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how to grieve what I don't have (trigger warning/ genitals)

Started by phoenix633, July 31, 2015, 11:07:54 PM

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phoenix633

The deeper I get into my own acceptance of who I am the more and more depressed I am that I don't have well you know... and even if I would be able to get bottom surgery one day I know it will never work naturally like a cis guys and that's what I want so badly. I just can't get over this right now. The fact that I will never know what it feels like to use one. That I just wasn't born with the reproductive parts that match who I am. I worry I will never be able to relate to men and know how to act when sex talk comes up. I know I can change a lot about my body but I will never experience what a cis- male penis feels like and it just gets me incredibly depressed. Not to mention the youth that I feel I was robbed being confined and told constantly, you can't act like that or do that and all the years I wasn't seen for who I am. I want to mentally get over these things so I can move on and make the best out of the life I have left. But these feelings make it pretty much impossible for me to release sexual tension and I want to someday be comfortable enough with my body to be intimate with people and enjoy it. It just sucks because it seems so easy for most people and I've just got this huge mental block that stops me from even enjoying these things by myself. I know this is depressing and negative but I just can't move past this right now.
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Ms Grace

Grieving is OK and natural. But there also comes a point where you need to move through and past it too, how long that takes is up to you. It's like all people born with so called "birth defects" (genitals, limbs, vision, hearing, etc) that set us apart from the majority and the benefits/privilege they enjoy as a result, you either let it eat you up or you find a deeper strength to acknowledge your feelings and move on to live your life to the fullest.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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kaidenhendricks89

Quote from: phoenix633 on July 31, 2015, 11:07:54 PM
The deeper I get into my own acceptance of who I am the more and more depressed I am that I don't have well you know... and even if I would be able to get bottom surgery one day I know it will never work naturally like a cis guys and that's what I want so badly. I just can't get over this right now. The fact that I will never know what it feels like to use one. That I just wasn't born with the reproductive parts that match who I am. I worry I will never be able to relate to men and know how to act when sex talk comes up. I know I can change a lot about my body but I will never experience what a cis- male penis feels like and it just gets me incredibly depressed. Not to mention the youth that I feel I was robbed being confined and told constantly, you can't act like that or do that and all the years I wasn't seen for who I am. I want to mentally get over these things so I can move on and make the best out of the life I have left. But these feelings make it pretty much impossible for me to release sexual tension and I want to someday be comfortable enough with my body to be intimate with people and enjoy it. It just sucks because it seems so easy for most people and I've just got this huge mental block that stops me from even enjoying these things by myself. I know this is depressing and negative but I just can't move past this right now.
I can relate well to what you've said. I didn't notice my bottom dysphoria as much before my top surgery but now that I have had my top surgery my lack of a cis male penis is really starting to hit me hard ... I guess the distraction of having to deal with my chest all the time helped to mask my other feelings of dysphoria ... to help cope I have to allow myself to feel sad about being trans about my dysphoria, this isn't an easy card to have been dealt and I'm allowed to be upset and angry. On the same note though I can't let it consume me or define who I am and at times that means when I'm in a really low mood about it all I also have to remind myself about good things in my life (I hope that made sense) ... to help me feel better also I now use a packer almost all the time. When it comes to sexual frustration I rely heavily on my imagination to find pleasurable release  ... might be a bit of a TMI moment here so if you'd like me to tell you more about what helps me when it comes to dealing with bottom dysphoria and sex/masterbation please feel free to shoot me a pm ... anyway I hope you can find something I've said to be helpful
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BenKenobi

I know how you feel. Though i haven't had top surgery. My breasts don't bother me as much as my lower body. Monthlies way beat out minor inconvenience that are my boobs. I get seriously bad cramps to the point where pain pills do nothing. I want these suckers GONE.
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stephaniec

my take on the issue of genitals is that no matter what you do the skin is the same, the nerves are the same, the genital feeling is the same  , rubbing the skin of a penis is the same as rubbing the skin of a vagina , the orgasm is the same  , there maybe a debate about multiples I don't know its' all really the same. massaging the flesh of the penis is the same as massaging the flesh of the vagina . there is differences some what but the end purpose is  pleasure from flesh on flesh which culminates in orgasm. I've mentally stimulate myself since puberty as if I had a  vagina. I mentally feel I have a vagina . I don't know if I'll ever have GRS because my time on the planet is short compared to if I was 18. Yes it would be great as in my case to physically have what I've always imagined I had. I dreamt for so long of having a man penetrate me properly, but you can have fulfilling sex through lovingly working together with a partner to achieve satisfaction. plus sex is so small of the percentage of interaction with a partner unless you stayed in bed 24/7 and had continuous orgasms. It would be nice to be proper , but  you can achieve quite a lot just through what the hormones will do. I'm quite thrilled with the way my body is conforming to how I've always wished it was. I know it's not being perfect , but I've found I can be quite happy. I am old so my view of sex might be less of an imperative .
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BearGuy

