I know that I don't currently pass. I've maxed out what makeup can do for me. I just have to wait for the hormones to do their thing.

Painter, I'm going to agree with Carli on this.  I think you may be sending mixed signals.

I know a few trans people who started out identifying as queer and wound up being much closer to the binary than they expected.  I suspect you may be on a similar path.  You say you're definitely trying to go more towards the feminine, but do you maybe still have some queer mannerisms and traits that are outing you?  I understand your principles, but if you're not really queer anymore, does it make sense to hold onto an identity that is no longer you?

BTW, from your avatar I think you're really cute.  You've got potential.  If your overall presentation was more standard for a while, I bet you'd begin to blend in and really take on the new female role.  And then like Dread you could later move back towards the queer look if you wanted to.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on February 13, 2015, 10:42:35 AM
Calicarly,

I am MtF; I also identify as genderqueer, but that has a lot more to do with my beliefs about the subject of gender, and does not influence my presentation in any way.  I don't "believe" in binary gender per se, but we do live in a binary world, and regardless of what I want to do wrt my presentation, passing is something you just need to do if you're going to be treated fairly in the world.  I'm tired of everyone seeing me as a trans woman, because when they do I am obligated to see myself the same way.  My assumption is not wrong.  I'm two years on HRT already-I'm beginning to believe my fate is sealed.  Idk-you just think things are going to be different, and then-they aren't.  I know I do get looks, and nobody, in my life, has ever flirted with me, so...I guess I don't.  What else is there to change, is I guess the only question I have left?  And when I can't answer that, perhaps it's time to consider going back.  Yeah, I'm depressed, but not without reason.  If your transition had failed, you would feel the same way.

Thanks for the advice-it means a lot.

You may not believe in binary gender, but society does.  Androgyny can be beautiful.  Andreja Pejić gained international renown for being a pretty and androgynous model.  Following her example, you are faced with a choice however: give up androgyny and commit to being perceived as female, or live under the microscope of people's scrutiny.  There are women with MRKH, or indistinct/partially developed reproductive organs, intersex, and GID who all muddle the gender spectrum.  And they don't tend to be viewed favorably in general, less so the more conservative the person.
I am a woman.  Transgender is what cispeople call me.  And I'm not done with my transition, nor do I believe there is an actual end to it, but there are fun milestones along the way.
Fate is what you make of it.  If you want to fit in as a woman, don't wear alternative hair unless you want to move to a more bohemian area to get more appreciation of the statement.  I got plenty of looks when I dyed my hair blue.  Not because people were misgendering me, but because they were like, "What on earth would possess someone to dye their hair blue?"  Having an exotic hair color can put other people off, and they won't be friendly with you.  Would you flirt or act friendly with someone you perceived as intimidating and weird?  What if they also seemed withdrawn, nervous, or standoffish?  It seems like you may be preempting social situations with disengagement.

Penultimate thing: it is unfair to characterize or describe other people's thoughts, feelings and perceptions.  While people will more often react to your presentation and body language before anything else, you can never truly know what they are thinking at a given moment.  Judge not lest ye be judged.
Also, men will often not flirt with you until after first receiving an invitation from you, e.g.: meeting their eyes and holding their gaze across the room with a coy smile, accidental physical contact followed by friendly banter, overtly fellating a straw while making eye contact, etc..
Finally, when there's a will there's a way.  Don't give up hope.  Good luck.


     Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from Katie's iPad using Tapatalk
Few edits to reword awkward sentences...

Quote from: Obfuskatie on February 14, 2015, 06:17:06 AM
Penultimate thing: it is unfair to characterize or describe other people's thoughts, feelings and perceptions.  While people will more often react to your presentation and body language before anything else, you can never truly know what they are thinking at a given moment.  Judge not lest ye be judged.

This ^ is so true. I was having a dimsum with a friend yesterday and the cook keeps looking at me and smiling. My initial thought was he clocked me that's why he's smiling and making gestures. But do I truly know what he's thinking? NO. I cannot obsess over their thoughts and their reactions coz it could be one:
1. It was just me and my girlfriend and we ordered 8 plates of different dim sum and maybe he's happy he made some money.
2. Maybe he finds me attractive or
3. He knows I am trans (whatever)

so just live your life babe - I promise it's going to get better. Also, maybe try to blend in more socially in appearance. I know you have a great fashion sense but I find that if I dress up the way a 34 y.o CIS woman does out there, the more I blend in and the less I get the looks.

Quote from: Obfuskatie on February 14, 2015, 06:17:06 AM
Also, men will often not flirt with you until after first receiving an invitation from you, e.g.: meeting their eyes and holding their gaze across the room with a coy smile, accidental physical contact followed by friendly banter, overtly fellating a straw while making eye contact, etc..
Finally, when there's a will there's a way.  Don't give up hope.  Good luck.

This Obfuskatie, you need to teach me LOL. I am too shy and when a guy looks at me I just look away - awful.


Love,

April

Do I not dress like a cis woman?  Yet another thing I was unaware of.

It's hard to gauge as I have not seen you in public or seen a pic of you dressed up. Either way, just observe women your age wear and start from there and this can include overall appearance. Again, this is totally up to you. We can only give you suggestions at the end of the day it's your call.

As I have said in the past, you are beautiful. Be strong and transition does not end it's a continuous process. Btw, I wish I had your body just saying

April

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on February 14, 2015, 11:50:50 AM
Do I not dress like a cis woman?  Yet another thing I was unaware of.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on February 14, 2015, 11:50:50 AM
Do I not dress like a cis woman?  Yet another thing I was unaware of.

I have only seen one pic you that was a whole body shot and you looked like you dressed just fine.

