Hello, I know a million topics like this have been made already but I could definitely use some guidance for my particular case. Basically I'm a guy who really wants to look like a girl, but I don't actually identify as one. And I'm not talking about just cross-dressing, I want to have a curvy female body and just generally have people think I'm the cutest/prettiest boy they've seen. I guess the best way to describe myself is that I want to look like a trap (I know that might be an offensive word to a lot of people on here if they're called that by other people but in my case it's actually accurate).

I'm 20 right now, and when I was a kid I used to think of myself as a totally normal boy, always wanting to play with boys' stuff and wanting to be tough and manly, but as time went on I slowly began to realize...screw that, screw all of that. I've undergone a gradual but very noticeable change in how much I care about conforming to gender roles and it's felt so liberating, I used to worry so much about being perceived as gay and it feels so good to not care and to be able to act feminine and fawn over hot fictional male characters (I still have yet to see a real life male whom I'm attracted to, but I mean...come on, why would I want to resist this: http://49.media.tumblr.com/b411dd46bfc4ced79629396ecd047774/tumblr_nwsn5vr0FP1sg9gi2o1_540.gif )

And then I imagine myself wearing something like this: http://image.dhgate.com/0x0/f2/albu/g1/M00/AE/49/rBVaGFYw29uACMdEAAFd9vxRcLs653.jpg and I'm like, oh man.

Er...here's a photo of me for those curious: http://i.imgur.com/mH0Pda6.jpg
A friend of mine has told me I have really feminine facial features which I'm very glad for, but I think a lot of it is due to covering part of my face with hair (I took another photo recently after I accidentally got it cut a bit too short and I look very discernibly male).

...And here's a drawing I did of myself with an outfit of my dreams: http://i.imgur.com/lzONaCz.png

Oh man this post is already getting too long and I haven't even gotten to the main questions, whoops. Okay so basically I've looked a bit into two things so far, HRT and fat transfer. Fat transfer sounds like an absolute dream come true to me because I'd...um...greatly enjoy having a bottom-heavy build with a thin upper/middle half, and the thought of not having to worry so much about eating since I'd gain weight in my ass rather than my midsection would be amazing (I know it wouldn't be exactly 100% perfect and I'd still gain weight elsewhere but still). Of course there's, uh, the whole $10,000 price tag + like 3 months of recovery that would greatly interfere with college/work + the commitment to having a surgery done + the fact that I'd still be in a predominantly male body, sooo, I'm kinda looking more towards HRT at least for now, since it addresses the most important problems (like the fact that my body is still trying to be fundamentally masculine). It sounds like such a nice package that would give so many little benefits that would all add up to making me way more androgynous/feminine as a whole, not just in the shape of my hips and torso.

...But hips and torso are still a huge thing for me. I'm an average weight but I hate how my body looks, girls are so lucky to be able to have even minor excess fat accumulate in the hips region whereas I'm suddenly built like a rectangular table if I go anywhere above the very bottom of what's considered a healthy weight (and I'm in the mid to upper range of that at 6'0" and 165 pounds).

So...um...basically I want to be a cute feminine trap boy that people can look at and not believe they're a guy, who can be really pretty and wear girly clothes and pull it off and possess an hourglass figure with a big butt.

...Yeah.
Again, I don't actually identify as a girl, I just want to be a really girly boy; basically everything short of makeup and SRS. Oh, and possibly breasts; I don't really want breasts because I like the thin top + wide bottom look but I guess they wouldn't really bother me so whatever. I'm fine if I get them, if they come as part of the package in order to get dat booty (and all the subtle feminine touches) then that's totally fine by me.

...Sssooo...onto the actual questions (I'll blame the length of this post on the fact that I didn't make an introduction post or anything like that), of which I'm basically just asking...where do I begin? I'm assuming HRT is the best option for me (and maaaybe sometime in the future I can do the fat transfer thing if I have enough disposable income and a recovery period), but I don't know how to go about starting it. I live in pennsylvania, not really sure how different requirements/insurance coverage is across states. I have a feeling I'm going to have to lie and say I'm fully trans for a lot of this stuff.

Also, how does the whole body shape changing thing work? Will my body get naturally shaped into more of an hourglass figure over the course of the treatment or do I have to first lose the weight and then regain it or what? Can I expect hips to widen at age 20/21?


