I have had to be tolerant and understanding to my community since I publicly have come out as  TG in Hong Kong. They know that I will completely transition from December this year but I continue to dress androgenously to ease the discomfort that many feel in my social activities for the time being. This has made me more approachable to people that have the desire to know more about us and of course, those kind souls that believe they can change my decision.

I hope that more of us will be the tolerant ones otherwise we are little better than the narrow minded bigots. Understand others so that they can understand us, is what I have found to be my best way.

The most persistent has been those of the Christian faith. I remind them that my family and I lived as Catholics. Today, my sister speaks in tongues and my nephew is a Jesuit priest. They all have accepted my decision to live my life and not hurt others - making people feel uncomfortable does not apply. But many of these kind Christians, with the best of intentions, just do not seem to have the intellectual capicity to understand. Intellectual capacity is, not about intelligence but the desire to understand. I have been given books and talked to by them because I am tolerant and have changed a few attitudes. I am a  bhuddist and have been one since my twenties and it's my religion which I find most acceptable of who I am.

yeah be careful with people like that. some think they can "fix" us or pray away our being trans. it doesn't work but they dont get that

Quote from: warlockmaker on November 21, 2015, 11:04:11 PM
I hope that more of us will be the tolerant ones otherwise we are little better than the narrow minded bigots. Understand others so that they can understand us, is what I have found to be my best way.

Sorry, I can't see it that way. If someone is trying to tell me I'm "wrong" or "sick" or "misguided" or"disgusting" or  "insane" just because they don't want to be open minded or understanding then I don't care how nice or gentle or with what intentions they try to do it. To them I would suggest it is none of their business and they should either keep it to themselves or go away. To suggest I am a bigot for, quite frankly not giving a$#&% what they think, is really extraordinary. If you've found it in you to tolerate them that's nice for you but please refrain from trying to implant that code onto anyone else.

I'm really happy for you that you're either an astoundingly easy going person or you haven't been abandoned and destroyed by every person you've ever known.

Truely, count your blessings.

I believe and I hope that I am a very tolerant person. I accept all. I forgive most. Some I cannot.

I was born into a Roman Catholic family and raised as a christian, a faith that I deserted at an early age while being raped by christian brother, men of the church who believed in Christ.

I decided when I transitioned that other peoples opinions of me was irrelevant, I am always happy to talk about my life, my changes and what being transgender means; but I do not accept intolerance - particularly from religious people. I do not accept intolerance to myself and I certainly do not accept intolerance to people who may be less advantaged as I. I will and do stand up for them when they are confronted and I am present.

I have a problem with religion - one reason I avoid commenting upon it. I am tolerant of people's beliefs, but I do not accept them

For me, religion is an excuse to dismiss humanity. It is a abrogation of moral principles, it is an excuse to use a god, or a religious belief to replace ones responsibility as a human being. "I can do what I want hidden in my religious belief and my god will save me when I ask for forgiveness".

Some, not all, people in such religions use it as a crutch to escape the hard facts of being a moral human being: They fail to realise that I am not superior to anyone and I am not inferior to anyone; nor is anyone else.

To even try to justify myself to such people is, for me, an exercise in accepting that their belief has a foundation. It has none.

if you really want to you can have a little fun with them. roll your eyes at them and say ," Im trying but the demons are just to strong" then do something crazy yet funny. super religion people can be fun to play with sometimes. and they normally have no clue your yanking their chain.

I have no tolerance for any discrimination. I am tolerant for people who have a desire to understand. I appreciate people that care enough to try and help me though on a misguided way so long as they do not impose their way as the only one. I will work with one person at a time, give them elbow room to understand. Hope that clarifies it more .

Quote from: warlockmaker on November 22, 2015, 01:06:48 AM
I have no tolerance for any discrimination. I am tolerant for people who have a desire to understand. I appreciate people that care enough to try and help me though on a misguided way so long as they do not impose their way as the only one. I will work with one person at a time, give them elbow room to understand. Hope that clarifies it more .

Sorry if I went over the top. I just get ........ annoyed with religions trying to impose their will when they have no foundation for it in morality.

