks for the compliments though, you really cannot believe how happy I am to have gotten to this point and for people to be saying it sounds OK and for me to hear it sounding OK! I am not exaggerating on the time it took. It sounds though like I had a worse starting position than you? Like at this point I feel like with the determination anyone can do this. So I am sure you can sort it out too! If you want any more specific stuff though I do have records of pretty much the whole process. I am more than happy to help in any way I can if you have any trouble, cause seriously this was the #1 obstacle for me.

PS South African accent is cool too, I like it, and Afrikaans is crazy. I am a fan of Die Antwoord 

Quote from: ImagineKate on November 12, 2014, 02:51:38 PM
Olivia, you sound very good! Does it take much effort though? My #1 fear is being out in public then calling out to one of my kids in panic, then suddenly the male voice comes out and turns heads for the wrong reasons.

Yes, this is a very valid concern. My voice doesn't work well at high volume.  But Kate, it's not common to need to shriek in public, so work on the 95% of situations where a normal volume voice is needed.

I can't remember whose addage this is - "Speak softly and carry a big stick" 

Sears (or Olivia?) - Quite a difference between the two voices. The higher pitch voice sounds quite good. But my advice would be not to push it that hard upwards. I think you may be overdoing it. The voice sounds quite good but to me it also sounds a little bit strained still and I think it defeinitely sounds breathy in parts. Which is a more feminine quality but can alo be too much at times and it takes away a lot of air, so you maybe need to catch breath a lot more often. I doubt you can speak very loud in that voice either - it sounds like it is still not established enough for that. Also it does not go with the breathyness.
So generally maybe you should settle for an Alto voice instead of a soprano (depending on how your personality and body is - if you are tiny and feminine a high pitch is ok, if you are tall or bi or more athletic or are a bit of a craftswoman, maybe a more medium or lower female range would suit you) and do some exercises that are made to get a good singing voice - like airflow exercises. It also pay off to regularly visit a voice specialist to chek if you are doing something that causes damage - happened to me.

Interesting thread and one that's been on the front of my mind for a long time. Given where I live (Anchorage Alaska) there are few resources available here. I'm looking into speech therapy but I don't know of any with any experience working with our community and honestly, I'm not sure how well I would do with YT lessons or DeepStealth, etc. I'm giving very serious consideration to the Yeson procedure due to the, so far, apparent lack of other options for me here in Alaska.

Soundcloud name is Olivia hence the double name issue

Well thing is that pitch is not actually too hard for me, I am pushing it a little though ofc. An earlier recording in the does my voice pass thread averages at 11hz higher on the mean average, but that one was for sure strained. Also it is not quite as breathy as it sounds I do not think, it is somewhat emphasized by the microphone being practically in my mouth. It is still very much a work in progress and I am still working on stabilizing it at that pitch, like I would be pretty happy with a slightly lower pitch. After all 250hz is higher than some people after Yeson. I can practice with this voice for quite some time though without getting a sore throat at all. I do know what the pain feels like too from practice long ago! I do appreciate the warning though and understand it, I have read your posts some time ago with regards to your voice issues. Depending on how it goes I do have a speech therapist who I may end up calling some time to get an opinion from. When I feel I have reached the precipice of personal learning.

Yea, as for what kinda voice I wanna end up with though it is hard to find what I want. See although I am 6ft tall I also weigh only 126lb (57kg), due to ridiculous metabolism and extremely slight frame (for a male). Oh but I can speak pretty loud I think because a lot of my practice is made up by (terrible) singing. I do imagine my final voice may be a little lower pitch though you know, but I think a little push while learning (and being careful not to overdo it while training muscles and making sure to always have a glass of water at hand) and then dropping back into a slightly more accessible register for real life will be best?

Danke schone fur die Rat ?


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How long you been workin it Wynternight?

Quote from: Seras on November 12, 2014, 05:36:11 PM
Soundcloud name is Olivia hence the double name issue

Well thing is that pitch is not actually too hard for me, I am pushing it a little though ofc. An earlier recording in the does my voice pass thread averages at 11hz higher on the mean average, but that one was for sure strained. Also it is not quite as breathy as it sounds I do not think, it is somewhat emphasized by the microphone being practically in my mouth. It is still very much a work in progress and I am still working on stabilizing it at that pitch, like I would be pretty happy with a slightly lower pitch. After all 250hz is higher than some people after Yeson. I can practice with this voice for quite some time though without getting a sore throat at all. I do know what the pain feels like too from practice long ago! I do appreciate the warning though and understand it, I have read your posts some time ago with regards to your voice issues. Depending on how it goes I do have a speech therapist who I may end up calling some time to get an opinion from. When I feel I have reached the precipice of personal learning.

