I'm a post op M2F.  One distinct memory I have is my ex protesting to me, regarding continuing our relationship: "No, I'm not a lesbian."  It occurs to me that the following NEGATIVE RESPONSES are possible when transsexuals ask others for a date:

M2F asking for a date from a GG             "No, I'm not a lesbian!"
F2M asking for a date from a GG             "No, I'm not a lesbian!"


M2F asking for a date from a GM             "No, I'm not gay!"
F2M asking for a date from a GM             "No, I'm not gay!"

In truth, when I date I often feel insecure about the sexual preference of who I'm dating.  It shouldn't matter, but sometimes it's hard to shake.  It's a bit like Woody Allen's line, "I wouldn't want to be part of a group that would have me as a member."  Is the man I'm dating really a gay man -- is that why he's dating me?  Because he sees me as a guy?  Or is the girl I'm dating really dating me because she sees me as a guy?

It gets confusing.

Teri Anne

Yeah, I know what you mean Teri. I'm nervous about dating because I don't have the bottom bits, so not sure about straight women - would they see me as male? Don't want to date a lesbian whose identity would be in crisis. I'm hoping to run across a nice, sane, bisexual woman who isn't going to care about what my gender does to her identity.

Dennis

That's the spirit. We exist out here somewhere, though I'm thinking 'sane' is a relative term ^*giggles*

But more to the topic of the thread that is an interesting point that I hadn't really considered. But then I have no plans to do anything regarding relationships for roughly 6 years as I want to be sure I'm totally me without any baggage and I want to be totally comfortable with who I am before I start trying to find someone who likes me.

All valid points and as I found out the other day whilst in the hospital, there are some people that will be attracted to you because of being gendered in one way or another. The story: A nice good looking first year nurse came rushing up to me while my wife was having blood taken, she didnt know I was married and she began to be flirtatious and seemed very excited by the fact that I was the only one there who was a pre-op (she for some reason could tell) I was polite and said hello and she could not take her eyes off me (very uncomfortable). So I began to think, why all of a sudden do strange people come up to me because I am the way I am and think the world will change (I am not gay nor lesbian) bi, but I thought how does she see me and how does she she herself. There we have it back to the self doubt, it is all very confusing.  Now,this girl may have also been trying to be friendly but then why all the staring. I have met many girls who accept me for who I am and they have not ever carried on  like that.

I can see the problem with dating, good thing I already have someone.


Sara.

Dennis.

Don't start throwing rocks, let me explain.

I would never consider dating you.  Two very simple reasons too.  If I did that would be invalidating your gender.   #1 --You are a man, I see you as a man, #2-- I don't date men.

I respect your rights as a man (gender) no matter what the sex (anatomy) is.

This is not a reflection on you but a reflection on me.  I have quite a few men acquaintences, even ones that are very good looking, even pretty dam hot.  I'm a lesbian not dead.  Coffee absolutely, a beer oh yea.  A romantic type date, my tennis shoes are smoking I'm headed out the door so fast.

Leigh

Kind of as I mentioned elsewhere. The world is comprised of all kinds; some of us like the weirdest things and around it goes. Part of that around is what people don't like, or aren't comfortable with. There are so many different reasons for it all. As I see it, it is not worth worrying about when someone doesn't like you for some reason or other... Each to their own and all that. So, if they see me as something they don't like, well, it's a shame but it's their prerogative too.

After SRS, I dated both men and women but, perhaps unusually, have chosen not to have sex (er, penatration).  I'm sure that several of the men would have been interested.  I've given oral sex to a few but, given STD and aids risks, never felt the need warranted the risk.  I know many TS's want to 'try it out" but I just haven't been that motivated.  Part of the problem was that I was not orgasmic for about a year after SRS and so figured, what's the use?  A few tried to stimulate me but I quickly bored of that figuring nothing was going to happen.

I dated both men and women because I felt I owed it to myself to try to see what I like.  I was never much into dating when I was growing up but, after SRS, in the body of a woman, I felt more comfortable and confident.  At first, I stressed with both men and women that I wanted to be friends, and see what developed.  I figured that would take the tension out of first meets.  I found that people are very much into coupling and not so much into making new friends.  Women took my word that I just wanted to be friends but men just thought I was just talking and they made advances anyway.

