It's probably the biggest load of crap in the whole trans process. I really hate that some healthcare professionals feel the need to interfere with my personal life and force me to do something that I'm not comfortable with. Not all of them are guilty of this, but a decent amount are if you want to proceed and not be stuck. If you get maimed in an accident and have your nose partially turned to hamburger meat, reconstructive surgeons don't need proof that you once had a nose, used it to smell things, and force you to wear some fake nose and mustache around for a while just to be absolutely sure that you can function in society as someone that can't really fool anyone into thinking that they currently have a nose. As it turns out, I have enough trouble saving up for all of these procedures that are so conveniently not covered by pretty much everyone without having to spend tons of money going through an entire wardrobe change to look like an overly obvious transvestite. If that was my goal, what in the hell do I need a surgeon for when I can just run down to Wal-Mart and grab a single outfit to go out cross dressing in? It's not even safe. I have no intention of actually participating in this flaming hoops act, I'll find someone who will sign off on it long before I stoop to that.

I find it barbaric to say at the least.
I've decided on my own RLE. I don't see the need to "prove" myself to anyone.
However if you really need to do this because of therapy, you could always go in girl/guymode when you see that person.

I cried a lot about it in the early months because I couldn't fathom it but after giving it some time and understanding... I don't really mind anymore.

"without having to spend tons of money going through an entire wardrobe change to look like an overly obvious transvestite."
Yep, that's what holds me back too, I will only emulate rather then be... But I do like pretty clothes so if it's only "that" to convince others, possibly myself, i'll take it.

It could be very fun also .

Yes it's scary and it could have implications but don't let that take you down or withold you from what you really want to.

I mean, this is what you want, no?

Thanks for making this post. It helped me with a decision I was pondering.

This says it all:

https://www.susans.org/2015/08/03/rle-civil-rights-issue/

I found RLE perfectly acceptable. I think it is smart to see how you deal with social, work and other situations before you have changed all your papers, IDs, etc. Beside that it is a requirement for all under WPATH Standards of Care. I would rather find out before I had no way out of any issue's to address before hand. Most I have spoken too appreciated it as a natural pause and adjustment period.

Quote from: suzifrommd on August 13, 2015, 04:41:45 AM
This says it all:

https://www.susans.org/2015/08/03/rle-civil-rights-issue/

Omg this site is so wonderful

Well I certainly added that to my book of arguments XD

The artice and other research article all state that there is no need for RLE, there is no advantage. Its barbaric and very easily circumvented.

Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 13, 2015, 04:53:09 AM
I found RLE perfectly acceptable. I think it is smart to see how you deal with social, work and other situations before you have changed all your papers, IDs, etc. Beside that it is a requirement for all under WPATH Standards of Care. I would rather find out before I had no way out of any issue's to address before hand. Most I have spoken too appreciated it as a natural pause and adjustment period.

I agree, but I hope you've girded up your loins and fastened your armour. I think some people think that doctors sit around trying to make our lives hard.

Quote from: warlockmaker on August 13, 2015, 05:26:46 AM
The artice and other research article all state that there is no need for RLE, there is no advantage. Its barbaric and very easily circumvented.

Maybe it would help if people realised that RLE is for them, for their own good. Mine forced me to confront several issues and my transition was better for it.

Now, I realise I am getting into a semi-religious argument here and I dislike that, but I am too stupid to ignore stuff like this so I will leave you all to it, but try remembering that sometimes the harder route can turn out to be the best.

I think it is excruciatingly damaging. In Denmark (I don't know about other countries) you need to live through RLE for 6 months I think it is, it might be more though, before you can even start HRT.
So you are forced to look like someone you don't want to be essentially. It is so wrong and it makes me so angry that the treatment of ->-bleeped-<- is so far behind, in Denmark specifically.
I'm lucky enough to have started HRT in Spain, and I'm continuing in Denmark because my doctor is confident that what I'm doing is right (even though only one clinique in the capital administers treatment). It's grotesque.

I can't help but post on these topics, but I fear I'm getting repetitive. I'll try for a slightly different angle.

The reason I keep posting is that I never wanted to follow what's in WPATH (or anything else) and it's caused a great deal of stress having gender issues and being told I have to do the wrong thing. If only it had been easy to follow my own path in the first place I'd have arrived at the same point I have now, but without all the stress along the way. Maybe even without the depression.

The world is full of variety, which we see in these posts where people stand on opposite sides of the discussion. No doubt some of the people complaining of gatekeeping actually do have mental health issues that need resolving first, and yet other times its the therapists that actually engage in real gatekeeping. I feel that a key difference between these sides is that I just want to be left alone, while the other side wants to tell me what to do.

