So I will post some more pics, with what i guess is natural looks, later on today. Thanks for all the advice, i know the pink and blue was overdone, but I just like these colors.

Quote from: ImagineKate on March 23, 2015, 11:03:38 AM
And yeah, I get the part about bad hair, no makeup, walking the dog kind of clothes... to an extent. But to me "passing" is a spectrum. "Completely passing" is another but I think that is an impossibility.

I agree with this. If you make someone deliberately look for even the smallest cues for cis/trans, male/female, then I am sure many cis women would fail to 'pass' as well. e.g. have 1 trans woman stand in a queue with 10 cis women or 1 cis woman in a queue of 10 trans women, and ask which one is trans or cis, and I am sure many will goof up. It's just that most people do not even think about all these things on a day-to-day basis.
Our problem is that we are predisposed to look for these small cues, more in ourselves than in anyone else, and then keep beating ourselves over it.
After being here and on other sites with trans related info, I now know how chins, hairlines, eyes, eyebrows, cheeks etc are different for men and women and I might now look for these differences more deliberately. Earlier, I may have been subtly aware of it but not so much, and I come across many cis women every day who have some of these masculine features that we talk about here and yet they don't get mis-gendered simply because of their presentation and attitude.

Quote from: codyfletcher on March 23, 2015, 11:10:47 AM
Oooooooh I like that answer I'm perfectly content with being a male, however I'm not a fan of the male "stereotype" if you will, like I like to wear cute things so people see me as a female lol I love fashion and colorful things and things that generally symbolize happiness. If I'm wearing something generally male such as dark shirts and pants or whatever I just feel down and my eyes turn dark and ugly. If I wear something colorful my eyes are a very bright green and I feel amazing

Thank goodness for people who challenge the sterotypes!   

Quote from: Missconsufed on March 23, 2015, 08:28:27 AM

It's not like we can predict the future... You don't look very feminine, to me it's just a boy-body wearing shorts, sorry for the misgendering, I meant the body not yourself. However it's not really the short, but you really don't have much of a waist, which can be a very feminine thing, and hrt can help that as well as waist training. You shoulders don't look too broad, but yeah the lower part doesn't read much female to me at this point, but this is your start, it's not like you should expect more than that, and about the future, I don't know, it's genetics, look if you mom or sister have a hourglass figure, and make your suppositions from that.

However you're probably going to be fine due to your young age too, 24 is a duable age.

Quote from: femmebutt on March 23, 2015, 10:53:16 AM
If you don't get hit on you fail the inspection, obviously.

That's so stupid you don't need to be pretty in order to pass, so you really don't need to get hit on, and beauty is objective, we are talking about passing here. I know you were being sarcastic but I see this as a common way of thinking it too, and it's wrong to my opinion.

Besides that the videos are a good idea, if you want one, but there is a voice thread separate from here, and I do post my transition monthly vlogs about hrt here too sometimes to get feedback on stuff, but some people don't need feedback on their voice or mannerism so they don't want to post a video.

Quote from: Serena ♡ on March 23, 2015, 02:17:27 PM
...stupid ... beauty is objective... sarcastic ... I see this as a common way of thinking it too, and it's wrong to my opinion.

Zackly. Thanks for reaffirming my point.

Hey! Thanks for the replies. I'll look for professionals to help me go through this and god help me! I deleted the original post because i dont need everyone seeing who I "was". Hopefully i'll be back here soon with decent results!!! I'm actually excited. Im gonna save those pics tho for a comparison between ground 0 then 4-5 years later

*slams hand on table* judge me!

Quote from: 23 Skidoo on March 23, 2015, 09:16:24 PM
*slams hand on table* judge me!

The Raisin's give it a thumbs up!     But you have nice hair and a smile and a great glow.

