Susan's Place Logo

News:

Visit our Discord server  and Wiki

Main Menu

I do not understand some trans people

Started by Nicole, May 12, 2016, 05:33:15 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

iamkaylakoch

I agree with Stephaniec. Doesn't matter who it is. We should all be honest with each other
  •  

AnonyMs

Quote from: Paige on May 16, 2016, 09:37:24 AM
I'm not really sure why getting divorced seems so difficult for me.  I do love my wife and family but I think there's more to it than that. 
...
That's why I'm trying to find an in between solution with spiro and possibly low dose E. 
...
The thing is my wife is quite happy with the status quo. 
...
I'm still functional, even though this tears at me every day.

Divorce seems very difficult for me as well, which is one of the reasons I'm doing to so much to avoid it. My wife also seems ok with the status quo, so no social and she'll put up with the rest. Not sure what would happen if I did that, but I've other reasons not to.

I did low dose for years, then a couple of years ago started a full transitioning dose when I started to crack. That fixed me up, and I can still hide the changes. I decided to get SRS if I need to, still not transitioning. Whatever it takes to keep sane. After that though there's nothing much else I could do without being outed. I'll settle for pushing that into the future as long I can.

I've managed to drag it out 8 years or so now. I was functional at the start, then close to non-functional for a while. Functional again, but no telling how long that will last. It does seem to get worse as time goes by, and only steps towards transition help. I don't really think its an ideal way to go about things, but I feel I'm at a point where there's no good options, only least bad.

Apart from the odd way I'm going about it all, I'm not sure I'm very typical of trans people. I don't mean I'm not the standard trans narrative, which I'm not, but I feel different to most people I read about. It doesn't bother me, just be careful how you interpret my experience.
  •  

Paige

Quote from: AnonyMs on May 16, 2016, 11:05:48 AM
I was functional at the start, then close to non-functional for a while. Functional again, but no telling how long that will last. It does seem to get worse as time goes by, and only steps towards transition help. I don't really think its an ideal way to go about things, but I feel I'm at a point where there's no good options, only least bad.

Yes that's exactly how it seems to me too.  The little steps forward seem to really help but eventually they aren't enough and you yearn to do more.  I may want low E now but I do not think that will settle things.  It will hopefully give me time.  Spiro has given me about 8 months.  Eventually I'll want to up the E dose like many others have. 

Quote from: AnonyMs on May 16, 2016, 11:05:48 AM
I've managed to drag it out 8 years or so now. I was functional at the start, then close to non-functional for a while. Functional again, but no telling how long that will last. It does seem to get worse as time goes by, and only steps towards transition help. I don't really think its an ideal way to go about things, but I feel I'm at a point where there's no good options, only least bad.

Apart from the odd way I'm going about it all, I'm not sure I'm very typical of trans people. I don't mean I'm not the standard trans narrative, which I'm not, but I feel different to most people I read about. It doesn't bother me, just be careful how you interpret my experience.

I don't think being typical is always helpful.  We're all very different and it helps to know that there could be other ways of approaching this.  Yours seem to be exactly the path that I'm heading down for better or worse.

Thanks AnonyMs, this has been very helpful.
Paige :)
  •  

WorkingOnThomas

Quote from: Magicka on May 12, 2016, 11:39:15 PM
I definitely can see why your annoyed with that person tc. Trans people need to quite getting with someone and making that person believe they will always be the same person they fell in love with ie a male will always be his wives husband why expect anything else. Then out of nowhere he says I want to be a woman now or I have always been a woman and start transitioning confusing his kids and his wife. Expecting them to just be happy for his self realization and be chipper about it. It don't work that way and should not be expected to at any rate. If one feels like they should be the opposite gender than they should do something about before entering a ltr and having kids that already know you as one thing.