Quote from: phoenix633 on July 31, 2015, 11:07:54 PM
The deeper I get into my own acceptance of who I am the more and more depressed I am that I don't have well you know... and even if I would be able to get bottom surgery one day I know it will never work naturally like a cis guys and that's what I want so badly. I just can't get over this right now. The fact that I will never know what it feels like to use one. That I just wasn't born with the reproductive parts that match who I am. I worry I will never be able to relate to men and know how to act when sex talk comes up. I know I can change a lot about my body but I will never experience what a cis- male penis feels like and it just gets me incredibly depressed. Not to mention the youth that I feel I was robbed being confined and told constantly, you can't act like that or do that and all the years I wasn't seen for who I am. I want to mentally get over these things so I can move on and make the best out of the life I have left. But these feelings make it pretty much impossible for me to release sexual tension and I want to someday be comfortable enough with my body to be intimate with people and enjoy it. It just sucks because it seems so easy for most people and I've just got this huge mental block that stops me from even enjoying these things by myself. I know this is depressing and negative but I just can't move past this right now.

Let me tell you something right now...
But question first. Are you on T already? If not...you know that you grow a small penis on T, right? YES - that's right, you do grow one! It feels just the same as a real one, except small. It's basically a micropenis. It looks and feels like one, and it gets erect just like a cis guy's. It even feels the same when you're having an orgasm...it does the hard/soft/hard/soft/hard/soft thing, if you've ever held another guy's penis when he was climaxing, you know what I'm talking about. Another thing, from my own experience...the orgasms become different. The pleasure relocates. While for females, it's a whole-body kind of thing with your inner muscles contracting, now for me it relocated primarily to the penis (and rectal area, for some reason lol similar to natural male orgasms).
Now - if you're talking about wanting to penetrate someone...that's a little different. Depending on the size you grow, you may actually be able to penetrate (if you get the release surgery, which allows it to stand up after being de-attached). If not...consider phalloplasty. You can keep the micropenis intact underneath. That way, you'll know what penetration feels like, but still have your original penis safe from surgical risks. :)

One last thing... how I learned to deal with these feelings is to simply embrace that I am different and enjoy it. Being unique is awesome. I've noticed in the LGBT community there is an unusual desire and interest in trans guys nowadays. (I'm talking about the 30 and under part of the community, not sure about older).
Think of it this way... you know what it feels like to have both a penis and a vagina. No one else can experience that except trans men. Trans ladies cannot "grow" a vagina; yes, their surgeries are much more functional and aesthetically pleasing in a lot of cases (super lucky!) but us trans guys, we get to grow an actual mini penis while still having a vagina intact.

Peace, brother!
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panther

^ What BearGuy said 110%! You WILL absolutely have a penis. Cis guys aren't always happy with their size nor can they choose. And neither can trans guys (I'm sure women/men and other sexual partners probably appreciate that at some point ;) ) I personally identify totally as male, and being trans was something I happened to go through - like being in high school or something. Pre T I felt how you feel now, but after being on T for a while, I guess I don't feel very different even down there from every other guy. Sure, I'm a bit smaller, but the anatomy is nearly identical (tip, foreskin, shaft, veins, you name it). Testes are overrated, and I don't have to worry about sitting on them when I get older which is nice.

And, what's more - as someone who works in the science/biomedical/medical field, technologies are improving. The key is patience! There are some seriously promising techniques that we learn about and discover every day. As a science nerd, it helps me a lot to just read about things and try to come up with a method to implement them in SRS.

Check out iPS cells! Or even hematopoietic stem cells (HSCs) and vascular stem cells. We may be a while off in time, but that doesn't mean we won't reach it! Hang in there.
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makipu

Quote from: phoenix633 on July 31, 2015, 11:07:54 PM
The deeper I get into my own acceptance of who I am the more and more depressed I am that I don't have well you know... and even if I would be able to get bottom surgery one day I know it will never work naturally like a cis guys and that's what I want so badly. I just can't get over this right now. The fact that I will never know what it feels like to use one. That I just wasn't born with the reproductive parts that match who I am.


I can completely relate and still  feel this exactly like you describe it and I don't even want it for any sexual reason. 
I am male because I say so and nothing more.
I don't have to look or act like one therefore.
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StormOfThorns

Warning - I wrote a novel.

