Hello everyone,
Sorry but this is a difficult question and I'll preface it with content warnings for sexual assault.

My endocrinologist has a reputation for being pretty creepy, and I've been a bit concerned that some of the stuff he's doing isn't normal endocrinologist stuff.

Situation:  I was having a three month check up (I just started HRT) and my doctor asked me to lie on his table while he took blood pressure.  He then wanted to see my breasts and how they're developing, and while I was taking off my shirt he pulled at my skirt waistband.  I was wearing tights so it's not like he got a look at anything but that's clearly inappropriate.
Then when he was examining my chest he was feeling my breasts and measuring with a ruler and trying to see if I was discharging fluid (that's a problem for me at the moment).  I'm unsure whether this stuff is normal with a checkup or whether it isn't. 

I know some people who see him and he measures testicular volume and that kind of stuff too.

So is this normal?  I know he's being creepy as ->-bleeped-<- regardless, but I'm just questioning a lot of his practices now.
Thanks.

Well by the way you describe it, it certainly sounds sketchy to me.

Whether I would do anything about it would depend on a lot of factors, and it's a judgement call only you can make. It sounds like you already know. Do you think he would react badly if you asked him about it?

I don't know what they're *supposed* to do in that regard but mine had to be asked to examine my breasts and they've never once mentioned doing a physical, much less measuring my gonads. They pretty much only seem concerned with normal doctor's office checkup stuff like heart rate, blood pressure, weight, and blood tests.

Well, my endo clearly asked beforehands if I was comfortable showing them and even joked about ladies' shyness. Once they were out, she took a look, measured them, established their Tanner stage and thoroughly examined them, making clear point that I now should start paying attention to any weird formations appearing them (aka breast cancer). The biggest difference, ofc, was that she is female, so doing something with my breasts did not come off as creepy... Another point is, that endos have to and do this kind of stuff, irrespective of their gender...

Some endos will probably be more thorough than they need to be. I guess some of it depends on what they think is the most important thing to check... but it can be a fine line. If you feel uncomfortable being seen and treated that way maybe consider finding a new doc.

Well speaking as someone who is currently being trained as a doctor myself I think there are circumstances where one could justify breast and/or gonadal examination during HRT.

However the patient would need to be properly consented, the purpose of the exam explained and noted in the notes, and it is likely (at least under UK rules) that there should be a chaperone present to ensure that everything is done correctly.

Bottom line it is quite possible, even probable, that this is medically legitimate, but if you are being made uncomfortable you should as for a chaperone, which would be best practice to provide in that situation anyway.

Is your endo groping you?

Well, it's possible but not likely.

Quote from: Ara on August 07, 2015, 01:28:41 AMMy endocrinologist has a reputation for being pretty creepy

What have you heard previously?

Quote from: Ara on August 07, 2015, 01:28:41 AMwhile I was taking off my shirt he pulled at my skirt waistband

Was he simply trying to help?  Like... as you were lifting your shirt, was it possible it was catching your skirt and it was lifting and he was trying to keep everything in place?  If this isn't the case, I have nothing~

Quote from: Ara on August 07, 2015, 01:28:41 AMThen when he was examining my chest he was feeling my breasts and measuring with a ruler

This I can say with 110% certitude is normal.  (details below)

Quote from: Ara on August 07, 2015, 01:28:41 AMI know some people who see him and he measures testicular volume and that kind of stuff too

Again, 110% normal.

Breast tissue growth is a decent indicator of progress, as well as testicular atrophy.  It's not enough just to look at levels, they want to see how your particular body is progressing and what is actually working for you.

They also, believe it or not, are checking for cancer, and those two places are the most common types in trans-girls, with (according to mine) testicular cancer being more prevalent.

My endo has given me a rather um "detailed" examination every single time.  Top off, checking out the boobs (measuring, feeling, commenting upon development).  Then pants and underwear off and a "generous" groping of my balls, or what's left of them.  I also get the finger up the ass too.