Guilty of being a girl...u look great

As a cat, you pass perfectly.  I would never think you were presumed dog at birth. [emoji1]

Andro, I'll be very candid with you because in many ways we have the same struggles. You are like me when I say that you constantly in need of validation of who you are - your womanhood and I will tell you that we will grow old very disappointed about the world. So I decided to take the route of affirming myself more than relying on cues from strangers.

I honestly think you have start respecting yourself and loving it more. Passing I know is a delicate balance of appearance, posture and voice. However,  I rarely get the second looks now and I have been noticing that lately coz you know why - I don't pay attention to it anymore. CIS woman pass because to them it's all natural. Some do walk and talk like a trucker and yet they pass. Yes appearance counts but you already have that so own it.

Passing to me is like "acting" so I hate that term sorry. I am a woman and I own it.

Womanhood is not a test, it is a way of living. There's no pass or fail - it just is.


P.S. Since taking on this attitude, I was asked by a barrista on a date. Unfortunately, I am not into women.

Love and Respect,
April

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on March 22, 2015, 06:12:05 PM
I don't want to though!  I'm just tired of being so ostracized, getting weird looks...and I'm scared that nobody is ever going to love me.  I'm a girl...I just wish I was treated differently.

Quote from: carmenkate on March 24, 2015, 09:28:12 PM
Andro, I'll be very candid with you because in many ways we have the same struggles. You are like me when I say that you constantly in need of validation of who you are - your womanhood and I will tell you that we will grow old very disappointed about the world. So I decided to take the route of affirming myself more than relying on cues from strangers.

I honestly think you have start respecting yourself and loving it more. Passing I know is a delicate balance of appearance, posture and voice. However,  I rarely get the second looks now and I have been noticing that lately coz you know why - I don't pay attention to it anymore. CIS woman pass because to them it's all natural. Some do walk and talk like a trucker and yet they pass. Yes appearance counts but you already have that so own it.

Passing to me is like "acting" so I hate that term sorry. I am a woman and I own it.

Womanhood is not a test, it is a way of living. There's no pass or fail - it just is.


P.S. Since taking on this attitude, I was asked by a barrista on a date. Unfortunately, I am not into women.

Love and Respect,
April

Nobody has ever asked me out.  Ever.  Like, ever.  And THAT'S how I know I don't pass.

Also, attitude doesn't have much of anything to do with it.  It's about how you look.  It's not like my femininity is an act or anything.  I jsut act naturaly.  The only thing I need to try and improve consciously is my posture.  People stare.  And that's too much for me right now.  I desperately want to be wanted by someone, anyone.

Andro just because you haven't been asked out doesn't mean you don't pass. Lots of woman, CIS woman at that, haven't been asked out either. As far being looked at as woman get looked at a lot. They could be looking at what were wearing or our makeup or hair, but again that doesn't mean we don't pass. We are always judged by everyone around us that isn't limited to just us trans woman but the CIS woman too. It comes with the territory unfortunately. I have no doubt in the right place and time you will get asked out, but the best thing you can do is be yourself and be proud of the person you are and as a result hold your head high. I have a feeling the posture will come along with it because the happier you are the more likely the posture will be improved as well without having to try and do anything. I will say this again because I feel it bares repeating and that is you pass a lot more than you think and fairly attractive at that. I hope someday you can see that in yourself. Good Luck and hugs
Mariah

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on March 24, 2015, 09:32:14 PM
Nobody has ever asked me out.  Ever.  Like, ever.  And THAT'S how I know I don't pass.

Also, attitude doesn't have much of anything to do with it.  It's about how you look.  It's not like my femininity is an act or anything.  I jsut act naturaly.  The only thing I need to try and improve consciously is my posture.  People stare.  And that's too much for me right now.  I desperately want to be wanted by someone, anyone.

Hahaha.  I've never dated someone I didn't hate, who didn't care for me, or who I wasn't ashamed of.  I guess I'm just ugly then?

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on March 24, 2015, 09:32:14 PM
Nobody has ever asked me out.  Ever.  Like, ever.  And THAT'S how I know I don't pass.