I find that kind of harsh. Sometimes it takes a long time for a trans person to realise what is going on. In the meantime, life happens. Sometimes you realise it, but convince yourself that you can change if you just love the other person enough. In the meantime, life happens. No, obviously, you can't expect the other person to be thrilled for you - but being in a relationship and coming to the realisation that you have to do something doesn't make you bad person, either.
  •  

Peep

I do agree that secrecy in a relationship is asking for trouble, and no one is obliged to stay married to or have sex with anyone that they don't want to, but they also don't have the right to control someone else's body, no matter how long they've been involved with it
  •  

RobynD

Quote from: WorkingOnThomas on May 16, 2016, 12:40:54 PM
I find that kind of harsh. Sometimes it takes a long time for a trans person to realise what is going on. In the meantime, life happens. Sometimes you realise it, but convince yourself that you can change if you just love the other person enough. In the meantime, life happens. No, obviously, you can't expect the other person to be thrilled for you - but being in a relationship and coming to the realisation that you have to do something doesn't make you bad person, either.

I agree with you. I'm not defending dishonesty but i completely agree. Also it is entirely unreasonable to marry someone and expect that they will not change and come to greater self-realization. People sometimes have no idea what is going on within themselves and often do have the time or resources to figure it out effectively. Life happens.


  •  

michelle

I was married for over 30 years and in a relationship for the past 13 years.   I grew up in a family who invited Johnny Walker, Jack Daniels, and Bud Weiser into our house as permanent family members.   Home was kind of an emotional earthquake zone where my mother's emotions ruled the roost.   

From my experience relationships are an emotional tug of war between two individuals over whose needs are going to be met.   If one person, sacrifices their emotional needs so that the other person's emotional needs are always met, then that person becomes selfish and bitter if their needs are not met.    This also happens to the person who always sacrifices.

It is unrealistic when you are in a long term relationship that neither of you will be the same person that you were when the relationship started.   For one thing, you are going to age, and your relationship will have to adapt to the addition of other little egos, your children who are also going to insist that they have the right to change, but you do not.

No relationship can remain static.   When one person claims the right change for themselves but wants the other to  stay the same as when they first met,  this creates an imbalance in the relationship.   When you do change you need to take into an account the other person's feelings.   

Now if one person tends to keep their feelings private, as my ex did, and only display the edited feelings,  then sooner or later the relationship may end like mind did because she didn't want to live with me any more, for her private feelings and their was nothing I could do about.
So it really comes down to the state of your relationship with your wife.   Is there room for each of you to emotionally change without giving the other ultimatums.   Is there understanding of the other's need?   Are both of you willing to make changes which may result in altering the way you see each other?  Or must it be my way or no way on both sides. 

When you are transgender you know you will have to change and become your true gender.  Then deciding your lifestyle in that gender is a matter of choice.   In becoming your male or female self how will you adapt to meet the emotional needs of your spouce.   And what changes will she make to accept you.

Without flexibilty your relationship becomes brittle and breaks.   It is beyond me how some couples stay together inspite of what are unsermountable obsticles while others fall apart. 

I think that both partners have to have commitment to the relationship for some reason and when one or neither is committed then it falls apart.   

When my ex-left me,  I started transitioning in private because I had my home to myself.  I was a school teacher and had five children of which four of them were adults.   Rather than transition in the privacy of my own imagination I found a cis woman, who accepted my femininity but not quite the same way that did.   She had children and we had one.   When I turned 62 and was retired by the Bush Recession and the lack of work I went full time in the context of elementary, middle school, high school, and adult children in my house and my whole past on social media.

Fort he past 8 years I have lived full time and accept the fact that while I am a woman, my partner sees me as a male who dresses as one,  and the world sees me as granny, my spouse as my daughter, and the children as my grand kids.   That is those who are not familiar with my family.   Those who are know that I am a female who has fathered a child and I don't get into anything else.

The point being that you will probably work it out until you don't.   Then if she accepts your feminine side and that you will be feminine in public and at home.   You know that you are a woman,  how she sees you is her business.

I haven't worked out physical transition which I will face when medicare helps pay for my transitioning.   I also live over 1000 miles from my past life,  so those people knee me in my butch mode don't have to deal with me on a day today basis and neither do my birth family that are still living. 

So how I have transitioned may be totally irrelevant to many of you.




Be true to yourself.  The future will reveal itself in its own due time.    Find the calm at the heart of the storm.    I own my womanhood.