I've been on T over a year now. It does grow as others have said. I agree with you that with the technology now, it's a bit sad that you might lose sensations, but not all. They are getting better and better each year and you can be assured that one day it will probably be just as functional. I've heh looked up a website with FTM post-bottom surgeries and it really does look like the real deal. You will be able to penetrate someday. Even if the testes is just for asthetics right now, you'll still feel the orgasm and who ever you are with (if you plan to stay stealth) you can just say you had a birth defect that made you sterile. Though, honesty is better. Either way, take a deep breath and calm down.

I remember years ago before even know what transgender was, I did cry and cry wishing I was born male. I played online games too where I was known as a male and even has a few little relationships. It sort of made it worse and I realized it wasn't worth torturing myself to even initiate anything. I did go through a grieving process wishing I could carry through what I was saying to them.. er well... to be blunt... cybering with ciswomen. They honestly couldn't tell I was pretending. Because honestly I wasn't. But inside it sort've hurt more that I had to go to such lengths to feel natural. It helped me escape temporarily. Until I had to look down and go, "oh yea I'm in this body." Blah. I remembering being purely miserable. Thinking that there was no other way. That I'd waste my life away but never actually experiencing!

But it was my own adoptive mother that watched tv more than I who figured out what the term was. She really lit the path for me. I know not very many folk get a parent like that. My saving grace. I finally had at least some sort of hope. I originally started my journey out thinking that I was doing it for others so I would stop being called the hated "she, her" pronouns. Over time I've learned it's really about my happiness and knowing that some thoughts are only going to be toxic. I am still just beginning my own journey, but I've noticed my own thoughts are transitioning along with my body. Mourning is the start of the natural process of reaching your own acceptance. But it's up to you to reach that. It is not hopeless.

As a personal experience though even with the low amount of T I get and it's grown 2 inches so far, lol. I can honestly say you really can simulate how it would feel. The "hood" grows as well and is pretty much like a foreskin to be honest. And actually because of the growth it's more sensitive. The mini D has actually more sensitivity than a cismale D as far as I've heard. I know that is a little bit different than intercourse itself. You will know how it feels to use one. You kind've already do, it's just lined up a little differently. You maybe won't be able to ejaculate semen, but I would image with the surgery, the fluid has to go thru the hole, right? Along with that... sex is not just about bumping parts together. Emotions are a bigger player than maybe you realize? I dunno. It might take time for you to gradully accept yourself. One day you will.

I've never told anyone this but I have huge mental blocks still. I get annoyed when my sex drive is getting stronger, but it feels wrong to carry through. Because it doesn't feel right. It doesn't look right. I can't stand to look. I don't look forward to even needing to take a piss knowing I have to be reminded.

Even worse, my neighbor actually tried to proposition me for sex even though I told him I want to be seen as a male, and treated that way. But he went ahead and said "I respect your view and all but I still see you have the female parts." Very contradictive, huh? When I came back inside I turned into a deer in headlights. I had a literally fit. I cried, I puked, I never had my dysphoria hit me so physically. I had an abusive childhood that contributes to that, too. I panicked.

I won't go into anymore detail, but yea. Sometimes life likes to slap you in the face. Life in nightmare mode. I was finally feeling some inner peace and acceptance. Or so I thought. Just look how easy it was to knock my inner peace over. Was I running away and just putting on a positive mask to not look and see my situation?

I even go as far to think I wish we were never even born with genitals and were all neutral. That things feel so wrong that the majority of the population thinks in binaries still. Still in the dark ages of thinking. I sort've feel that is why we exist and go through this life journey to show the whole world how wrong they are. It's all in your head. Only your perception can be the rope that gets you out of the hole, or you can just sit in the dark and whine that it's all over. Or you can look for a way out. No matter how many of us tell you our opinions and points of view, you gotta be the one to grab the rope. I wish I had the ability to take everyone's pain away and throw out a spell that gives everyone what they wish so they can finally feel that happiness and love they seek. But... here we are.

You can't run away from it. It's hard to deal with at times. I had some very dark thoughts (not suicidal, but homicidal lol but I never could carry through I became so hateful, spiteful). It's a horrible feeling, being in a dark place, dark thoughts, feeling sick of it. Wanting a way to make it stop. All you can do is calm down, regain some mindfulness and realize it's not your fault. You can't always change how others think and see you. That is their problem, not yourself. It's only your problem when you can be affected by it. It only means you have to deal with it. It's not the easiest life path. It may be difficult, but don't get swept away with these emotions. Let yourself mourn, but keep moving forward.

I don't know the full details of surgery itself as it's been an oddly difficult thing to research due to it feeling like "just window shopping" ya know? What's the point in looking if I don't got the money for it yet. With Medicaid starting to accept sex change operations (I'm told normally it starts on the coasts and eventually the inner states will follow suit) it's really going to so much easier for many folks who've been put on disability because of the depression and anxiety that normally accompanies dysphoria. It makes a hell of a lot more sense and would cost less money to allow surgeries than say... 30 years of counseling put together. No?