I remember once for a few months ago when I walked past a rock-clothing store that had sale. Walked in, and bought a few clothes to myself. After I was done trying out in the dressing room and put the clothes on the counter to pay, the cashier was a girl and asked me if I was in need for some underwears and showed me that they had some deals on panties, which took me a few seconds to realize that I passed. Still I gave her the signal that I bought female clothes, but it still surprised me off guard.

And also another story when I was in a store to buy some running shoes. I asked for some help from staff and I just said that I need size 5-6 (37-38 in EU). She showed me immediately shoes from the wall where the female shoes were. She also mentioned which running shoes that were popular among females...

But most of the time I cannot tell if I pass or not. I mix alot my clothing kind of boyish, like street-style. Which in turn can make it harder for me to pass...

Oooo, hang on a sec, there was another one of those 'how to tell if you are passing' tests that the lovely Annie and I agreed on this morning.  Way back when I was pretending to be male. any time I bought flowers I was asked if I would like the price removed.  Since stopping all that pretence I have never been asked.  You could try that?

Rosie

Or look at their reaction when they look at you is there a scowl or frown when they see you? If so, then most likely you've been clocked or they are left confused. Otherwise, they could just be looking at your top, hair, shoes etch I almost see a blank stare when I see people looking at me or a smile.

Quote from: RosieD on February 14, 2015, 03:59:43 PM
Oooo, hang on a sec, there was another one of those 'how to tell if you are passing' tests that the lovely Annie and I agreed on this morning.  Way back when I was pretending to be male. any time I bought flowers I was asked if I would like the price removed.  Since stopping all that pretence I have never been asked.  You could try that?

Rosie

Oh, they do look at me that way! It's just a question of WHY-it is it the crazy hair, or am I actually being constantly, consistently clocked.  The number of people in my life who have told me they had NO idea until I told them does not match up the the number of stares I get in public.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on February 14, 2015, 06:24:47 PM
Oh, they do look at me that way! It's just a question of WHY-it is it the crazy hair, or am I actually being constantly, consistently clocked.  The number of people in my life who have told me they had NO idea until I told them does not match up the the number of stares I get in public.

There is nothing likely experimenting in public with different looks and see if that changes anything.  There should be someway to temporarily tone down the hair.  Or you could try the other direction and amp up your current look.  Either would be interesting to see if that changes how people act around you.

Andro, your hairline looks great from your avatar and the photo I saw a few months ago. I would like to see you in just plain brunette hair pulled back in a pony. I know it sounds plain jane but I think your pretty face would stand out more than your hair xo

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on February 14, 2015, 06:24:47 PM
Oh, they do look at me that way! It's just a question of WHY-it is it the crazy hair, or am I actually being constantly, consistently clocked.  The number of people in my life who have told me they had NO idea until I told them does not match up the the number of stares I get in public.

I think the hair will cause stares in an of itself . I stare all the time at males and females with colorful hair , it's really not a big deal it's just the hair. I don't have that which makes one able to do it in my personality, but I could really see getting quite psychedelic if I could manage it. I mean really psychedelic.

This is an interesting topic,
Just last week I tried something new. Since my laser therapy has removed all of my black hair from my upper and lower lip and chin, I only now have barely noticeable white hairs, which once shaved are not noticeable.
So last week, I wore a mans shirt (but bra underneath) my breasts are now 44B+, I had my women's skinny jeans on  and gym shoes (pink) and my blonde wig. I just then had a little eyeliner, no lipstick, and a little mascara, plus a little blush. I then went to the Supermarket (Coles) stood in line and paid for  $30 of items to get my petrol discount, I then went over to the gás station, bought some diesel for my new car. I used a red women's purse in both places to get my money out  , the checkout girls bothy called me "maam" and have you had a nice day.
One hour later, I repeated the same exercise at both places with the same checkout staff but this time, no wig, white gym shoes, my Women's Skinny jeans, the same shirt (still wearing my bra underneath),but now using my wallet, no mascara, no eyeliner and no blush, and both girls said  "Sir can we help you" how has you day been? Mind you I suppose checkout people are probably largely in a daze!

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on February 14, 2015, 06:24:47 PM
Oh, they do look at me that way! It's just a question of WHY-it is it the crazy hair, or am I actually being constantly, consistently clocked.  The number of people in my life who have told me they had NO idea until I told them does not match up the the number of stares I get in public.

The thing is, stares from people do not automatically mean they've read you. I get stunned looks every now and then, I can only presume it's because they're thinking "my gosh, what a gorgeous Amazon! Is she a model?"

Quote from: Ms Grace on February 15, 2015, 02:19:10 AM
"my gosh, what a gorgeous Amazon! Is she a model?"

Yes. That happens to me everyday.



barbie~~

Quote from: Ms Grace on February 15, 2015, 02:19:10 AM
The thing is, stares from people do not automatically mean they've read you. I get stunned looks every now and then, I can only presume it's because they're thinking "my gosh, what a gorgeous Amazon! Is she a model?"

[emoji1] Absolutely.  Or they could be disgusted with how well you pull of a look they wish they were brave enough to wear.  Or they could be annoyed with how tall and slender you are.  Trust me, cis girls can be petty of the weirdest things.
Most of the time I look at girls, I'm busy categorizing their outfit and how much effort they put into their appearance.  A lot of my cis girl friends are the same.  When they're caught examining a girl, they'll usually just smile and compliment the girl about the thing they were fixated on.  Like, "I love your shoes!"  This tends to lead into longer discussions about shopping.

     Hugs,
- Katie
Sent from Katie's iPad using Tapatalk