I am a 69-year-old transsexual school teacher grandma & lady.   Ethnically I am half Irish  and half Scandinavian.   I can be a real bitch or quite loving and caring.  I have never taken any hormones or had surgery, I am out 24/7/365.
  •  

chris.deee

Wow, this thread hits so close to home.

For me, maintaining a healthy marriage is easily the hardest part of being trans, and for me, it comes down to transparency.

There is always the balance between complete, detailed transparency and not thrashing the relationship with every thought I have on the matter, many of which don't result in any action.

I never hold back permanently - the place where I stumble is deciding when to include my partner in what I'm thinking or what's happening. I typically wait just a little too long.

Most of my wife's negative feelings around this stem from the way she finds things out, not what's actually going on. 

The last time we talked about any trans things, she made it clear she wants me to compartmentalize, which makes it hard to know what to share or when.

Maybe I'm rationalizing, but this isn't a simple black-or-white problem.
  •  

TessaLee

Reasons why I have trouble being transparent after realizing that I am trans 3 years ago:
1: My wife/Family/Pastor/Church is completely opposed to it
2: The amount of hurt that deciding to transition can cause and the number of people that it would negatively affect.
3. The amount of loss that I would feel. Loss of family, loss of a home, loss of care and love
4. Being alone.

I made the determination to transition a few months ago, and had to leave my home. It lasted 2 days. I could not handle life alone. So I returned, leaving my trans life behind (But how do you do that? I can't do that) :( :'(
  •  

TessaLee

Being a foster/adoptive parent, I have helped kids that have experienced great loss and hurt. I have seen their tears at the thought of losing their Dad. They finally transition from using my first name to calling me "Dad", and that is a difficult and big step for them. They finally have a stable family to trust in, and it could all fall apart. One more day with them and with my wife - it is good, but holding back my desire to transition is really difficult. I hurt. I hurt every day.
  •  

Paige

Quote from: TessaLee on May 18, 2016, 07:16:37 AM
Reasons why I have trouble being transparent after realizing that I am trans 3 years ago:
1: My wife/Family/Pastor/Church is completely opposed to it
2: The amount of hurt that deciding to transition can cause and the number of people that it would negatively affect.
3. The amount of loss that I would feel. Loss of family, loss of a home, loss of care and love
4. Being alone.

I made the determination to transition a few months ago, and had to leave my home. It lasted 2 days. I could not handle life alone. So I returned, leaving my trans life behind (But how do you do that? I can't do that) :( :'(
Quote from: TessaLee on May 18, 2016, 07:30:14 AM
Being a foster/adoptive parent, I have helped kids that have experienced great loss and hurt. I have seen their tears at the thought of losing their Dad. They finally transition from using my first name to calling me "Dad", and that is a difficult and big step for them. They finally have a stable family to trust in, and it could all fall apart. One more day with them and with my wife - it is good, but holding back my desire to transition is really difficult. I hurt. I hurt every day.

Hi TessaLee,

I think your comments demonstrate why "honesty is the best policy" is not as easy as some maintain or necessarily the right course of action.  It could bring a lot of pain to others.  In an utopian world I'm sure everything would just work out with 100% honesty but in the real world people can get hurt with honesty too.

In those two days did you tell your wife?

Sorry to hear about your struggles.
Paige :)
  •  

Denni

Hi Paige,
Have been reading your posts on this subject and I agree with you. If only things could be so black and white for everyone there would be no shade of grey would there?  I posted earlier on this thread what I went through with my wife when I came out to her a year ago. Since then we live our lives with the subject not being discussed but my dysphoria has reached the point where I finally seen my doctor yesterday and came out to her. I am hoping like you that low dosage e and spiro will be the answer to the dysphoria.  My hope is that after 4-6 months I can make a better decision on how to proceed. Like you after investing in so many years of marriage it may be easy for some to walk away but I know that I cannot make that statement. Hugs
Denni
  •  

RobynD

Couples therapy was made for changes like this. Honesty is the best thing for sure, measured out against the consequences which many of you have talked about.

