It's kind of stressing me out trying to figure out where binary gender ends and non binary gender begins. It's a major component of why I've delayed medical transition despite it being what I probably need.

I keep on being drawn to an androgyne state of being, and in turn finding pleasure in feminine features that would otherwise cause dysphoria. I thought this disqualified me as an FTM, and so I gave up the idea of transition and identified as genderqueer. However, that term didn't and still don't properly describe who I am and how I feel. I keep on sliding on the spectrum between male and androgyne, settling on something that is male but not quite.

I have it in my head that never sliding in the spectrum of female to androgyne and wishing to be seen as primarily male implies that I'm more binary than non binary. Yet, at the same time, I'm not comfortable with being 100%, and want to love and embrace the androgynous body that hormones would bring, especially since I've come to the conclusion that being trans is a gift the Spirits want me to have.

I think my angst comes from two issues: one, desiring a androgyne body might cause healthcare providers to deny medical transition under the belief that my desire to be "the opposite gender" is not strong enough; and two, while non binary genders have plethora of diversity, there is subtle implication in Western society and language that there is only one way to be binary. Then that leads me to another rabbit hole: If binary gender becomes as diversified as non binary, where the Sam Hill the difference between the two start. I'm start to come to the point that for me the whole binary vs. non binary thing is useful.

You know, the more I think about my life, I keep on finding over and over again that I know who I truly am but I become insecure in the face of the scary world. I live in constant anxiety, and sacrifice thriving for surviving (not just the trans stuff but all areas of my life; my disability influences this a bit).

What are your thoughts on my conundrums, and this matter in general? I thank you for your time.

There is no line. 

Quote from: Satyrane on November 21, 2014, 05:00:54 PM
It's kind of stressing me out trying to figure out where binary gender ends and non binary gender begins. It's a major component of why I've delayed medical transition despite it being what I probably need.

I keep on being drawn to an androgyne state of being, and in turn finding pleasure in feminine features that would otherwise cause dysphoria. I thought this disqualified me as an FTM, and so I gave up the idea of transition and identified as genderqueer. However, that term didn't and still don't properly describe who I am and how I feel. I keep on sliding on the spectrum between male and androgyne, settling on something that is male but not quite.

I have it in my head that never sliding in the spectrum of female to androgyne and wishing to be seen as primarily male implies that I'm more binary than non binary. Yet, at the same time, I'm not comfortable with being 100%, and want to love and embrace the androgynous body that hormones would bring, especially since I've come to the conclusion that being trans is a gift the Spirits want me to have.

I think my angst comes from two issues: one, desiring a androgyne body might cause healthcare providers to deny medical transition under the belief that my desire to be "the opposite gender" is not strong enough; and two, while non binary genders have plethora of diversity, there is subtle implication in Western society and language that there is only one way to be binary. Then that leads me to another rabbit hole: If binary gender becomes as diversified as non binary, where the Sam Hill the difference between the two start. I'm start to come to the point that for me the whole binary vs. non binary thing is useful.

You know, the more I think about my life, I keep on finding over and over again that I know who I truly am but I become insecure in the face of the scary world. I live in constant anxiety, and sacrifice thriving for surviving (not just the trans stuff but all areas of my life; my disability influences this a bit).

What are your thoughts on my conundrums, and this matter in general? I thank you for your time.

There is no line, there is only truth and your truth is the only truth that matters.  Once you understand and accept who you are then how you choose to express this is your decision.  There are many non binaries who undertake a binary transition and then flex their presentation,  others seek this point of equilibrium within their birth gender by utilising surgery, medical measures (low dose hrt) and a change in presentation.

In the end it is your journey.  The journey to authenticity has many surprises and many twists and turns.  There are no absolutes but only unexpected joy, growth, learning and self awareness.  I wish you well.  It takes a while but one step at a time is usually enough.

Safe travels

Aisla

Just be you.. Where I've ended up was not where I planned on ending up, but I'm happy. It was my therapist who first suggested I might be genderqueer. He wasn't quite right, but it did make me think.

And if there is a line, I'm pretty sure it's where ever you decide it is.

Quote from: Jill F on November 21, 2014, 05:03:01 PM
There is no line.

I find I have to agree with this.
I've also wondered where the line is. Like you, I wish to be seen primarily as male, but don't feel comfortable being considered 100% binary. I switch between wanting a completely male body and a more androgynous body (granted, that may be due to dysphoria fluctuations) and, while I always identify as male, sometimes I identify as an androgyne or male and female. But I still want to be seen as just as much of a male as any other male. Just Loki-like I guess. If that makes sense.
So am I binary or non-binary? I think I'm both. Does it really matter where the line is? Why does there need to be a line?
It also gets confusing because the line is in different places according to different people.

we all (cis and trans and non-binary) live in a continuum... no line.... 

Quote from: Jill F on November 21, 2014, 05:03:01 PM
There is no line. 

The cake is lie! I agree. Pretty much everything in the universe in the world is shades of gray. The problem comes that Western culture and language is limited with describing anything with fluidity, especially with the dualism perspective it developed. I think my insecurity comes from the fact I need to pick a word to describe myself in the simplest way to folk, healthcare providers in particular.

