Quote from: Contravene on June 07, 2016, 11:13:34 AM
It all comes down to how comfortable you are with her referring to you as her "exception" and how comfortable you both are with certain labels. I'm sure there are lesbians who date cis men as their exceptions too so I don't see it as being disrespectful since she is correctly referring to you as male.

Great example would be NYC Mayor Bill De Blasio's wife Chirlane McCray.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirlane_McCray

MOST people don't think less of either of them for their marriage. The people who do are haters. LGBT or otherwise.

Quote from: Contravene on June 13, 2016, 04:00:55 AM
Saying that sexuality can only be "one or the other" and can't change is like saying a person can only be male or female and can't change from their birth gender. As transmen we both know (or at least should know) how ridiculous that notion is.

I am sorry but I havering respectfully disagree with that. And uh you don't change your gender you change sex. How are you comparing transitioning to not knowing what you like? I mean no disrespect just curious.

Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on June 13, 2016, 07:50:54 AM
Chase usually has something insightful to say.

Let's not kid ourselves that the FTM community is as pure as the driven snow here because there is a clique on Tumblr called truscum that goes out of its way to harass lesbians who date transmen. They literally stake out certain tags and then jump on people who commit what they consider to be thoughtcrimes.

There may be some truscum folks who do that, but it isn't a universal activity. Truscum people believe that dysphoria is necessary if you are going to say that you're transgender, and that if you did not experience any kind of dysphoria yet saying you're trans, that you are appropriating the trans identity. Some are exclusionary towards non-binary or agender folks, but again, not a universal thing. The more understandable term for them would probably be that they are transmedicalists.

Apologies to OP, don't mean to derail. I see this get mentioned very rarely on here, so I think it is important to be very clear about what it actually means.

Quote from: Brandon on June 13, 2016, 12:24:31 PM
I am sorry but I havering respectfully disagree with that. And uh you don't change your gender you change sex. How are you comparing transitioning to not knowing what you like? I mean no disrespect just curious.

It's no problem, no offense taken. I meant changing sex, I'm just used to using the two terms "gender" and "sex" interchangeably which is a habit I should get out of.

I'm comparing the two because the process of discovering one's sexuality is very similar to the process of discovering one's gender identity. Sexuality can change and a good example of that is how some people who transition experience a shift in their sexuality.

I was trying to give examples of how nothing is just clear cut "one or the other," there aren't moulds that everyone fits into. There are so many different types of sexualities just like there are different types of gender identities.

I guess it can be hard to see how sexuality is fluid unless you've experienced it. For me, I was asexual until I met my fiancée. I discovered that I was romantically and sexually attracted to her so my sexuality changed. So I can understand how there are exceptions to someone's sexuality and how fluid it can be.

Quote from: Contravene on June 13, 2016, 05:16:24 PM
It's no problem, no offense taken. I meant changing sex, I'm just used to using the two terms "gender" and "sex" interchangeably which is a habit I should get out of.

I'm comparing the two because the process of discovering one's sexuality is very similar to the process of discovering one's gender identity. Sexuality can change and a good example of that is how some people who transition experience a shift in their sexuality.

I was trying to give examples of how nothing is just clear cut "one or the other," there aren't moulds that everyone fits into. There are so many different types of sexualities just like there are different types of gender identities.

I guess it can be hard to see how sexuality is fluid unless you've experienced it. For me, I was asexual until I met my fiancée. I discovered that I was romantically and sexually attracted to her so my sexuality changed. So I can understand how there are exceptions to someone's sexuality and how fluid it can be.

Understandable but I prefer not to say my oppinion on that as it might come off as rude.

To say that a lesbian can't be either romantically or sexually attracted to a man is blatant homophobia. If a straight person called attention to a homosexual desire they might have, no one would automatically claim that their sexuality is invalid. Being a lesbian or straight or a man or a woman is about identity, not behavior.

And to that extent, claiming that a lesbian can't be attracted to a trans man is blatant transphobia. Let's face it, if both people are comfortable in the relationship, how are their identities being invalidated? (understandably, if one or both feel invalidated, that's an entirely different situation...) But really, if the only people who have problems with the relationship are people who aren't even involved in it, then there is no real problem!