Yea, as for what kinda voice I wanna end up with though it is hard to find what I want. See although I am 6ft tall I also weigh only 126lb (57kg), due to ridiculous metabolism and extremely slight frame (for a male). Oh but I can speak pretty loud I think because a lot of my practice is made up by (terrible) singing. I do imagine my final voice may be a little lower pitch though you know, but I think a little push while learning (and being careful not to overdo it while training muscles and making sure to always have a glass of water at hand) and then dropping back into a slightly more accessible register for real life will be best?

Danke schone fur die Rat ?


---

How long you been workin it Wynternight?

Interesting thing: since my hiatal hernia repair I've noticed a decrease in my lung capacity that has made singing a right chore. I'm also unable to give a good cough or laugh. I'm wondering if there isn't some nerve damage in my diaphragm from the surgery. I've found that voice practice of any kind these days is hard and I think I'm compensating in other ways because I feel an almost constant tension in my vocal cords. I'm going to call the surgeon and try and get some answers and I'd really like to see a speech therapist even aside from the voice training for transition.

Definitely sounds like a good idea to get a specialist involved if you got that kinda problem.

Quote from: Seras on November 11, 2014, 11:25:31 PM
2) Obviously Kate you do not sound female in either of those recordings. Nice luck on the lack of voicebox though wish I was that lucky. I look like I am halfway through swallowing an ostrich egg. Anyway clearly your pitch is not high enough, nor is your resonance and thus your tone of voice sounding correct. For me pitch was easy, the real challenge was resonance. I say "was" tentatively since my voice is still very much a WIP and I have only just got it to a point where I think it sounds acceptable.

Thanks. I "lucked out" I guess although I wish that came with a female voice (and body). I know the voice is definitely nowhere near female but I'm at a starting point now.

Quote1) Get really anxious and embarrassed about practicing, plus, over the fear of trying in case I failed. All i could really do was sing along with stuff in the car when I was driving. Obviously female musicians. So that was pretty much all I did for a few months. I would occasionally try practicing easy phrases or counting in a high pitch. I didn't even know about resonance at this point. This lasted a long time since I was too scared and embarrassed to even practice properly.

This is me although I'm starting to sing more with 80s bands such as REO Speedwagon and Air Supply to start. Then I will move on to female musicians... my music library is full of Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey so you can see my dilemma. 

Practicing at work is no-go as I am all over the place and it's pretty much an open environment. At home apart from all the chores there is also my wife who still gets upset when I do girly stuff, so I really don't want to do this in front of her. We also commute together so it's like I'm under constant supervision so I can't practice in the car except for singing. And she's a mess these days emotionally (even more so since I came out) so I don't want to add even more to it.

I figure though that if I'm paying for voice lessons I could be free to practice there and then work up the courage to practice at home. So right now I'm shopping around for a speech therapist.

Quote2) I had to go all femmed up for an appointment at the UK GIC (don't ask) so I was worried and wanted to be able to speak, so I practiced non stop for 4 months. I tried loads of stuff. It was like banging my head against a wall. Nothing worked. I tried candifla, I tried that deepstealth stuff, pretty much if it was on youtube or well known at all I got it checked it out and discarded it.

I tried a bit of deepstealth and it is hard. Tried a bit of CandiFLA, it's hard. But I am trying. There are a few things I notice about my voice. One is that I have vocal fry on the lower end, and at lower volume. The other is that it is nasal. My glasses press my nose so I'm going to probably get rid of them and get contacts or do eye surgery (PRK/Lasik). I have been meaning to do that for a while now anyway. The bigger thing is that I have a gap between my high end and falsetto where absolutely nothing but air comes out. I suppose everyone has this? I dunno. Anyway these things I need to ask about when I see the voice therapist.

Quote5) I practiced on and off very sporadically between then and about a month ago then I started practicing again and it is like I actually made progress without trying. I honestly think it is all about the muscle control, building and development of that. Maybe HRT matters to some degree too, plus I did give up smoking 3 months ago though I never smoked much anyway. Oh and also, if you are having trouble like I did/am, a whole lot of determination.