Quote from: Aisla on November 21, 2014, 05:15:10 PM
There is no line, there is only truth and your truth is the only truth that matters.  Once you understand and accept who you are then how you choose to express this is your decision.  There are many non binaries who undertake a binary transition and then flex their presentation,  others seek this point of equilibrium within their birth gender by utilising surgery, medical measures (low dose hrt) and a change in presentation.

In the end it is your journey.  The journey to authenticity has many surprises and many twists and turns.  There are no absolutes but only unexpected joy, growth, learning and self awareness.  I wish you well.  It takes a while but one step at a time is usually enough.

Safe travels

Aisla

I thank you dearly for your kind words. I am in a position to agree with your sentiment. It's the social anxiety that's killing me, and with my disability it's never going to fully go away, and something I have to deal with to my grave. I have to come up with methods to sooth myself, and give myself the confidence to be myself. Once again, deepest thanks.

Quote from: Edge on November 21, 2014, 05:25:08 PM
I find I have to agree with this.
I've also wondered where the line is. Like you, I wish to be seen primarily as male, but don't feel comfortable being considered 100% binary. I switch between wanting a completely male body and a more androgynous body (granted, that may be due to dysphoria fluctuations) and, while I always identify as male, sometimes I identify as an androgyne or male and female. But I still want to be seen as just as much of a male as any other male. Just Loki-like I guess. If that makes sense.
So am I binary or non-binary? I think I'm both. Does it really matter where the line is? Why does there need to be a line?
It also gets confusing because the line is in different places according to different people.

Yes, yes! My issue exactly. It's interesting you mention Loki. Even as a small child, I have always taken comfort in mythological figures and the spirit world when it comes to my gender identity. The realm of religion and spirituality is reach with figures of gender variance and fluidity, and explores the scarceness of it. Working with the Daemons I worship have been a crucial step in accepting myself.

doctors are becoming more  enlightened my care team just wants me to  find  my place   no hoops to jump through, you just need  to find the proper care

I consider myself non-binary. I had no trouble getting approval for hormones and for surgery. My therapist was very clear that what was important was how I needed to live and not how my internal gender was characterized.

I live full-time as a woman. I love it, even though I still have male elements to my identity.

Quote from: Satyrane on November 21, 2014, 05:38:00 PM
Yes, yes! My issue exactly. It's interesting you mention Loki. Even as a small child, I have always taken comfort in mythological figures and the spirit world when it comes to my gender identity. The realm of religion and spirituality is reach with figures of gender variance and fluidity, and explores the scarceness of it. Working with the Daemons I worship have been a crucial step in accepting myself.

That the trickster God is non-binary, gender fluid or even genderless appeals to me.  The notion that the gods are defined in terms of He and She opens the door to all kinds of foolishness IMHO.  Maybe that is why there is so much trouble in the world and insistence on a particular God (or Gods) as the only true source of virtue.

Julie

I identify as a man but I'm not really sure if that makes me binary. At the same time I'm not sure I identify as non-binary. I'm looking forward to having a more masculine body so my presentation can be more androgynous without sparking dysphoria. To me that is mostly topsurgery and what T can give me. At the moment I feel uncomfortable presenting in the way I'd want because my body doesn't match that image in my head. I also quite enjoy some of my more feminine traits like my eyes and I don't want to change my behavior to what is considered masculine.

I've thougth about maybe being nonbinary as well but at the moment it doesn't really matter to me. I enjoy being seen as a man and being adressed that way, as long a I'm allowed to be myself and don't have to conform to the 'rules'. I know what I want my body to look like. I do think 'man' and 'woman' have much more variation in them then society sometimes acts like. So I happen to be one of the variations :p

Quote from: NathanielM on December 14, 2014, 02:50:49 PM
I identify as a man but I'm not really sure if that makes me binary. At the same time I'm not sure I identify as non-binary. I'm looking forward to having a more masculine body so my presentation can be more androgynous without sparking dysphoria. To me that is mostly topsurgery and what T can give me. At the moment I feel uncomfortable presenting in the way I'd want because my body doesn't match that image in my head. I also quite enjoy some of my more feminine traits like my eyes and I don't want to change my behavior to what is considered masculine.

I've thougth about maybe being nonbinary as well but at the moment it doesn't really matter to me. I enjoy being seen as a man and being adressed that way, as long a I'm allowed to be myself and don't have to conform to the 'rules'. I know what I want my body to look like. I do think 'man' and 'woman' have much more variation in them then society sometimes acts like. So I happen to be one of the variations :p

How you identify is neither correct nor incorrect.  The important thing is does it work for you or not.  That you see yourself as a man with a feminine side is what is important.  It is not required that you adopt what anyone else's idea is.  That is what living between the two poles of binary identification is all about.  You are fine as you are, and should be accepted and respected as such.  Sure confuses the normies though 

Julie

it is ok to transition and to be non binary! I came to that realization finally after along time of dealing with doubt over whether I was male or female. it turns out im not either. this isn't going to stop me from taking hormones to look like a women. just do what ever you think feels right. Maybe you feel like a good label would be trans masculine instead of trans man

Clearly this is my day for posts that speak my truth!

Aside from that, you might want to take a look at the latest WPATH standards as it seems to me, and others, that "gender non-conforming" (e.g., non-binary) is "good enough." They've moved away from the "I've always felt I was born in the wrong body" approach.

Be well.

There must be some line, because I am told that I cross it, quite frequently.
As to correctness, authenticity is key