Quote from: sleepsinallday on June 13, 2016, 06:28:24 PM
To say that a lesbian can't be either romantically or sexually attracted to a man is blatant homophobia. If a straight person called attention to a homosexual desire they might have, no one would automatically claim that their sexuality is invalid. Being a lesbian or straight or a man or a woman is about identity, not behavior.

And to that extent, claiming that a lesbian can't be attracted to a trans man is blatant transphobia. Let's face it, if both people are comfortable in the relationship, how are their identities being invalidated? (understandably, if one or both feel invalidated, that's an entirely different situation...) But really, if the only people who have problems with the relationship are people who aren't even involved in it, then there is no real problem!

Isn't that not even alittle bit controdictary to being trans though? How are you gonna fight to be recognized as a man and then date a lesbian. Just think about that for a second and I am not trying to be rude I just never understood it there are so many bi and straight women who would have no problem dating trans men but you go for a woman who purely likes women. That's the definiton of a lesbian atleast I thought. That makes no type of sense whatsoever I am sorry it just doesn't it to alot of people it seems like it would cause confusion just being honest. Please explain how not a agreeing with a lesbian dating a man is homophobic and please explain how not agreeing with a trans man dating a lesbian is trans phobic because that makes no sense to me at all. I mean its like me preferring mixed girls or latinas, I am not gonna consider the older people in my family racist because they think I should date within my race that's how they were brought up, not saying its right. You see how that sounds?

Quote from: Brandon on June 13, 2016, 06:40:59 PM
Isn't that not even alittle bit controdictary to being trans though? How are you gonna fight to be recognized as a man and then date a lesbian. Just think about that for a second and I am not trying to be rude I just never understood it there are so many bi and straight women who would have no problem dating trans men but you go for a woman who purely likes women. That's the definiton of a lesbian atleast I thought. That makes no type of sense whatsoever I am sorry it just doesn't it to alot of people it seems like it would cause confusion just being honest. Please explain how not a agreeing with a lesbian dating a man is homophobic and please explain how not agreeing with a trans man dating a lesbian is trans phobic because that makes no sense to me at all. I mean its like me preferring mixed girls or latinas, I am not gonna consider the older people in my family races because they think I should date within my racist that's how they were brought up, not saying its right. You see how that sounds?

Allow me to clarify a few things...

A woman is not a lesbian because she only dates women, she is a lesbian because that is how she identifies and no one else is allowed to say that she's not a lesbian (regardless of what she does or whom she dates).

A trans man is not a trans man because of the person he dates, he is a trans man because that is how he identifies and no one else is allowed to say that he's not a man (regardless of what he does or whom he dates).

The homophobia and transphobia come in because these strict definitions would NEVER be applied to cishet people. If a woman wants to call herself straight but fools around with women all of the time, people would be up in arms to defend her if she was attacked for her curiosity. The same goes for cis people...if a cis man and a lesbian hooked up, how would that invalidate the cis man's gender? Do you see the double standard here? Putting yourself in the 'lesbian box' or the 'trans box' should not mean sacrificing your personal freedom to uphold some technical definition!

The problem is that if you say that "X person should date Y person because they are Z," you are policing someone's behavior based on their own identity. Everyone is entitled to dictate their own sexual orientation and their own gender. It could be a phase or an experiment, it could be the next chapter of their lives! You don't get a say in how other people should identify, and you don't get to dictate their behavior because it "makes no sense." If a transgender man is comfortable dating someone who self-identifies as a lesbian (and vice versa), then there is no problem! Relationships are not about making things less confusing for other people.

I don't mean to be rude, I just want to be clear.
(and what does this have to do with race?)

Quote from: sleepsinallday on June 13, 2016, 07:12:39 PM
Allow me to clarify a few things...

A woman is not a lesbian because she only dates women, she is a lesbian because that is how she identifies and no one else is allowed to say that she's not a lesbian (regardless of what she does or whom she dates).

A trans man is not a trans man because of the person he dates, he is a trans man because that is how he identifies and no one else is allowed to say that he's not a man (regardless of what he does or whom he dates).