In dating both men and women, I tried NOT telling them I was TS at first.  The minute I told them of my past, I noticed things changed...women would begin pointing out to me things they felt were male or female -- gee, just what I wanted to hear.  When I was a stranger, they presumed I was female.  It made me not want to tell them.  But eventually, of course, I did.

One thing I noticed in dating men (aside from them being more aggressive) was that their shaved faces hurt my face when we kissed.  Alll those little hairs were like needles pearcing my now hairess face (due to electro) and making it red.  I wondered why heterosexual women liked kissing men when, for me, it was a somewhat painful experience.  My ex said, "You didn't grow up kissing men so you never learned to like it."  It made no sense to me.  I've, on rare occassions, read about some heterosexual women who like hairless men (like swimmers).  If I was a heterosexual woman, I think I'd prefer that, too.  The Don Johnson stubbly beard --- UGGHH!  What pain!

I eventually stopped dating men because I found that (1) I wasn't that attracted to them and (2) it seemed like I could get killed if I dated the wrong man.  Also, a man I dated complained of my love of hugging and being close -- He said, "I'm not a teddy bear!'  One thing I've enjoyed a lot is hugging and being close -- women I've dated seem more atuned to that.

I haven't dated in about a year - I stopped dating when dating services started charging monthly fees.  I do miss having someone close.  My best friend is good for hugs but a special lifelong companion would, of course, be the ideal.

We'll see.  Maybe tomorrow.

Teri Anne

> "You didn't grow up kissing men so you never learned to like it."

^*shrug*
Simple fact of the matter, stubble hurts. My Dad has always had a beard and when I was younger I used to kiss him on the cheek... I didn't do that for long because every time I did it hurt

Conclusion, beards are prickly!

Quote from: Leigh on January 24, 2006, 09:19:38 PM
Dennis.

Don't start throwing rocks, let me explain.

I would never consider dating you.  Two very simple reasons too.  If I did that would be invalidating your gender.   #1 --You are a man, I see you as a man, #2-- I don't date men.

I respect your rights as a man (gender) no matter what the sex (anatomy) is.

This is not a reflection on you but a reflection on me.  I have quite a few men acquaintences, even ones that are very good looking, even pretty dam hot.  I'm a lesbian not dead.  Coffee absolutely, a beer oh yea.  A romantic type date, my tennis shoes are smoking I'm headed out the door so fast.

Leigh

I very much appreciate that, Leigh. That is another reason I wouldn't want to date a lesbian. I would be concerned that she wasn't seeing me as a man if I did.

But ya coulda said I was hot dammit

Dennis

Oh yes Teri Anne I am on your channel. Those hairs are disgustingly sharp, even the hairs on guys legs feel enough for me to say, heres a razor go and shave them and then return to me.

Kissing was very uncomfortable for me (with a male) as my timing was a bit out and they (men) are so agressive and we seem to clash teeth evrytime they first make an advance (it was like they were pile driving my head through the canvas) Like you, I have decided to stop having sex (ho hum) My wife is disabled so I have not been intimate with her at all since the accident in 2000 (just incase some think I cheat on my wife, I dont) but have discussed it with her and she says that I should be happy so go do whatever but I am not like that. The boy thing was before we got married.

Health first, Heart second and sex third. Now whats on TV tonight???

Sara.

The very first TS I ever met was a FtM in about 1965 (before I knew there were more than just two of us in the world and before SRS was even a remote possibility). I was about 16 and he was 19. We talked about how being a FtM and a MtF in a relationship would be about the best that could happen in a pre-SRS world 

Funny thing about men and facial hair - both my husbands wore beards! No whisker burn but it can be ticklish!

Quote from: Northern Jane on January 25, 2006, 07:42:10 AM...
We talked about how being a FtM and a MtF in a relationship would be about the best that could happen in a pre-SRS world 
...

Or post op really.

My blank slate no experience take says a FTM&MTF couple should be a pretty good match. Of course it depends massively on the people, preferences and so on but details

You are right Kimberly, who better to understand than a "mirror image".

