Quote from: iKate on June 19, 2015, 01:24:32 PM
Um, yes it is something you can hide.

So essentially you are invalidating older trans women who have had to hide their femininity as a form of survival? That is such utter nonsense and it is clear that you are taking today's acceptance of trans and gender non conforming people totally for granted.

You are lucky, you are young, and today society is accepting. But back in the days of Lynn Conway there was really no choice. Even in the 80s when I grew up, if you even REMOTELY act feminine you were beaten back into the closet. Do you know how many times my father told me, "hey that's for WOMEN boy!!!" when referring to my clothes, or the way I acted? I cried so much trying to just be myself. I eventually just gave the hell up. You telling me this is unusual and the only valid trans people are those who couldn't hide it?

Clearly, you have a lot to learn.

Not only that, but look at the number of people coming out today at younger ages versus older. This alone shoots a huge hole in your theory and all the other nonsense. This is a direct result of society becoming more accepting, so people like me and people like a lot more of us don't have to hide anymore.

You grew up in America, right? Go to the Caribbean and tell me how you can't hide anything. Trust me. You will find a way to hide.

No, i did not grow up in America. And also you are wrong. Average age of transition hasn't decreased, if anything it has increased. Young kids today who transition are more visible, but there aren't more. And in western cultures there are more older transitioners than ever. And guess what? In the 80s there were girls who transitioned at 16,17, 18, even in the those dark ages. I'm not invalidating you but you clearly want to believe you were a gender non conforming kid when you were not.  You are saying you and I would be the same only you had transitioned earlier but you are wrong.

AND NO. Society isn't accepting at all lmaooo. Do i have to say again? I was beaten, called a ->-bleeped-<-got, spit on, sexually harassed, the kids poked my genitals, my parents croticized my mannerisms and kids wouldnt play with me. I was left in the corner. Excluded fron every group project. Yeah that seems very lucky.

Average age of those who transition has increased, compared to 90s/80s/70s ... back then most people transitioned during their 20s, or late teens... Now, people still transition in their late teens and 20s, but MANY people transition in their 30s, 40s, 50s and later.

What society is I'm not shure... but it definitely isn't accepting. I never dressed masculine and I never pretended to be man.. I dressed and looked androgynous pre-transition and I got anthing other than acceptance from anyone.

Hi friends 

Either knock off the arguing and get back on topic or go find something more constructive to do with your time

Thank you

V M

Quote from: Deinewelt on June 17, 2015, 10:52:10 PM
Well for one thing, the X chromosome is essentially the common base genetic material that all humans, male and female, share.  This is why I always disagree with the whole argument that AMAB can not transition to female because, AFAIK, most, if not all, secondary sex characteristics are determined by hormones.  Because this is true, the Y chromosome mostly effects the body through hormone production that essentially trigger other Y chromosome genes in the body.  By modifying the hormones, you are shutting down those triggers and the resulting human form is, in my opinion, completely female.

Yep, contrary to popular belief, the sex you develop as isn't determined by whether you have a Y chromosome or not, but by what hormones are present during the time your prenatal development is taking place. As far as I've been able to find out, the Y chromosome doesn't do anything apart from direct your undifferentiated gonadal tissue to turn into testicular tissue. It contains far fewer genes than any other chromosome, and most of them appear to code for proteins associated with spermatogenesis. Since XY women are, on average, slightly taller than XX women and XX men are, on average, slightly shorter than XY men, it's thought there might be a gene on the Y chromosome that increases growth, but apart from that, it doesn't appear to do anything at all, except in gonadal tissue. All the non-gonadal cells in your body take their cue as to whether they're part of a male body or a female one from what hormones are present (which is why trans HRT works so successfully!).

There are a couple of differences to the way hormones work in adults and in an unborn baby though. In adults, androgens (primarily testosterone and DHT) drive male gene expression, and make cells behave as if they're male,  whereas estrogens and progesterone drive female gene expression (which is why, in MTF HRT, antiandrogens on their own don't cause much in the way of feminization). In an unborn baby, androgens drive male development, whereas in the absence of androgens, female development occurs instead (in conditions where the fetus has neither testicles nor ovaries, such as Swyers syndrome or Turners syndrome, development occurs as female).

The second difference is that, in adults, hormones are largely concerned with directing various aspects of the day to day running of your body, so their effects are largely temporary. In an unborn baby, they determine whether you develop as male or female, so their effects are permanent, and stay with you for the rest of your life. Any disruption to your hormones during the time your prenatal development is taking place runs the risk of causing you to partly develop as the opposite sex to your biological one. This is why I think it's a really bad idea to be giving pregnant women medical treatment involving hormones. As the DES experience shows, one outcome is that you can end up transgender.

thanks for the info