Quote from: Berliegh on November 05, 2007, 01:51:28 PM

Quote from: Nero on November 05, 2007, 01:44:48 PM
You have soft features and no hard angles or edges. You'll make an adorable girl. And I LOVE the nose. It's distinctive and beautiful. To change it would be a tragedy. Beauty is only as good as its uniqueness.

Thanks darling! I've been fairly lucky with the raw material....

Oh, I was talking about Cire. But you already make such a lovely girl. You could be my cousin Mindy's twin. you have the same look - perky, girlish, adorable. You could never need any additional help.

Quote from: Berliegh on November 05, 2007, 01:31:05 PM
If HRT worked we would probably have more people showing their faces......but as it it's mostly just Rachael, Keira and me who post our real photographs (and I don't think HRT made much difference to me)..

me too 

Quote from: Kat on November 06, 2007, 09:09:29 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on November 05, 2007, 01:31:05 PM
If HRT worked we would probably have more people showing their faces......but as it it's mostly just Rachael, Keira and me who post our real photographs (and I don't think HRT made much difference to me)..

me too 

and you too....

ok, established theres a few, so its clear it can, nomatter what people say, and winge about, AGE has a masive factor on its effectiveness, and speed. simply due to faster growth and less change when your younger.
but hey, it worked on me for sure, say all you like about angles lost in time, theres a massive difference to the tune of friends from a year ago dont recognise me....
R

Quote from: Rachael on November 06, 2007, 10:46:44 AM
AGE has a masive factor on its effectiveness, and speed.

Proof? Studies? Polls?

I don't believe it. It just doesn't seem to be verified according to what "older" TSs post... including myself.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on November 06, 2007, 10:55:24 AM

Quote from: Rachael on November 06, 2007, 10:46:44 AM
AGE has a masive factor on its effectiveness, and speed.

Proof? Studies? Polls?

I don't believe it. It just doesn't seem to be verified according to what "older" TSs post... including myself.

~Kate~

Age isn't an issue really, but if HRT worked efficiently why are there so many transsexuals around who look like blokes?

Quote from: Berliegh on November 06, 2007, 11:33:57 AM
Age isn't an issue really, but if HRT worked efficiently why are there so many transsexuals around who look like blokes?

For that matter, I could ask, "if HRT is so inefficient, why are there so many transsexuals who look like ordinary women?"

It's not an IT WORKS FOR EVERYONE or IT DOESNT WORK FOR ANYONE sorta thing. It works well for some people, and barely at all for others. Predicting who'll benefit from it though seems impossible. Some older TSs respond well. Some younger ones don't. You just never know what's going to happen.

I just don't want anyone who's wrestling with the thoughts of a transition to read those rather bleak opinions (doesn't work when old, doesn't work for anyone anyway, etc.) and lose hope. Some people respond, some don't. There's just no way to know until you try.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on November 06, 2007, 11:47:24 AM
For that matter, I could ask, "if HRT is so inefficient, why are there so many transsexuals who look like ordinary women?"

It's not an IT WORKS FOR EVERYONE or IT DOESNT WORK FOR ANYONE sorta thing. It works well for some people, and barely at all for others. Predicting who'll benefit from it though seems impossible. Some older TSs respond well. Some younger ones don't. You just never know what's going to happen.

I just don't want anyone who's wrestling with the thoughts of a transition to read those rather bleak opinions (doesn't work when old, doesn't work for anyone anyway, etc.) and lose hope. Some people respond, some don't. There's just no way to know until you try.

~Kate~

I fully understand and take on board about not giving out bleak opinions but at the same time we do need to be realistic about this.

I think we all need to be more realistic about the true limitations of transition and I know it might seem negative but we are all guilty of not putting our cards on the table and saying what does and doesn't work on us as individials. This is a much better forum than many others in a similar capacity and this is due to people being more honest about their own experiences of being both good and bad.

Quote from: Kate on November 06, 2007, 11:47:24 AM

Quote from: Berliegh on November 06, 2007, 11:33:57 AM
Age isn't an issue really, but if HRT worked efficiently why are there so many transsexuals around who look like blokes?