I'll shut up

I had a sad religious event. My good friend's  daughter who has 2 children of 5 and 6 gave me a book on Christian spirituality. I accepted it but after the first paragraph I stopped reading and have left it in a public area. Some of the conservative Chinese believe I can infect their children with my TG. They are very well educated but they cling to weird beliefs - including cancer which they feel transfers because in long married couples when one gets cancer the other follows. Stupid logic .... but they are basically ignorant on our topic and many just don't want to understand. Remember in 1983 when my brother came out as gay with potentially a life sentence the Chinese used to say it was only westerners. Haha their emperors were bi and we are 50 pct Chinese. 

Hi All:

I tried to write something coherent and helpful here.  I failed and you won't have to endure my flagellating this matter to much, though am I sorry for this does come as a rant. 

I'm not very patient and loving anymore concerning narrowed mined and self-righteousness being substituted for self-determination and well established fact-based living.  However, I'm also fine if people want to think that ->-bleeped-<- is <whatever they make up> as long as it's not veil and dangerous.  But when people take up these beliefs in such a way as to deny or infringe upon my brothers' and sisters' rights to live happy and full lives in the gender of their choice, this is not acceptable! 

There's simply no room for negotiation on this in my world anymore.  I tried that path for years and watched others do so too.  Looking back I am proud of our efforts and equally dismayed how long it took me and so many others to get that these efforts by-in-large delayed our ultimate happiness and joy without any substantial results.  Those who choose to accept did and those who didn't did not  . . . in my case I'm talking the better part of 10 years, and I'm not suggesting that it doesn't take time for many to adjust to the change.  That's natural and expected.

How each trans-person deals with this on a personal level is just that, personal.  I respect that.  Further, I will lovingly and consistently encourage you continue to love those you hold dear including friends, but beyond that my advice is to be polite and firm about getting on with your life as the real you, keeping in mind your safety and immediate well-being. 

How one does that is personal too, but enduring their angst long-term is not an act of kindness or love.  Neither is making 'those' people feel bad, and I agree until the choice is between them suffering because of their own beliefs and actions versus trans-people suffering by accommodating them.  This leaves plenty of room for being nurturing and kind, which is always preferred.  Beyond that, live long and prosper my dear friends.


Rachel

Spreading lies and misinformation about trans people (like saying we can change our minds) is hate.

No other word for it.

Sorry, but I don't think it is a good thing to be tolerant of hate.

Warlockmaker, I admire your tolerance but I don't share it. Its admirable trying to get people to change, but I fear I'm not a nice enough person to even make the attempt. I'm a bit puzzled how you managed to hold to this after what I've read of your past. Good for you.

I also don't want to get involved with people like that; I've got a life to get on with and dealing with people like this brings out the negative side of my personality. It has a negative affect on my happiness and I don't want to live like that. Some individuals stand up for whats right, helping everyone, and suffer for it. Like most of us I'm no hero, but I appreciate those who are.

I'm very tolerant to most things, but not in the slightest to people trying to control others, especially me. I am extremely intolerant to that. At best I would refuse to have anything to do with these people, including family it it was them. Luckily I've never been presented with a situation where its a problem, but I'm not out yet either so no doubt that helps. I have some very bad habits and would probably enjoy hurting them (not physical). I don't really like that about me, but its what it is. I've been exploring my good side lately, and I have to say I much prefer it. HRT's helped.

I share Cindy's feeling about religion, although I have to say that's the most eloquent I've ever seen it put. But I'm far more negative that that.

I'm with Suzi calling it hate. I'm fine with people hating me, its their right. Just so long as they don't do anything about it, which of course is the problem.

It's just rude and as hateful as trying to change someone's religious beliefs without provocation. No one would accept walking up to someone wearing a cross in public and asking them to justify themselves. You don't have to react with anger or violence but you don't have to accept it either. The only reason i could see to read what they give you is to refute it but I honestly don't have the energy.

If you are not Christian you can just tell them to read their scriptures where it explicitly tells them that what you do is not their business.

1 COR 5
12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves

They won't like that though because it removes their ability to act publicly self righteous and indignant.

Quote from: Deborah on November 22, 2015, 09:57:39 AM
If you are not Christian you can just tell them to read their scriptures where it explicitly tells them that what you do is not their business.

1 COR 5
12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves

They won't like that though because it removes their ability to act publicly self righteous and indignant.

Does that really work?