The homophobia and transphobia come in because these strict definitions would NEVER be applied to cishet people. If a woman wants to call herself straight but fools around with women all of the time, people would be up in arms to defend her if she was attacked for her curiosity. The same goes for cis people...if a cis man and a lesbian hooked up, how would that invalidate the cis man's gender? Do you see the double standard here? Putting yourself in the 'lesbian box' or the 'trans box' should not mean sacrificing your personal freedom to uphold some technical definition!

The problem is that if you say that "X person should date Y person because they are Z," you are policing someone's behavior based on their own identity. Everyone is entitled to dictate their own sexual orientation and their own gender. It could be a phase or an experiment, it could be the next chapter of their lives! You don't get a say in how other people should identify, and you don't get to dictate their behavior because it "makes no sense." If a transgender man is comfortable dating someone who self-identifies as a lesbian (and vice versa), then there is no problem! Relationships are not about making things less confusing for other people.

I don't mean to be rude, I just want to be clear.
(and what does this have to do with race?)

Okay, being a gay is something you are tho not how you identify, you are either gay or you're not simple as that. Why don't you look up the definition of a lesbian and see what it means cuz last I knew it was a woman who likes other women in a romantic or sexual way. You can't call yourself a lesbian and still mess with men and vice versa. I am sorry but that is how I feel and it does cause a ton of confusion and how many of those lesbians would date abio male?? Just because someone simply disagrees with you doesn't mean they are homophobic or transphobic. I brung race into this because ot makes since if you think about it. There a lot of people who don't think you should mix races that was my whole point of that.

Quote from: FTMax on June 13, 2016, 02:37:42 PM
There may be some truscum folks who do that, but it isn't a universal activity. Truscum people believe that dysphoria is necessary if you are going to say that you're transgender, and that if you did not experience any kind of dysphoria yet saying you're trans, that you are appropriating the trans identity. Some are exclusionary towards non-binary or agender folks, but again, not a universal thing. The more understandable term for them would probably be that they are transmedicalists.

Apologies to OP, don't mean to derail. I see this get mentioned very rarely on here, so I think it is important to be very clear about what it actually means.

All good! I didnt know the term so its a lil lesson for me.
And I didnt think my question would start a big discussion to be honest.

Quote from: Brandon on June 13, 2016, 07:47:13 PM
Okay, being a gay is something you are tho not how you identify, you are either gay or you're not simple as that. Why don't you look up the definition of a lesbian and see what it means cuz last I knew it was a woman who likes other women in a romantic or sexual way. You can't call yourself a lesbian and still mess with men and vice versa. I am sorry but that is how I feel and it does cause a ton of confusion and how many of those lesbians would date abio male?? Just because someone simply disagrees with you doesn't mean they are homophobic or transphobic. I brung race into this because ot makes since if you think about it. There a lot of people who don't think you should mix races that was my whole point of that.

So if your even a little bi does that kick you out of the lesbian club? Seems kind of unaccepting. Can't people just be the way they want without having to conform to a label?
What does it matter that a self professed lesbian likes a trans man? Nothing, except for people who must place everyone in their own little box and if you step out you shall be shunned.
So it is written.
Silly

Quote from: StevieC9 on June 14, 2016, 01:34:15 AM
So if your even a little bi does that kick you out of the lesbian club? Seems kind of unaccepting. Can't people just be the way they want without having to conform to a label?
What does it matter that a self professed lesbian likes a trans man? Nothing, except for people who must place everyone in their own little box and if you step out you shall be shunned.
So it is written.
Silly

I have dated bisexual girls they don't bother me, if you read my earlier post you'd know that and labels mean a lot as they are they are to distinguish people that was the whole purpose of them. Sorry I can't get with it. I mean would you date a gay man?

Quote from: Brandon on June 14, 2016, 01:49:58 AM
I have dated bisexual girls they don't bother me, if you read my earlier post you'd know that and labels mean a lot as they are they are to distinguish people that was the whole purpose of them. Sorry I can't get with it. I mean would you date a gay man?