My take on this?  Sure, it's "only" HRT and can generally be measured by blood tests, but HRT has some important and massive physical effects on your chest and genitals.  If your endo is not physically examining the areas of your body that are affected by HRT, I would suggest that your endo is not doing the job properly and perhaps bordering on incompetence or malpractice.  It's not just about making sure your hormone levels are in normal ranges.  It's about that and making sure the changes that are caused are healthy and progressing properly.  If the endo is not checking testicular size or breast growth during this process (including taking measurements), I'd be extremely worried.

I haven't had any doctors even look at my breasts since beginning HRT and definitely not lower. I wasn't aware that they had needed to, just thought getting my blood work done was the only point of visits.

Well if you are uncomfortable you might think about going to another endo.

You could have a look here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,109367.msg825414.html#msg825414

its a link to a list with transgender friendly gp and psychs in Australia.
You just have to email there to have it sent to you.

hugs

Thanks everyone, you all helped answer some questions.

My problem before was that we only have two endocrinologists in my state, one who checks body stuff and one who doesn't. 
My endocrinologist has a reputation for touching people inappropriately, and I think that's what he was doing with my skirt.  My shirt wasn't stuck in it or anything and he didn't lift it long enough for there to be any medical reason anyway.  He'd have asked me to take it off if there was a medical reason. 
However I do think the breast exam was legit.  I just didn't know whether it was or not so I wanted to check with a wider variety of people who see endocrinologists.  It seems to be 50/50 with those kinds of checks.

I'm a little uncomfortable with him but I now have a better idea of what is crossing a line so maybe I'll be more self empowered next time it happens.

Well you might do something with clothing...
instead of a skirt baggy jeans...
the least sexy bra you have...
etc...


hugs

Doctor's should conduct regular physical exams even when not transitioning.  The typically suggested interval for cis-men is a year (not sure about the ladies).  I had a physical at Planned Parenthood where the checked out everything just briefly, top, bottom, middle, and so on.  When I went to my Endocrinologist for the first time (2 months after going to PP), she wanted to conduct a physical but we ran out of time and will do it at the next visit.  I told her I had just had one 2 months ago at PP and she said, "Yes, maybe, but 'I' didn't conduct it, so I can't be certain."

Makes sense to me.  So regular physicals are recommended regardless of gender, and probably more often for transitioners to measure progress in conjunction with lab results.

As for the "detailed" level of attention you got, I have no comment.  My physical 2 months ago before starting hormones was mostly visual with a mild breast exam to check for cancer.  She even asked me to lift my own scrotum so she could look underneath.  I was kinda surprise at how much less invasive it was than my previous "male" physicals.  e.g. No turn the head and cough...

MD's and DO's should always ask for consent for examining your body. Its not like "lie here, squeeze, poke, measure, move, yank, grab", nah, he is probably copping a feel, at best he is being insensitive, which is bad bedside manners. All the MD's and DO's that have examined me, all tell me beforehand, I'm going to blanketly blank, and then proceed with the exam or procedure, respectfully and very mechanical like, not like glaring or anything (i.e. mind you, I have a extremely rare benign cancer, which can turn malignant), so I do get examined, yearly by a dermatologist and oncologist, for 10 years now. My girlfriend has filed complaints against MD's for bad bedside manners, since I tell her what to expect. MD/OD's should know better and always be respectful of their patients, and not be insensitive of their patients personal comfort levels, much less culturally insensitive (ie.there are differences between men and women cultures you know). If you feel wierded out by that endo, get yourself another one, not like he's the only one in town, cause if he is, then no wonder he thinks he has a free pass.

Bad bedside manners, I attribute to some medical professionals.

My endo has never touched me.. I asked him once if he wanted to measure anything or whatever, he said "nope, you look like you're doing fine, I'm just interested in your blood"

Id been on hrt for a couple of years before I met him though, so maybe there was no point in him checking. What you describe sounds reasonably normal though.

I hope there is no groping or inappropriate behavior. I see women for this very reason.  First breast exam and mammogram we're definitely different not awkward but different I felt very feminine during my exams.  I was gowned and treated as Shannon.

Was a female nurse present?  I am all for thorough.  Breast pelvic/groin and recall but be careful