Time and time again on these and other forums the subject of "pastors and churches" comes with regard to staying in the closet. I'm in no way anti-religion (i'm a christian), but that angers me every time i hear it. If your faith cannot support you, i would suggest you absolutely attend a church that is not showing love and therefor way out of alignment with doctrine and it is time to change. Faith that exists to keep people in line, is really no faith at all.


  •  

Newfie

Quote from: Paige on May 12, 2016, 11:35:16 AM
I really like that Devlyn.

Nicole, I feel we really don't have enough information to judge.

I know my wife has basically said if I start E, our relationship is over.  We've been married for close to 30 years.  She's known almost from the start that I've been battling this.  She has refused to go to a therapists as a couple or by herself.  She doesn't want to talk about anything transgender.  So I'm struggling with my dysphoria taking spiro.   It sort of helps but not much.   I'm between a rock and a hard place.  Do I try to alleviate my dysphoria by taking low dose E and not telling her or tell her that I'm starting E and lose my marriage?  Or do nothing and continue to suffer for the rest of my life.

I'm sure the answer is easier for some, but I have no clue what to do.  Perhaps my example shows that it might not be as black and white as you think.

Take care,
Paige :)

Paige, if you decide to start low dose E in secret I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. As they say, don't give orders you know won't/ can't be followed. I assume the same holds true for ultimatums. It's definitely a moral gray area, made all the more complicated by intentions.
  •  

Paige

Quote from: RobynD on May 18, 2016, 09:26:37 AM
Couples therapy was made for changes like this. Honesty is the best thing for sure, measured out against the consequences which many of you have talked about.

Time and time again on these and other forums the subject of "pastors and churches" comes with regard to staying in the closet. I'm in no way anti-religion (i'm a christian), but that angers me every time i hear it. If your faith cannot support you, i would suggest you absolutely attend a church that is not showing love and therefor way out of alignment with doctrine and it is time to change. Faith that exists to keep people in line, is really no faith at all.

Hi RobynD,

Wish I could go to couples therapy with my wife but as I said in a previous post my wife doesn't want therapy of any kind and doesn't want to talk about me being transgender.

Also I should point out that for me it has nothing to do with religion.  I'm an atheist and so is my wife.   We are a very liberal family for the most part.

Take care,
Paige :)
  •  

Paige

Quote from: Newfie on May 18, 2016, 11:20:42 AM
Paige, if you decide to start low dose E in secret I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. As they say, don't give orders you know won't/ can't be followed. I assume the same holds true for ultimatums. It's definitely a moral gray area, made all the more complicated by intentions.

Thanks Newfie for the support.  I'll probably tell her if I do decide to take low dose E.   She won't be supportive, she'll assume this is just another step down the path, which I'm not sure about at all.  She stop wearing her wedding ring about 6 months ago, so I'm guessing we'll be talking divorce again.

Take care,
Paige :)
  •  

Cynthia Johnson

Most everyone is like that early on, especially with online support, which can really screw some people up early on. I think some people, especially with separate boards, imagine stratification that isn't there. They see post op transsexuals as the top of the validity ladder and internalized pressure to reach that value and validity form. Some start to convince themselves they're something they may or may not be. If you combine that with so many fairy tale pie in the sky transition stories we've all read, they start to see unconditional love that in most marriages simply isn't there. When I came out to everyone I know and my university it wasn't something I chose, it was because I ran out of choices and had no choice. It doesn't become life or death for everyone, but for some of it does, and you move forward without trepidation because you've accepted the probability of loss. You've seen and read about it over and over. You don't want loss, but you're willing to lose in order to have a chance at an actual identity and not living as a fraud. Some people make it work and plot out coming out and transition like a house remodel, but recent come outs should expect that to be improbable. The point is they're under pressure. They're my trans brothers and sisters, and I feel bad for them, but I've seen so many be overwhelmed early on, and sometimes in that state they say things that might be conjured up to fit in. They have to step back from peers and indirect influence at some point and think. In 15 years or so of online trans chats and boards I've seen too many people grenade their careers, their family, ending up bad, because they were determined to be something they weren't.
  •  

SadieBlake

Quote from: Nicole on May 12, 2016, 05:33:15 AM
I write this knowing it may upset a few, so sorry if it does, send me a PM telling me what a a-hole I am but let's try to keep the conversation on topic..