Bisexual is an identity, not a state of being. I label myself as bisexual because I identify with that term for a number of personal reasons, only partially because I am attracted to feminine and masculine people. Have you ever heard of the Kinsey scale? It's a tool used to measure someone's sexual preferences from "strictly heterosexual" to "strictly homosexual." Where someone ranks on the Kinsey scale does not dictate how they are to identify! Not to mention that people's sexualities are subject to change throughout their lifetimes; a label (like gay, pansexual, or bisexual) is used to construct an identity, not declare someone's status for life. Additionally, to claim that I cannot be sexually or romantically attracted to a non-binary person is clear biphobia. I prefer the label bisexual because I don't find myself consistently attracted to non-binary people. That doesn't mean that it never happens. It works the same for gay or straight people who don't consistently feel attraction to certain types of people. People are complicated, I'm sorry if that confuses you.

Please, stop applying your personal experiences/preferences to how you think other people should act. That is on you and has no bearing on how other people can choose to form relationships! It's okay if you can't wrap your head around it, but please stop arguing against people doing what they want with their lives. I, as a woman, might feel invalidated if a man who identifies as gay said he was sexually attracted to me. But sexuality is not monolithic or universal, it exists on a spectrum! How that man identifies suggests that he is only attracted to men, but it does not dictate who he is or whom he can find love with. There could be a number of reasons why he identifies that way even if he finds me attractive, but the entire point is that he feels comfortable with the gay label. You arguing that someone who is gay cannot be sexually attracted to a woman is a blatant attack against his identity and you should be able to recognize how that is homophobic. I may choose to pursue a relationship with a gay man as long as he recognizes and respects the fact that I identify as female (a very similar situation to the op, who's choices are also completely valid).

I am going to stop posting here for now. If you are confused, you should be seeking answers, not arguing against queer people like myself who already have enough ignorance to deal with in our daily lives. If you (or anyone else) have any questions, you can always pm me.

Quote from: FTMax on June 13, 2016, 02:37:42 PM
There may be some truscum folks who do that, but it isn't a universal activity. Truscum people believe that dysphoria is necessary if you are going to say that you're transgender, and that if you did not experience any kind of dysphoria yet saying you're trans, that you are appropriating the trans identity. Some are exclusionary towards non-binary or agender folks, but again, not a universal thing. The more understandable term for them would probably be that they are transmedicalists.

I agree you need dysphoria to be transsexual, otherwise the term loses all meaning, but I would never associate myself with the kind of petty bullying and hurtful statements that truscum is inexorably linked to. Also, focusing over and over on something some jerk did on tumblr once that triggered your dysphoria is the first step to wingnuttery and I refuse to do that to myself. I went back and found the evil posts on the evil blogs and most* of it was one-offs or harmless unless you are the special snowflake you accuse others of being ("A NB person posted their bewbs on fickjatransbods and now I'm having a melt-down because tumblr is supposed to be my manly-man safe space!!!" even though it's a tumblr that is specifically open to NBs. Who's being a tumblerina now? Btw, unfair to ballerinas everywhere, those broads tape it up more than Curt Schilling.)

*-if that gross waste of flesh who taunted ftms with triggery insults meets me on a bus, I will give them an earful, because that was vile

If you've never been on tumblergh*cough*cough* and have no idea what I'm talking about, sorry for derailing the thread and count your lucky stars.

Chase posted a video saying his best friends were truscum and he agrees with everything they says so yeah, there's another face to truscum, but for me it will always be associated with bullying and I don't have to claim that label to acknowledge that GD = GD.

Quote from: StevieC9 on June 14, 2016, 01:34:15 AM
So if your even a little bi does that kick you out of the lesbian club? Seems kind of unaccepting. Can't people just be the way they want without having to conform to a label?
What does it matter that a self professed lesbian likes a trans man? Nothing, except for people who must place everyone in their own little box and if you step out you shall be shunned.
So it is written.
Silly

Quoted for truth

This nonsense goes in cycles. Once upon a time Lesbian was a political label, now it's political but in a different way. There are a lot of notches on that Kinsey scale, why do you have to be a 0/6 to claim an identity and you know what? All it means is did you have these feelings or act on them UP UNTIL NOW.