OHHHHHHHH MAN that is a long post, I always end up going into way more detail than what's probably necessary. Thanks ahead of time to anyone nice enough to read it and try to help me out. Sometimes I feel like I shouldn't have a right to bother with this because I don't have my brain screaming at me every day that my body is wrong like some people do, but I'm still really dissatisfied with it and as long as I don't somehow end up hurting anyone or myself I think that's justification enough to do what I want with it.

Welcome to Susan's Place. I think you should consider a gender therapist first to determine exactly what your feelings are. I suspect you may be non binary and desire a cross dresser life but it's possible that you fit somewhere else in the non binary spectrum. Starting HRT fairly early in therapy shouldn't be a problem as they act slow but often have unexpected results. Many people discover they have major body changes without the use of fat transfers. Even though I am fairly thin, when I remove my clothes, it's clear I have a feminine though not extremely shapely body. In addition, you should be pretty much at your final shape before attempting fat transfer because additional development could result in the transfer not looking the way it was intended to look.

In addition, the non binary is a member of the transgender family as you will see in our WIKI .


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Thanks for the response. Yeah, non-binary is probably accurate; I don't wanna think of myself as a cross-dresser because I wanna go a step beyond that and the clothing isn't as important as my innate body look and mannerisms. I've just never really cared much about labels so I just default to "he" since it's what I was born as, but I don't think I would care very much if someone were to call me he, she, or it. ("It" would be amusing, like, "Look at that creature.")

I'm really not thrilled at the prospect of therapy though, is it necessary? I feel like I have a pretty firm grasp on what I want to be, and if it's a question of "HRT or no HRT" I can't see much room to doubt my answer. I'm just not sure how the whole process is to be started; I think wikipedia listed several different types of HRT drugs with potentially varying results, is it better to go with certain ones over others? Do you have control over which ones or do you just have to take what's prescribed to you, or does that even matter?

Also, I don't blame you for missing one of my questions in that gigantic posts, but how exactly does fat redistribution work? Do I have to lose weight and then regain it before it'll go to my hips or will it just kinda naturally happen?

Therapy would be a good idea with a gender therapist to establish a base line and give you a second opinion on your viewpoint. It shouldn't require a large number of visits and often is required to connect with a good endo or for insurance reasons.

On this site, we use cross dresser to apply to anybody who is comfortable with their original identity but wears the clothes of the opposite gender for anywhere between a short time to full time. We have a number of members who have decided against surgery for their own reasons so you are in good company here. I really think we need to coin a new term like cross living that is more descriptive.

The type of medication you will receive will depend on your goals, your physical health and to some degree the treatment plan the doctor has. Blockers vary between countries and estrogen is decided by what works best for you. I have had good results with pills where others are happy with injections, patches, gels and implants. The decision will be made between you and your doctor.

Estrogen will move fat without any special action of your own. I was off HRT for 10 years due to some wrong information. This caused me to lose feminine fat and move it to my belly. I am back on HRT and have lost 30 pounds of excessive weight. While on a diet, HRT has moved fat from my belly to my legs, breast and face. Also HRT may cause you to gain weight so if you are under weigh, that may help shape your body but be careful how much you gain because it may not end up  where you want it.

Well, I don't think it's totally accurate to say I'm comfortable with my original identity; I'm comfortable with the word "he" as well as my parts, and that's about as far as it goes. I hate pretty much everything else that has anything to do with masculinity. I don't know, I really don't care too much about labels, but cross dresser just doesn't really feel accurate when I'm willing to go as far as HRT.

So I guess I should just start looking for gender therapists in my area (please let me know if there's a better way than googling)? Is there a risk that the people treating me might not end up giving me the treatment that's right for me? I ask because I don't have the best faith with doctors in general where I live. I mean, nothing terrible has happened, but the fact that I was just recently prescribed something I'm allergic to by someone whom I told I was allergic to it makes me wary especially for something this specific and relatively fringe.

In other news I have yet to actually tell anyone in my family about this (other than telling my sister I wanna wear pretty dress coats which she supported) so I'm probably gonna have to do that soon. I have no idea how my mom will react; she's an incredibly average middle-aged christian conservative woman but definitely not one to be hateful of anyone even if she perceives their lifestyles as wrong. This is probably going to come as a huge shock to her though, so I suspect it'll take her a while to be convinced I'm not just confused about myself.