After much heartache I decided to go back to not dating.  I tend to attract straight guys and lesbian women and both have issues with being attracted to me and of course sex is never a possibility, even if they are willing because I am not.

Since SRS is a pipe dream that I cannot afford, my last sexual encounter about ten years ago is just that, my last.

I do have a couple of people I can cuddle with but the problem with that is it reminds me of how empty my life is so I eventually have to stop doing that.

LostinTime
Your post is so sad   I read your posts & I can tell you are a kind & decent person.  Your life should not be empty, people need people. 
And, people need you as much as you need them - please don't give up & withdraw

Hang in there   what is that saying -  Nil Carberundum (if I spelt it right)

rana

Thank you for the kind words. 

Oh I do have friends, a few at least.  Hanging out with them and one in particular tends to eat up all of the white space in my life.  The only thing is that I do not have that special someone and I have found out that since I am not willing to be sexually intimate with someone then they are not interested.

Also I do not have that big drive to be social.  It took my therapist giving me grief to even start going out into the world a bit more.  She suggested a book club, I ended up in the leather crowd. 

Quote from: LostInTime on January 27, 2006, 09:49:14 AM


  She suggested a book club, I ended up in the leather crowd.

Book club-leather crowd....The market Place series.  Makes sense to me.  A member of my family was a contributer to #7.

I think I am one of the few in the local crowd that has not read the series.  Of course it is almost always checked out from the educational group.  It took me a year before I could borrow `Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns'.

Very cool about the family member.   

Of course it has been interesting being in the leather community.  Many of the people seem to be in it just for the kinky sex.  I do not do the sex thing but am fortunate enough to know enough people where it does not have to be just about sex so that leaves me a variety of people to Top and/or submit to right now (yes, yes.....damn Switches <G>).  trying to date within the community has the same issues as I stated before plus it can be a bit more complicated, especially since I am a Switch and rather new.

I think it depends on where you are.  One town that I have gone to play parties at, sex seems to very common whereas here its not as prevelant.  I don't know about the pan or mens parties, they are just to strange for me.

The Leather community, especially the pan groups, are probably the most accepting of any group.  We are the true minority of a minority.   Seems no one wants to play with us  >

Leigh, you mentioned, "Seems like no one wants to play with us."

To that, I'd add, the wrong people want to play with us.  I think many TS's just want to feel normal, average.  Before transition, we know we're anything but.  The discovery, for some of us, is that being "normal" is difficult to achieve after transition.  I once dated a guy who didn't know my past.  He had been married and divorced.  He owned his own company and had a wonderful way of talking in a mellow, intelligent, calming manner.  In many ways, he seemingly was a "catch" in any hetero woman's book

I was in his bed one morning and noticed a dresser drawer was slightly open.  It was only a foot away from the bed and curiosity made me peek in.  Inside the drawer, were pictures of a TG without clothes on in various sexy poses.  "She" had sexy women's nightwear on but a penis was quite visible.  I was shocked.  I thought I was dating a heterosexual man.  In talking to him about it, I found that I was part of a line of TG's that he'd dated.

My worst fear had been realized -- I was dating a man who LIKED the fact that I used to be a man.  He found them more interesting than "regular" women.  While that might be so, it was a big crush to my ego.  I was post op and had thought I was past people "reading" me.   I'd heard of the term, "->-bleeped-<- lovers," and I presume had found one.  My ex, in one of her critical moments, theorized that this man sought people like me because "real" women didn't want him -- though he was a catch in many ways, he was also very overweight -- probably 260 pounds.

In many ways, he was very nice to me  I ate some very expensive meals at posh Pasadena restaurants.  We'd tour architecture (my hobby).  His downfall was the above and the fact that he, one time, refused to apologize for being an hour late for a meet at a restaurant.  I'd driven through heavy rush hour traffic only to wait alone in the restaurant.  I didn't like being a woman alone in a restaurant.  His response -- "I never apologize."

He sensed my anger and never called me again.  I miss his mellow voice but admit it was a disappointing sad point in my life.

Teri Anne