I don't know whats best for other people, I just want freedom for myself, and I count myself lucky that I have the ability to take it. I do feel for those who can't.

So I've learned a thing or two over the years; things I wish I'd know from the start. If you're intelligent, determined, and have a bit of money you can basically ignore the entire WPATH SOC. Doing so is sufficiently difficult that its probably a good test of mental stability, and at the end of the day I'd not recommend it unless you have a really really good reason. It's a lot easier to just put up with all the crap and unfairness and do what you're told.

RLE before hormones = cruel and degrading practice

RLE before SRS - highly emotionally loaded topic, yet it is debatable with pros and cons for both sides (if You asked me a year ago, my answer would have been totally different). Still, I am not following the WPATH and doing my own interpretation of RLE, which works (for me) and helps to understand some things better and from another perspective.

P.S. And everytime I see that something is forced, my inner anarchist just has to rebel .

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on August 13, 2015, 08:01:25 AM
RLE before hormones = cruel and degrading practice

RLE before SRS - highly emotionally loaded topic, yet it is debatable with pros and cons for both sides (if You asked me a year ago, my answer would have been totally different). Still, I am not following the WPATH and doing my own interpretation of RLE, which works (for me) and helps to understand some things better and from another perspective.

P.S. And everytime I see that something is forced, my inner anarchist just has to rebel .

I kind of agree with this. I think that RLE for SRS is perfectly acceptable. Not only that but your surgeon will want you on HRT for some time anyway.

But requiring it before HRT is just wrong and damaging. The main reason is that few people can "pass" without some HRT and it may be more damaging for them. The other is that for many people the HRT may bring about much welcome mental changes.

Just my opinion.

It's the same in Belgium here (I believe)
One year RLE before you get hormones.

-_-

Thank Anonyms I will keep this in mind.

For me the most horrible thing about RLE before hormones is:
shame, pain & guilt because i'm not a woman and no matter how hard I try it just feels I emulate by acquiring characteristics, clothing or stereotypical behaviour.

Oh and the dread and fear because you get recognized instantly... Yes I feel so safe !

!

I do like shopping for clothes so that's alright

Quote from: Swayallday on August 13, 2015, 08:07:56 AM
It's the same in Belgium here (I believe)
One year RLE before you get hormones.

-_-

Thank Anonyms I will keep this in mind.

I am not sure about this - I met transgender expert from the gender clinic in Ghent and he said that they have pretty modern approach where they schedule interviews, take the tests and then arrange everything up, including the State-funded SRS...

~.~ darling I should really go to Ghent.

Quote from: Swayallday on August 13, 2015, 08:11:07 AM
~.~ darling I should really go to Ghent.

I can give You the contact info

Quote from: Swayallday on August 13, 2015, 08:07:56 AM
It's the same in Belgium here (I believe)
One year RLE before you get hormones.

-_-

Thank Anonyms I will keep this in mind.

For me the most horrible thing about RLE before hormones is:
shame, pain & guilt because i'm not a woman and no matter how hard I try it just feels I emulate by acquiring characteristics, clothing or stereotypical behaviour.

Oh and the dread and fear because you get recognized instantly... Yes I feel so safe !

!

I do like shopping for clothes so that's alright

If you are interested in hrt you might ask... don't let tis keep you from trying and asking around.
Quite a few countries are adapting because they might be liable if people are attacked...

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on August 13, 2015, 08:01:25 AM
RLE before hormones = cruel and degrading practice

RLE before SRS - highly emotionally loaded topic, yet it is debatable with pros and cons for both sides (if You asked me a year ago, my answer would have been totally different). Still, I am not following the WPATH and doing my own interpretation of RLE, which works (for me) and helps to understand some things better and from another perspective.

P.S. And everytime I see that something is forced, my inner anarchist just has to rebel .

I was fortunate in that I found a GP who had been a gay rights activist when he was a medical student.  I was prescribed hormones with informed consent and I was able to get on with making my transition without having to be messed around by gatekeepers.  Unfortunately my daughter ended up being snared by gatekeepers when she was trying to begin HRT and from what I saw as a parent trying to support her child the therapists we tried were either completely clueless or else were trying to fleece us of every coin we had to our name.

RLE enforced by gatekeepers is nothing short of cruel, inhumane and degrading and nothing will change my opinion on that.

Quote from: AnonyMs on August 13, 2015, 07:48:30 AM... If you're intelligent, determined, and have a bit of money you can basically ignore the entire WPATH SOC.

It worked for me but I still had to buy two letters.  Having a single-minded determination towards SRS.  Helped put my (good) doctors, (good) therapist and surgeon at ease.