EDIT: Oh also is there some sort of guide for MTFs trying to buy clothing? These measurements are confusing me and I'm really hoping I'm doing something wrong with my sleeve length, otherwise this coat isn't gonna come close to my wrists.

We have a fashion section on the site that should be full of information on buying feminine clothing and converting sizes. The problem is not all manufactures size the same way so it's best to buy in person or order with somebody who has a good return policy. Often people will buy off the second hand racks because stuff can be really cheap and what doesn't fit gets donated again. This is a link to the beauty section which should help you develop your desired image.

As for a therapist, our Links Section lists a number of them and if you locate your local LGBT center you may find additional therapist in your area.

Something to remember when you are receiving treatment and that is this is the only condition that is self diagnosed and you have the right to fire any doctor if you feel they are not given you  proper treatment There are bad doctors out there and a few of the site members have encountered them but there are many good doctors who have your best interest at heart. If you question a doctors treatment of you, feel free to come here and ask about it.

Welcome aboard mk400.  You gave us a great introduction and I think you will be able to realize many of your dreams and wishes.  I appreciate that people of your generation have much less attachment to labels and even the term non binary is inadequate for many.  More people now find a pathway to being their most genuine and honest self with a  presentation that matches.  Nothing wrong with being a hybrid of sorts

There have been a number of dramatic changes over the last 5-10 years with many more of us "coming out" and, with that increased visibility, we are also seeing political responses.  It was once difficult or near impossible to find experienced and legitimate therapists and medial care.  The guidelines and accessibility have changed and some can also find treatment (HRT) by going to clinics that offer informed consent.  Insurance and health care are more available but so is the backlash like nonsense bathroom and religious discrimination bills.

One fav expression here is YMMV (your mileage may vary) with some of us experiencing more changes or less than anticipated.  One good reason for therapy is a discussion of the very real emotional and perspective changes you could experience on HRT and coming out to family.  It doesn't just impact how you look!  Some of us get great secondary sexual characteristic (boobs and butt) changes and some not much or not enough.  Some will consider surgical augmentation too.  At some point these changes are rather irreversible and have profound consequences.  Personally, I love my journey and the changes after almost 4 years.

Good luck to you.  I applaud those like you who take these steps at an early age when you can live the majority of your life as your true self.   

Thanks! I'll look around through some of those links. Also, wait, does it actually affect your emotions that much? I've seen some people on here saying that the emotional changes were purely from being more comfortable with themselves and such. I'm not a particularly emotional person to begin with; I see people pouring their hearts out into posts and thanking everyone for all the love and support they're receiving on their wonderful journey to finding their true selves but I'm just kinda like "damn I wish I had me some estrogen" and I'm perfectly fine with that (not that I'm dissing those people or anything).

Also, I just told my mom. She didn't seem to know how to feel about it, which was expected; she definitely wasn't thrilled, but the worst she really said was "make sure you think for a long time about this." To be fair I only recently started seriously considering hormone therapy, but I might end up waiting until summer when I'll have time for a job to pay for any expenses myself...though I feel like the sooner I get this started the better my results will be. How long does it typically take between the first gender therapy session before you're able to start getting hormones?

She told me she needed a coffee and time to digest everything I said. I can only assume her face in the other room right now more or less matches this:



Definitely a far cry from "I fully support whatever decision you make" but it could've been much worse and I'm not bothered. As I said, she's not a hateful or angry person at all.

Time to start HRT can be all over the place. In the United States the wait can be as short as a few weeks where as in the UK it can be a couple of years in some places.

I found this place which is reasonably close to where I live: http://www.alderhealth.org/hrt/

Will try to contact them with questions such as how long it would take to actually begin it, etc. Also, thanks a lot for the replies so far.

Okay, I looked through the beauty section but I am still so confused.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-New-Women-Double-Breasted-Trench-Winter-Coat-Lady-Peacoat-Long-Dress-Jacket-/271961525192?var=&hash=item3f522b8bc8

The sizes are about halfway down the page, but I...okay like, I know how to measure my bust and waist, but what about length and sleeve length? I've seen some places say for sleeves you're meant to measure from your shoulder straight down to your wrist, and other places that say you're supposed to start at the back of your neck and wrap it around your bent elbow down to your wrist...and I sincerely hope I'm not supposed to do that second one for this because then my sleeve length would be like around 88 cm when the XXL size of this is only 66 cm. Otherwise my sleeve length would be about 68 cm which sounds more a BIT more reasonable, but still...