If I am having normal conversation I can easily do 150-160Hz without even trying. even 170-180 if I raise it a bit. But the time I sit down to read something it drops back... I do some speaking in front of audiences and at church. I have no idea of the pitch but I've been told I sound powerful, so I assume that means low.

So I have my initial consultation tomorrow with a speech pathologist. I'm pretty excited. Let's see what she'll say.

For you girls that have had one on one professional help, how did the initial consultation go?

In addition to feminizing my voice, I would like to get rid of my slight accent. But here's the rub - when I go visit my old country, for my safety it is crucial that my voice passes 100%. And I usually talk like a local without even thinking (because technically I am one.) So I may have to figure out something.

I hope it goes well Kate

I am still tryin to work the breathiness out of my voice. I will be happy to hear how it goes cause if I continue to fail to improve I will be doing the same as you!

Initial consult went well. I'm having a full evaluation in a couple of weeks and then we can decide from there what is best.

She said my voice isn't all that low (but clearly in the male range) and that I have some issues with enunciation, especially "ing" and "th" but we will fix that.

I also mentioned my Caribbean accent and she said she won't take that away from me. It is very important for me to sound female when I visit the old country as a safety issue.

I've been training myself for the past three months by watching youtube videos mainly. My voice sounds good when speaking in a normal voice even on the phone but once I try speaking loudly or shouting (say when I'm in a club or bar) it doesn't work!! Does anyone know why this might be the case??

My technique includes squezzing my throat, highering pitch a little bit and adding breathiness. My main focus has been on reducing chest resonance and speaking "from the head and neck" if that makes sense!

Hi, as you know if you read this thread I am still working on my voice. However I believe you speak louder by expanding the area you allow the voice to reverberate in. With a male voice this will be by allowing it to shake around all over your chest. I believe if you want to do it with a feminine voice you need to try and make it reverberate all around your head more. How exactly to accomplish this I am not 100% sure. Try checking out mask resonance, I think it is a singing thing. I think that is what you gotta do and is something I plan to look into soon.

BTW when I visit my old country I would have to sound somewhat like this, just a little younger.

http://www.dialectsarchive.com/trinidad-3

I have a new mic setup I'm going to try and I'll read "Comma Gets a cure" and do another recording in my native accent.

I can't add a lot here I'm sorry as I'm yet to begin my voice training, apart from some personal attempts here and there. I have had a session though with my Speech Therapist, this was more about planning what and when we're going to seriously start working on this. What she did tell me was that pitch is only one ever so small part of the overall voice. Speech, pronunciations and the way we carry those words were her recommendations and what we'll be working on in January when I start regular Speech Therapy sessions. I would suggest finding a speech therapist who is experienced in Male to Female Trans speech requirements. Mine is and its a comfort to know.

Quote from: ImagineKate on November 20, 2014, 04:13:46 PM
BTW when I visit my old country I would have to sound somewhat like this, just a little younger.

Kate, this is an interesting one, although, having watched my accent move about through three country changes, you'll probably naturally gravitate to it once you have been there for a few days.

But accents and having to deal with different languages simultaneously do present some challenges, since you have to learn how women inflect their speech for multiple languages or regions.  I feel that I sound much more female in English and less so in Spanish, for example.  But it's subjective.  Probably it's not important.

Julia

If you get the infelctions wrong because it is a foreign language - would that matter? After all any other woman who has to learn some new language will probably also get the infections wrong at first - and after some time in the country it will adapt, wouldnt it?

Quote from: anjaq on November 22, 2014, 12:19:31 PM
If you get the infelctions wrong because it is a foreign language - would that matter? After all any other woman who has to learn some new language will probably also get the infections wrong at first - and after some time in the country it will adapt, wouldnt it?

The problem is that this is my native accent and if I don't sound natural I would be read rather quickly.

Unfortunately it is a safety issue as gays get 25 years in jail and transgender people are lumped in with them, plus violence can and does happen (and I can't carry a weapon or even mace or pepper spray there). The laws are rarely enforced but there is always the risk...

In any case my speech therapist assures me that she would be able to work with the accent as well. The inflections for that dialect aren't hard to learn.

Wow - I would be scared to go back there no matter what. And certainly only after GRS - Tough - do you still have family and friends there to return to? Did you move out of the country to transition?