Quote from: sleepsinallday on June 14, 2016, 08:49:33 AM
Bisexual is an identity, not a state of being. I label myself as bisexual because I identify with that term for a number of personal reasons, only partially because I am attracted to feminine and masculine people. Have you ever heard of the Kinsey scale? It's a tool used to measure someone's sexual preferences from "strictly heterosexual" to "strictly homosexual." Where someone ranks on the Kinsey scale does not dictate how they are to identify! Not to mention that people's sexualities are subject to change throughout their lifetimes; a label (like gay, pansexual, or bisexual) is used to construct an identity, not declare someone's status for life. Additionally, to claim that I cannot be sexually or romantically attracted to a non-binary person is clear biphobia. I prefer the label bisexual because I don't find myself consistently attracted to non-binary people. That doesn't mean that it never happens. It works the same for gay or straight people who don't consistently feel attraction to certain types of people. People are complicated, I'm sorry if that confuses you.

Please, stop applying your personal experiences/preferences to how you think other people should act. That is on you and has no bearing on how other people can choose to form relationships! It's okay if you can't wrap your head around it, but please stop arguing against people doing what they want with their lives. I, as a woman, might feel invalidated if a man who identifies as gay said he was sexually attracted to me. But sexuality is not monolithic or universal, it exists on a spectrum! How that man identifies suggests that he is only attracted to men, but it does not dictate who he is or whom he can find love with. There could be a number of reasons why he identifies that way even if he finds me attractive, but the entire point is that he feels comfortable with the gay label. You arguing that someone who is gay cannot be sexually attracted to a woman is a blatant attack against his identity and you should be able to recognize how that is homophobic. I may choose to pursue a relationship with a gay man as long as he recognizes and respects the fact that I identify as female (a very similar situation to the op, who's choices are also completely valid).

I am going to stop posting here for now. If you are confused, you should be seeking answers, not arguing against queer people like myself who already have enough ignorance to deal with in our daily lives. If you (or anyone else) have any questions, you can always pm me.

It is a free country and I have a right to my oppinion. Second how do you identify as being gay or bi because I thought that was something you were, like when a lot of homosexuals compare being gay to a race, its what you are.  Third, who's arguing cuz no one is, just because I am disagreeing doesn't mean I am arguing. Fourth I am being logical not ignorant and I am not going to seek answers because again it comes off as confusion. Shouldn't you know what you are sexually attracted to? I mean seriously if your bi be happy but in my honest oppinion your sexuality shouldn't shift like that if you are gay or straight.

So like if you only date men and pretty much have only ever have sex with men but are a little bit attracted to women and like to watch het porn, are you gay or bi? It's not so cut in stone, a person could identify either way.

Oh lord, Brandon, I missed where you said this bit: I mean seriously if your bi be happy but in my honest oppinion your sexuality shouldn't shift like that if you are gay or straight.


There are more things on heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio.

Quote from: AnxietyDisord3r on June 14, 2016, 12:51:43 PM
So like if you only date men and pretty much have only ever have sex with men but are a little bit attracted to women and like to watch het porn, are you gay or bi? It's not so cut in stone, a person could identify either way.

Oh lord, Brandon, I missed where you said this bit: I mean seriously if your bi be happy but in my honest oppinion your sexuality shouldn't shift like that if you are gay or straight.


There are more things on heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio.

No actually a lot of people would agree with me. I am sorry but I see it as confusion point blank period. I was brought up a certain way and I am not gonna change it.

What can I say? People are more complicated than you think, and you may be confused, but it doesn't mean that they are.

By the by, an opinion is something that - in theory - you've thought about and can reconsider. What you have doesn't seem to be an opinion so much as a rock hard belief. And sure, you're entitled to it.

Quote from: WorkingOnThomas on June 14, 2016, 03:29:41 PM
What can I say? People are more complicated than you think, and you may be confused, but it doesn't mean that they are.

By the by, an opinion is something that - in theory - you've thought about and can reconsider. What you have doesn't seem to be an opinion so much as a rock hard belief. And sure, you're entitled to it.

I am not confused at all, I get what everyone is saying but it doesn't make since, even some homosexuals would agree with me on this and I have thought about but it still doesn't make since and yes I do have certain beliefs about certain things.