...My bust and waist are 90 cm and 88 cm (you can probably see why I'm not happy with my body right now). But I mean, that will presumably change after hormone therapy, so I probably shouldn't base the size 100% off of that, so...uh...

...Does anyone have any suggestion based on my measurements? Once again that's 6'0", 90 cm bust, 88 cm waist (for now), and about 68 cm sleeve (unless it's actually 88). And the measurements for that coat are:

QuoteAsian M:  Bust: 84-88cm  Length: 89cm  Sleeve: 63cm  Waist: 70-74cm
Asian L:  Bust: 88-92cm  Length: 90cm  Sleeve: 64cm  Waist: 74-78cm
Asian XL: Bust: 92-96cm  Length: 91cm  Sleeve: 65cm  Waist: 78-82cm
Asian XXL:Bust: 96-100cm Length: 92cm  Sleeve: 66cm  Waist: 82-88cm
(Note: The Length is including the black veil hem)

So...uh...
...Would a large sound like it's probably a safe bet, or maybe an XL, or...?

And I don't even know how to interpret the "length"; I dunno if that means from shoulder to bottom of skirt, or top of collar to bottom of skirt, or what, but either way it barely gets any longer no matter the size, and I'm most worried about it being too short...damn my 6 feet of height, I know there's tons of short guys who would gladly trade their height with me if they could. Do you think this will even be long enough for me?

This is being delivered from China, so...I'd rather not have to return it. I don't plan to wear it in public for a while; I may not even bother with female clothes until I feel the hormones have kicked in enough to let me pull it off (it'd be wise as far as making sure they fit my body anyway), but I really really wanna try this on anyway just to see what I'd look like in it and have ever since I saw it months ago.

Would any kind soul please elucidate me on which size I'm likely to need for this?

I am 5'14" which is just a little taller than you and I would not even consider ordering that coat. The reason is because we are longer from our shoulder to our waist making just about anything a little short by about 3 inches and even more on dresses. When I am buying for myself, I always make sure it indicates tall sizes. I have had a few thing that were purchased by other in standard sizes and I have to be careful when I wear them. I would suggest shopping at a regular tall shop like Long Tall Sally's where you know that there will be enough length to fit you. Many others stores carry tall sizes with regular clothes but always check the size before ordering.

Awww...are you sure? I really really wanted that, it looked so cute and it's only $23...if there's even a chance that it'll be at least close enough to being the right size for me I'd really like to buy it. I mean, obviously thanks for the heads up, but do you think there's still a chance, especially if I get a larger size? You said you're 2 inches taller than me and things are 3 inches too short for you, so...maybe 1 inch too short wouldn't look that bad??? I dunno, it's wishful thinking but it's just so cuuute. I'll make sure to keep an eye out and try to find things designed for tall women, though.

At $23 it may be worth the risk and if it doesn't fit, you can donate it and somebody else will be happy with it. I suspect the size difference would be at least 2 inches and overall length close to 4 inches. Unfortunately often the only way to be sure about fit is to try it and you will make a few mistakes early on until you learn your body. When I first started ordering clothing, I ordered from JC Penny and they had a tall section that went up to 5'11". It sort of fit but it could have used a bit more length. After that, I connected with a tall shop and strange as it may sound, some of that stuff was a bit big on me. Because I was able to try it on, I didn't leave the store with it.

Alright, I think I'm just gonna go for it once I'm able to (there has been some serious stupidity going on with my card company, to the point where it's not showing a $60 credit I put onto it and in turn proceeded to tell me I had a balance of -$11 at one point, on a debit card that doesn't let you spend funds you don't have, so I'm trying to resolve that).