I try to be myself and be nice to others even when they are mean. Ive dealt with people attack me for even being nice to transgender people. Those not even realizing Im transgender have called me all sorts of names including the worst insults. I try to be kind to them. I believe in god, jesus and heaven and on. I have never proclaimed as a christian but I do have christian leaning beliefs and views on things. I also know that God and Jesus made me transgender for a reason and I believe when I go to heaven, Ill be turned into the girl that has been not but also yes suppressed by me having a boy body and worse to is testosterone which makes it all worse.

They like to say god makes no mistakes. Well me being transgender is not a mistake. God and Jesus made me this way and while it's made my life difficult, it's also helped me be alot better person. I wish nobody to be transgender as it is hard to deal with and those who insult us should feel lucky, not mean.

They like to yell pervert and I am trying to learn to just be nice to them while also knowing Im not a pervert and they dont get it. Id give anything to click my fingers and be me, a girl inside and out.

The other thing is when they use god and jesus to insult and degrade transgender people, I just think why would god and jesus make me transgender and than punish me when I try to be the girl I am. God and Jesus love me and that's what counts and like my dad and other relatives and friends who passed away and now know my secret.

Dont get angry, just be nice to them.

Quote from: AnonyMs on November 22, 2015, 10:01:55 AM
Does that really work?

I think the ones it will work on are the ones that aren't really a problem to begin with.  The others believe they are God's hands on earth and are past reason.

My opinion is that in trying to force their beliefs on others they have crossed the line from religion to political movement and as such deserve no more respect or accommodation than any others aberrant political belief.

I hope I didn't misconstrue warlockmaker's point.

While I understand and sympathize with both sides, I think a bit of understanding can go a long way in changing attitudes.  Truly belligerent people should never be suffered in silence-though I have done that myself to maintain family integrity.  However, we are a very small minority.  We need to change and influence the people we can.  Get them on our side, or at least show them our basic humanity. 

That is how the gay community was able to produce a sea change in public opinion towards them.  In my lifetime I have seen interracial couples risk death when walking hand in hand in public to being culturally acceptable by most, not all.  Gays going from being universally bashed by the public to having their marriages accepted by the highest court in the land. 

Much of this occurred slowly, and by making friends and political partners along the way.  There are now a number of churches which actively support us in an open and affirming way.  Conservative Jews just voted to do so.  I doubt that the Orthodox will do so anytime soon, but that is OK.  Some members of conservative churches will see that acceptance and realize that they have to change themselves.  An evangelical megachurch in (Indiana?) just became open and affirming.  We can individually influence how that occurs, one person at a time.  Gee, I think that is how Christianity grew itself in it's early days. 
   

Quote from: warlockmaker on November 22, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
I had a sad religious event. My good friend's  daughter who has 2 children of 5 and 6 gave me a book on Christian spirituality. I accepted it but after the first paragraph I stopped reading and have left it in a public area. Some of the conservative Chinese believe I can infect their children with my TG. They are very well educated but they cling to weird beliefs - including cancer which they feel transfers because in long married couples when one gets cancer the other follows. Stupid logic .... but they are basically ignorant on our topic and many just don't want to understand. Remember in 1983 when my brother came out as gay with potentially a life sentence the Chinese used to say it was only westerners. Haha their emperors were bi and we are 50 pct Chinese.

Don't you think the paper would better be recycled to be of further use than to leave it in a public place ? 

Well you might simply point out that it was found that being transgender has biological connections, to do with development before birth.
So:
-its not contagious
-its not a fault of an upbringing etc
-old scriptures are simply not up to date
-transgender people have been around in all cultures so its not a cultural but biological cause.
This was proven by autopsies of parts of the brain of transgender people, which had the parts of the gender they identify with... and by the existence of substances which are known to cause a higher rate of transgender offspring.

Well... 
some people may hold on to beliefs and some people may be used to new knowledge...
if delivered in a neutral manner it might convince quite a few people...

wish you fun in choosing your clothing 


hugs

I love Buddha. I see so many similarities in Buddha's and Christ's teaching. I met a waitress about 2 months ago and we had good discussions of out faith and the similarities. I'm Catholic by the way , but I only follow the words of the New Testament  not the modern Church's interpretation of the New Testament. I truly have great love for Buddha.