For that matter, I could ask, "if HRT is so inefficient, why are there so many transsexuals who look like ordinary women?"

It's not an IT WORKS FOR EVERYONE or IT DOESNT WORK FOR ANYONE sorta thing. It works well for some people, and barely at all for others. Predicting who'll benefit from it though seems impossible. Some older TSs respond well. Some younger ones don't. You just never know what's going to happen.

I just don't want anyone who's wrestling with the thoughts of a transition to read those rather bleak opinions (doesn't work when old, doesn't work for anyone anyway, etc.) and lose hope. Some people respond, some don't. There's just no way to know until you try.

~Kate~

I promised I wasn't going to post for a while...

I think it's more what you've got to work with beforehand than age. I've seen some really gorgeous, completely passable mature ladies and some really unpassable 20 somethings. A lot of it's bone structure.  Bones, facial shape, body, and age all factor into it.

Kate: hormone therapy has a more significant effect on younger patients... according to the new british SOC. the following are listed:
greater likelihood of tanner V breast growth.
if under 24, increased likelihood of minor bone structure change.
Facial hair and vocal change reversal (ive had this)

earlier cessation of androgens is likely to reduce the 'damage' to the body
higher levels of human growth hormone present in the under 24s also is a factor.

I am not saying hrt is non functional in older transitioners, it isnt...
nor am i saying that all 20 somethings are 100% passable babes, while the 40+ lot are men in dresses, this isnt the case.
But as someone who was pre hrt, completely unpassable, to someone who is fairly happy with her appearance now. i have yet to see the level of change in an older transitioner, compared with a young transitioner.
R

Quote from: Rachael on November 06, 2007, 08:47:56 PM
Kate: hormone therapy has a more significant effect on younger patients... according to the new british SOC. the following are listed:
greater likelihood of tanner V breast growth.
if under 24, increased likelihood of minor bone structure change.
Facial hair and vocal change reversal (ive had this)

earlier cessation of androgens is likely to reduce the 'damage' to the body
higher levels of human growth hormone present in the under 24s also is a factor.

I am not saying hrt is non functional in older transitioners, it isnt...
nor am i saying that all 20 somethings are 100% passable babes, while the 40+ lot are men in dresses, this isnt the case.
But as someone who was pre hrt, completely unpassable, to someone who is fairly happy with her appearance now. i have yet to see the level of change in an older transitioner, compared with a young transitioner.
R

There's an awful lot of truth in that.....

A lot of people don't post pictures because this is the internet.
This is a transexual message board on the internet.
And a lot of people with post-HRT successes are trying to not to be unmasked.

I don't think I'll ever post a facial shot here. Or anywhere connecting the two lives.

and some people dont have two halves... or pretend to have experience of things.
i think the only people you can TRUST are the ones who are BRAVE enough to show thier face...
R

And we know everyone who has a photograph posted is showing themselves?  *looks at Nero's avatar* hm, think not.

Basically everything in this thread is hearsay, unless you show some scientific evidence beyond "It's happened to me".

I've seen gorgeous passing older TS's and some younger ones, (teenagers) that can't 'pull it off' as it were.

Passing isn't even completely visual, so you can be the prettiest person on the block and still act like a bull in a china shop.  It isn't fair to take someones hesitance to post a facial shot as 'they don't pass well', there are dozens of reasons to NOT show post RL pictures over the internet.  Especially if you plan on going stealth later.  Just because some people have more responsibility regarding their identity doesn't mean they don't pass.

Alison: note their picture, not A picture....
To be honest, passing CAN be all visual. if you look nothing but female, nobody is going to take you for male if you act yobish, or in a masculine way. they will see a female acting masculine.... Plus being mistaken for a man, and not passing, are two different things ENTIRELY. Behaviour has a minimal influence on peoples opinions of gender.
If you would care to look at the UK SOC (link removed - dosage information) you will see the evidence i referenced above with regards to HRT effects. (zomg someone actually backed up a statement in this topic!)
Obviously if you know better than the Leading specialists in GID treatment in the UK, feel free to let me know....
as far as scientific evidence goes, theres some, and as i braved showing my face. there is an example. I honestly ask you to tell me that those two faces look like the same person. Because you would be doing something that people ive known IRL cant manage...
R

QuoteAlison: note their picture, not A picture....