But what size do you think the safest bet is? I mean, the largest (XXL) is also the longest, but it's only 3 centimeters longer than the shortest, and the bust size at XXL goes all the way up to 96-100 cm when I'm only a 90cm, but then again I might fill out there after HRT, but then again my waist should get thinner after HRT which could make XXL too wide in that area for me...god, as much as I hate men's fashion at least it had the simplicity of just "buy t-shirt, throw on t-shirt, don't care if it fits or not because nothing ever conforms to figure anyway." (not that I don't want my clothes to conform to my figure)

Dresses are the most difficult thing to buy because they have three sizes, bust, hips and waist. The solution to the problem is to pick the most difficult thing to fit and buy that size. If you have a large bust you buy for that even if the hips and waist will have extra fabric. Most of the time the extra material isn't much of a problem and if you want to look sharp, the garment can be taken in. It's not possible to add fabric so if something is on the small size so you are stuck with it. You may be wearing breast forms soon so it might be best to go for the XXL in preparation for future growth.

In the early stages is is difficult but over time you will learn where stuff fits and where the sizing is non standard. I am a 16 tall top and may now be a 14 tall bottom and if I buy from a known manufacture, it's pretty sure to fit.

Quote from: mk400 on September 04, 2016, 06:16:17 PM
Thanks! I'll look around through some of those links. Also, wait, does it actually affect your emotions that much? I've seen some people on here saying that the emotional changes were purely from being more comfortable with themselves and such. I'm not a particularly emotional person to begin with; I see people pouring their hearts out into posts and thanking everyone for all the love and support they're receiving on their wonderful journey to finding their true selves but I'm just kinda like "damn I wish I had me some estrogen" and I'm perfectly fine with that (not that I'm dissing those people or anything).

Also, I just told my mom. She didn't seem to know how to feel about it, which was expected; she definitely wasn't thrilled, but the worst she really said was "make sure you think for a long time about this." To be fair I only recently started seriously considering hormone therapy, but I might end up waiting until summer when I'll have time for a job to pay for any expenses myself...though I feel like the sooner I get this started the better my results will be. How long does it typically take between the first gender therapy session before you're able to start getting hormones?

She told me she needed a coffee and time to digest everything I said. I can only assume her face in the other room right now more or less matches this:



Definitely a far cry from "I fully support whatever decision you make" but it could've been much worse and I'm not bothered. As I said, she's not a hateful or angry person at all.

Welcome to the site.
You sound really grounded for all the things you have questions about.
I can honestly say that I am not a person who got emotional much(except angry). I could not cry for years. Now i have become far more in touch with it all.

Some of it may come from relief. However, I am pretty sure at this point that much has to do with HRT.

With warmth,

Joanna

PS Are you sure she didn't look more like this(no offense about the glass-just a stock accessory of hers, right?)

Ahah, I actually posted that because I've seen you in other threads with that avatar and figure'd you'd appreciate that image if you saw this thread. Miss Lalonde is great, are you basing your appearance off of her or did you just pick that avatar because she's cool looking?

Anyway I think I may go with XL since my sister would be an L under asian sizing and she said she'd gladly take it if it doesn't fit me. I'm hoping my waist and bust will be closer to XL than XXL after hrt, and it's only a 1 cm length difference. If I can't fit my waist into it at first, it'll be something to work towards (6 cm sounds pretty reasonable especially with hrt though).

I'm not sure what you mean by wearing breast forms though, are you talking about fake breasts to attach to my chest? Because I don't plan on that, I'm fine with and would even somewhat prefer being flat chested (like I said, it's hips and butt that I care about). As for growth, well...I dunno. But XL feels about right to me, I think I'd rather have a snug bust area than a loose waist area.

Breast forms are inserts (fake breasts, yes). 

The only issue with getting things that fit length wise is that afab, on the whole, have  different proportions than that the amab. So to get the length to work, often the waist might fit but the hips and the chest will be too large. I would suggest the XL as well.

I have chosen Mom Lalonde as I am closer to her age. Although I do think she is cool looking. If I were to use the character most associated to me and my tendencies I would be "...a little too teal for them."

I just read something that said you can take anti-androgens without estrogen for a more androgynous look. Hm...

Does anyone know what sorts of effects that'd have? I'm pretty sure estrogen is probably the way to go, my only worry is seeming like a weirdo if I end up having obvious male qualities like name/voice/choice of bathroom (that's a tricky one considering I don't feel like I really identify with either) while sporting chest melons. It's definitely worth it to me for the body curves and everything else that comes with estrogen but I just wanna make sure I'm exploring all my options, of course I'll ask the therapist/doctor about it as well whenever I see them but I was wondering if anyone here knew anything about it.