Another thing to think about; they are on the new horizon of growing organs, yes? Growing hearts, livers, etc. It is not very farfetched to think that even one day testicles could be grown. Heck, I know we are still years from this technology. But NOTHING is impossible. I know it's very hard to be patient but that is all you can assure yourself with. Trust me. I wish I could just blink and it'd be all said and done and move on. It's true though with all the pain and years, inner growth comes part of it. That strength is your ally. You are your own friend. It might feel difficult right now, but this journey itself will make you so much stronger. It might be hard to think that years from now, you'll be able to look back at where you were and say those were tough times, but I survived it. Your story is happening now. Stay in the moment. Be in the moment.

----

TL;DR version: But this topic itself is a deep one. I truly feel you. I hope you can reach a new level of acceptance.

I literally edited this topic over 20 times to make sure I was thorough. Screw the typos, Geesh! Sorry for the personal rant. I er hope it can be helpful at least. I'm an aspie, too. Tend to rant. Oops.
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Muscle Matt

I know a lot of people are trying to share uplifting views here, but I really do feel you on this issue. Yeah, it's just a body part. Yeah, there are more important things in love and relationships than your equipment. Yeah, yours will grow a bit on T.

But when that body part is so important to you, the one thing you've always wanted more than anything, it's hard to even take to heart any other way of thinking.

Personally, I've always felt inferior in every way because of this missing piece. It affects my outlook on every single day. I know I shouldn't be so negative, but ever since I was little, I always wished I could have this one thing. And even now knowing that once I get on T, what I've got will grow, it still can't turn back the hands of time and let me replay my entire life with this part. So many parts of my life would have turned out differently. Honestly, so many parts of other people's lives would have turned out differently. It's heartbreaking thinking back on everything, and still, thinking ahead to the future.

Hopefully one day, through Testosterone treatments, we can slowly begin to make peace with what life has dealt us. It's hard living this life, living with the knowledge of what could have been. But on the worst days, you have to try to pick your head up and remember, it could always be worse. Remember that there are some cis guys who are born in unfortunate circumstances as well. There are people in the world who don't even know if they will ever eat again. Children who grow up in hospital beds, hooked up to medical equipment their entire lives. If you're able to use a computer and think about the future and getting medical treatments, then your situation can't be all that bad. It could always be worse. And unfortunately, that's the best I can offer you.
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GnomeKid

I'm feeling the exact same thing right now..  I could have written most of that out of the thoughts circulating through my head every day. 

I'm all the way transitioned except bottom surgery (hopefully happening within the next 2 years if all goes according to plan) but I cannot get these thoughts out of my head.  So I guess what I'm trying to say is... I wish I could help you shut them off, but I haven't been able to figure it out quite yet myself. 
I solemnly swear I am up to no good.

"Oh what a cute little girl, or boy if you grow up and feel thats whats inside you" - Liz Lemon

Happy to be queer!    ;)
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jlaframboise

When I went to counseling. I had a big problem with this too. Cis Men who get into accidents where they might lose their penis or have some sort of related injury have to grieve. So I put myself there. Being a man who simply has to mourn what he doesn't have.  But to assume that if you potentially had phalloplasty, that it wouldn't work like a cis guys penis does, isn't accurate. I feel like having something hanging between my legs is the missing piece. The fact that someday I plan to get bottom surgery and can have sex/penetrate and pee the way I want to makes the dysphoria disappear. In regards to what everyone else said though, you gain a lot with going on T and even just having the amount of growth transguys can get, there's so much you can do and feel.


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GnomeKid

Quote from: jlaframboise on August 04, 2015, 10:56:56 PM
But to assume that if you potentially had phalloplasty, that it wouldn't work like a cis guys penis does, isn't accurate.

Current procedures will not give a dick that will be soft and then have my own blood rush into it to make it become hard when I get aroused.  My surgically implanted testicles will not produce sperm.  I will never cum out of my dick, and I will never get a girl pregnant naturally (if at all).  Last time I checked almost all cis guys penises do all of those things. 

Not trying to be a douche, but its unfair to tell someone that what they perceive is wrong when it is just the blunt truth.  Part of grieving a loss is being honest with yourself about what that loss actually is.  Its something all of us have to come to terms with. (except maybe some of the super super young ones who may be lucky enough to get stem cell grown dicks and balls with biological abilities)
I solemnly swear I am up to no good.

"Oh what a cute little girl, or boy if you grow up and feel thats whats inside you" - Liz Lemon

Happy to be queer!    ;)
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