You realize I could post -any- picture I find, and tell you it's me right?  You would have no idea if I was being truthful.

QuoteTo be honest, passing CAN be all visual. if you look nothing but female, nobody is going to take you for male if you act yobish, or in a masculine way. they will see a female acting masculine.... Plus being mistaken for a man, and not passing, are two different things ENTIRELY. Behaviour has a minimal influence on peoples opinions of gender.

Since when?  You might be purely concerned about looks, but I take personality into account.

QuoteIf you would care to look at the UK SOC (LINK)
you will see the evidence i referenced above with regards to HRT effects. (zomg someone actually backed up a statement in this topic!)

I edited out your link, there was dosage information within, you know better then that Rachael.

Nonetheless, I read through the section on HRT and didn't find the statements you were referring to, if you could specify a page number or section number?

And about 'two faces looking like the same person' ....  Which two faces are you talking about?

i meant the one on the previous page i posted of myself.
About the document: ill find the reference later and add it, and as for the dosage info, woops! i've not slept in 29 hours, and im getting sloppy. i apologize.
passing: personality yes, true, my fixations are entirely physical because i have no issues with my behavior or personality. that is all natural to me. But it still stands, a woman can sit like a guy, behave like a guy, and 'slob' it. heck, wear jeans and a tee, and i guarantee nobody will think she IS a man... (obviously we are suggesting she has female hair, and features here) so physical appearance can lead to said lady passing as female with no issues. again, an individual who looks like a trucker (male)with stubble, and short hair, no matter how femininely they act, or sound, or display female mannerisms, i guarantee they are taken as male. passing is mostly audio visual, you may take personality into account, but youd just go 'hmm shes blokey', about the masculine woman... personality isnt going to do much if the individual looks, dresses male, you aint gonna think thier a woman...

on the photos: how likely are you to have several photos of the same random person to pretend to be? last person who tried to do that slipped up by posting one of the person and their real self (it was their ex gf!)
R

Quote from: Autumn on November 08, 2007, 03:34:22 AM
A lot of people don't post pictures because this is the internet.
This is a transexual message board on the internet.
And a lot of people with post-HRT successes are trying to not to be unmasked.

I don't think I'll ever post a facial shot here. Or anywhere connecting the two lives.

.....what is this two lives?

Quote from: Rachael on November 08, 2007, 05:21:30 AM
and some people dont have two halves... or pretend to have experience of things.
i think the only people you can TRUST are the ones who are BRAVE enough to show thier face...
R

That's right Rachael, (and this part of the forum catagory is TS).... If you are TS you are one person and live as a woman all the time, not someone who is living two lives and scared to get found out by whoever....

i wont deny both are me, i was just having a bad hair day on the first! (for bad read aweful)
R

Quote from: Cire on November 05, 2007, 12:21:09 PM
I'll be taking better pictures when I do lose some weight, and I'll see where I'm at.

I'm busy growing out my hair at the moment, but I do need new glasses (these pair are over 3 years old). Anyone have a recommendation about what kind of shape frame I should go for in order to have a more feminine look to me?

Most frames these days are fairly androgenous as it is.  Best thing to do is ask the person to help you find one that fits your face best.

Posted on: November 08, 2007, 04:08:17 PM

---

Jumping way late in to the turn this thread has taken...

There are just to many variables to conclusively draw a line in the sand as to who and who won't get maximal benefit from HRT.  Yes age is a factor, but so is genetics, lifestyle, general health status, etc.  Generalizations can be made and its probably safe to argue that yes the younger someone starts HRT, etc the better off they are, but HRT is not the make or break of a successful transition.

While younger transitioners can stake their claim on improved results from HRT vs the older crowd, never forget that while you waited until after 18 to transition and have nearly 20 years of male upbringing to unlearn, there are more and more MtFs going full time in grade school or earlier.  Who has the better hand now?