Maybe it's been that long since I transitioned, maybe I'm out of touch, but something popped up on my Facebook feed the other night and I bit.

It was a pre-out person venting how she hasn't told her wife that she has been on hormones for a few months and she's worried that when she tells her their marriage will be over.

I reiled that her wife would be more likely to leave for not telling her the truth than for being transgendered and she bit my head off.

Now is she just that uneducated that she doesn't get it or are we breeding a generaton of selfish liars who will do almost everything to get what they want and don't care who they hurt?

I get what you're saying, here's how things worked for me.

I was 40+ when I realized I was trans and started my current and primary relationship as trans and out with all my friends my partner from day one. It took some time to realize I might need to pursue transitioning and when I talked to my partner along those lines her response was always quite negative -- which didn't make much sense to me as I've only ever presented as femme sexually.

Fast fwd 16 years and I'd decided I need to start HRT -- realizing that dysphoria is a key element in long term depression that I could not continue to ignore. For better or worse my partner's feelings had been an element of my decision not to carry transition past dressing femme.

The decision came along with a lot of other difficulties, career change etc and I was pretty sure what her response would be and wasn't prepared to be dealing with her negative feelings at the same time as I was needing to assess the effects of estrogen.

Thus I chose to continue a transition dose for about 6 weeks before bringing it up. Keeping it secret sucked to be sure, not being able to talk to my very best friend about how it all felt was not ideal. I did talk with some trans friends and one guy I rely on for his very balanced views. What I did do was drop a few hints and started dressing a bit more femme in daily life.

When I did talk to her about it I was certain I was happy with the results and I presented it as  if I was preparing to start, visible effects were still minimal and unfortunately her responses initially were every bit as negative as I'd expected, worse even in that she played the "I've been accommodating your trans-ness all along" card (distinctly at odds with our daily interaction where she usually volunteers that she likes my femme nature).

Again ffwd to today, things settled within a couple of days and we're  able to share feelings about being female in ways that are new and positive. I believe a big part of her discomfort was - and probably still is - social awkwardness and I'm doing everything I can to minimize that. To be sure she is also quite attached to me being male sexually and while I'm not wild about that as a role, I'm glad to still be able to make her happy.

So I would not do anything differently. It was an experiment that's on-going and adding the variable of relationship angst would have made it hard to evaluate.

And to be 100% honest I don't have a lot of sympathy for the elements of her response that i take for transphobic.

So done and acting on plans for GRS which I may never get to but I'm jumping thru the WPATH hoops to be sure it's an option if I choose it to be.
🌈👭 lesbian, troublemaker ;-) 🌈🏳️‍🌈
  •  

jaybutterfly

Now I can see both sides here a bit, but if it were down to me, I would tell them BEFORE I did anything, but sometimes (more often than not) fear overules a lot of peoples decisions. Fear of loss, rejection, hate, ridicule, all the knock on effects this could have. Its understandable that sadly, many people arent as brave in the face of difficult decisions.

To take a non trans example, someone I was dating for a while wasnt feeling the same way as I was, but didnt know how to break up with me, so they panicked and went off seeing someone else before telling me. This went on for a while and I found out before they told me. They were upset that they hurt me but didnt want to hurt me to my face by telling me. Thing is, that caused me even more hurt, and I refused their request to still be friends after (I was hurting pretty bad).

Now in hindsight, whle I dont like their methodology and how it hurt my trust, I can see why they did that. Fear, again. Thing is, fear often makes us make rash decisions. It's a difficult balance
  •  

Tessa James

Quote from: jaybutterfly on May 19, 2016, 07:20:43 AM
Now I can see both sides here a bit
Now in hindsight, whle I dont like their methodology and how it hurt my trust, I can see why they did that. Fear, again. Thing is, fear often makes us make rash decisions. It's a difficult balance

"We have nothing to fear, but fear itself"   Roosevelt 1933 :)
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
  •