Also, attitude doesn't have much of anything to do with it.  It's about how you look.  It's not like my femininity is an act or anything.  I jsut act naturaly.  The only thing I need to try and improve consciously is my posture.  People stare.  And that's too much for me right now.  I desperately want to be wanted by someone, anyone.

Hmm I dunno girl. I will tell ya when I was dating women as a guy i passed over some pretty ones because their attitude sucked badly. Meanwhile I had the most fun with some really much less than attractive girls. One of them I'm still friends with to this day. A girl I really liked liked just ordinary but she liked fast cars and tech which I like.

But if you're looking for a supermodel forget it. I wouldn't date one anyway.

I'm pretty sure I pass now because of feedback I get now. Apart from calling me ma'am or miss I get treated like a woman by men and women alike. But as I've said I'm not really extraordinary looking. I'm more or less ordinary, trust me that is my biggest asset. I don't stand out, don't get scrutinized and therefore don't raise suspicion.

In your case you have the colored hair and the hairstyle and a few other things **that are easy to fix** that will help you pass. I know you like the queer look and all but that is not what passes. That's what looks queer (which is fine if you can accept that queer doesn't blend in).

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on March 24, 2015, 09:57:42 PM
Hahaha.  I've never dated someone I didn't hate, who didn't care for me, or who I wasn't ashamed of.  I guess I'm just ugly then?

Well it's you saying that so it must be true?

I give up hon...

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on March 24, 2015, 09:32:14 PM
Nobody has ever asked me out.  Ever.  Like, ever.  And THAT'S how I know I don't pass.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on March 24, 2015, 09:57:42 PM
Hahaha.  I've never dated someone I didn't hate, who didn't care for me, or who I wasn't ashamed of.  I guess I'm just ugly then?

As others have said already, this happens with cis women too - not getting asked out or ending up with jerks, and that may make them question their attractiveness or their femininity. Yes, even their femininity - I have personally seen situations where both guys and girls can be so insensitive to a cis woman who is unattractive to them that they even question her femininity. I have also seen situations where appearance may lead to not just not getting asked out or getting stared at, but being ignored or passed over for jobs as well. A cis woman could be really really smart, like one in a million smart, and yet have trouble finding a job if she doesn't fit someone else's perception of beauty. It does not mean that those making such judgments genuinely doubt whether she is trans, it simply means that they are jerks and are projecting their own shallowness and insecurities onto others.
If that's what others do to you, just ignore them and move on. Easier said than done, but it's the only way out.

Btw, appearance doesn't seem to be the problem in your case. The queer-looking hairstyle / hair color or maybe some other features might raise a few eyebrows, but it's your own self-hating attitude (which we've seen quite a bit of already) that may give out cues which other people pick on.

Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on March 24, 2015, 09:57:42 PM
Hahaha.  I've never dated someone I didn't hate, who didn't care for me, or who I wasn't ashamed of.  I guess I'm just ugly then?

I'm sorry but right now Im just getting annoyed. You're getting all the support you possibly can get here. There is no "thank you"  or something. All you talk about is looks. Of course ones personality and attitude counts. If you walk out the door insecure and also masculine obviously it matters.

And since you at all times get back to how ugly or masculine you are; people have told you what they think you could change to "pass" more - there nothing more to discuss. Everyone has said the same thing. Take the advice and do something about it and stop whine and being 12 years old and be miserable because of how you look. We all look different. There tall women, short women. There's skinny and fat women. There is good looking women and ugly women but it is all in the eyes of the beholder.

I just feel no matter what advice we give or how much we tell you that you are good looking. Right now you are decided that you think ur ugly and not passing. So no matter what we say - it won't change you're opinion. You have to work on it urself.

I'm sorry.  You're right.  I'm just wasting all of your time.  Thanks for putting up with me.  Thanks for the advice.  I'm so sorry for lurking like this and dragging everyone down with me