Hello.. I am FTM and have been married to a cis female that is straight for almost 3 years. We are both Christians. I know...I know... the Bible says that marriage is only between one man and one woman...in my eyes I'm no less of a man than any other cis male. Our sex life was pretty good but out of nowhere my wife became uncomfortable with having sex with me because of the anatomy that I was mistakenly born with! This has made me very depressed and wanting out of this marriage! I am barely in my late 20's!  I really just want her to see me for the man that I am! I don't see why there is an issue now!! What should I do? Has anybody been in a similar situation where your significant other didn't want to have sex with you?

I dunno how well I can relate to the Christian stuff, since I got out of Christianity over a decade ago and now oscillate between Deist, Agnostic, and Atheist, but I'll try to talk about this.  As a polyamorous pansexual, I have multiple boyfriends, and one of them is an exclusively homosexual man.  We started dating well before I realized I had gender dysphoria / euphoria, and he was always a bit upset that I never wanted to penetrate him and always wanted to platy these very effeminate roles in bed.  I even have him calling me "princess" as a pet name.  I'm really not sure how we're going to recognize my continuing transition, but he hasn't left yet, though he lives in another city so we don't see much of each other right now: I've told him he needs to start coming down here more because he might hit a point soon where he doesn't like my body any more and we go back to just being friends.

I also have a girl that I've known for a few years who I had sex with for the first time a month ago.  I'd actually call it my first lesbian experience, because I haven't had sex with a woman since the girl I almost married 2 or 3 years ago.  She said it was awkward, but stressed that she really enjoyed the feminine nature of it: most guys aren't attentive to the same things I am, and can't really understand what women actually want.  I, on the other hand, play both sides of the field, so I can do what I like done to me and everyone has a good time. (Well, I more enjoy watching her have a good time)  She REALLY liked the parts where I pretended I had a vagina and tried to do things like frotting with her. That's my experience with women in a nutshell.

What have you done to masculinize your body?  It's understandable for a cis-hetero female to be bothered by your female genitals, but you might be able to alleviate that if you look like, say, Buck Angel.  (I mean seriously, have you seen the guy?  I bet he could do some very enjoyable things to me with those muscles...)  Have you tried a strap-on or anything like that?  Maybe you haven't started HRT?  Straight women like men, but you don't necessarily need the full package to register as "male". (once again, Buck Angel)

Welcome to the site.

Sexuality and attraction are all just so weird. To a degree they do seem to shift.

Have been in therapy as part of your transition. Perhaps you should try couples therapy or a couples sexuality therapy.

Kind of beyond my depth. I hope you find what you are looking for.

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Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.

With warmth,

Joanna

That's really sad...my experience with the Christian faith is that the way they see you you're still biologically female, and you're just putting clothes on, putting things on to be a man to cover that up that you really are a woman. It's makes me sick to hear those words and repeat them but growing up in a Christian home has taught me that. Perhaps your wife is starting to second guess the marriage because of her religious values being reintroduced to her and she feels as if her marriage is inherently wrong.

Outside of sex, if you look male then there isnt any reason why anyone should question you are outside of the relationship, within the relationship the only boundary is that she knows your birth sex and that might somehow suddenly make her question things.

Try to open up a conversation with her on it instead of shying away and thinking of breaking it off first thing, try to reevaluate what most people think and see and let them know you were made a man even if your parts don't orient that way, as is quite common in the natural world for anomalies to take place even if not visible to the naked eye.

I always revert to...

Does God make Mistakes?

OK, yes, "The devil made me do it" is the standard comeback. My wife and I are spiritual people. (Full disclosure, raised Irish/Orthodox Catholic, Any wonder I'm... ). My wife is MTF, Me, Always thought she was a totally amazing person. Always respected her "Limits".

A bit of projection warning.... I know all too well how Internalized Transphobia eats away at your soul. The Guilt and especially the Shame of being trans all your life I think is impossible to totally overcome. My therapist is always telling me how "Evolved" I am. Like Spock, my logical self and emotional self are still separated and often at war. Luckily, my "evolved" self sees that. It is not an easy thing to see.

For a good 7 years now I've worked hard at trying to loose the SHAME of being trans. It must be a rare (non-trans) therapist that can relate. When I get scared, I close ranks fall back into into a "Safe" way of dealing with the world at large.

These days I call it "Seeing the Sad Old Man in the Mirror"; which I also do. Which is also my clue, No, the baseball bat of reality of how Shame (aka the Devil SCREAMING into one ear is getting more attention then the angel always whispering into the other "it's OK" ) is winning out over the reality of the JOY I discovered in trying to learn what it is really like to be just be the real me,  vs the "Me" I thought the world expected me to be.

Faith_love. I am an 33 year old FTM transman who is also a Christian. My wife and I have been married for a little over three years,and are going through the exact same thing. But my wife is battling in her faith and being with a transgendered male. I'm devastated by this because like you said you don't see yourself any less than a Cis male. We are seeking counseling with a MFT who specializes in LGBT community. We did first go to our pastor because our faith is extremely important to us,but I know if I opened up about who I was they might in fact interfere and pull her farther away from me. When we first started dating she had the same issue but than we feel in love and she would tell me I'm perfect the way I am, but now she is battling her own issues again with it. Hoping to just get a little support and just vent.

Quote from: Unitedinlove on November 12, 2016, 02:37:10 AM
Faith_love. I am an 33 year old FTM transman who is also a Christian. My wife and I have been married for a little over three years,and are going through the exact same thing. But my wife is battling in her faith and being with a transgendered male. I'm devastated by this because like you said you don't see yourself any less than a Cis male. We are seeking counseling with a MFT who specializes in LGBT community. We did first go to our pastor because our faith is extremely important to us,but I know if I opened up about who I was they might in fact interfere and pull her farther away from me. When we first started dating she had the same issue but than we feel in love and she would tell me I'm perfect the way I am, but now she is battling her own issues again with it. Hoping to just get a little support and just vent.

Hi Unitedinlove

Welcome to Susan's. I hope you enjoy your time here.

Normally we would see your first post a bit sooner but it got buried inside this thread.

Feel free to make an introductory post here if you want

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?board=8.0 . 

There are many area's of support here so feel free to have a bit of a look around


Welcome and enjoy

Regards

Liz

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I find it acceptable to be Christian, and not attend church, especially when many in the church are hypocrites that go for the purpose of judging others.
I am a MTF trans woman, married to a cis man. Most of the people I know either do not attend church, or drive for over an hour to attend, just because of how people act in church.
It is a shame, but it is a reality that will only get worse when Trump enters into his presidency.

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Quote from: Faith_love on October 26, 2016, 01:05:10 AM
I know...I know... the Bible says that marriage is only between one man and one woman

I'm not a Bible scholar but I would be interested in knowing the chapter and verse reference where the Bible says that? Perhaps you are thinking of the now defunct Defense of Marriage Act.
I do know that the Old Testament is chock-o-block full of cases where marriage is between one man and one large group of women tho. (as in having many wives?). I think that's called polygamy and in some situations polyamory and it's illegal in most states.

Quote from: Faith_love on October 26, 2016, 01:05:10 AM
Hello.. I am FTM and have been married to a cis female that is straight for almost 3 years. We are both Christians. I know...I know... the Bible says that marriage is only between one man and one woman...in my eyes I'm no less of a man than any other cis male. Our sex life was pretty good but out of nowhere my wife became uncomfortable with having sex with me because of the anatomy that I was mistakenly born with! This has made me very depressed and wanting out of this marriage! I am barely in my late 20's!  I really just want her to see me for the man that I am! I don't see why there is an issue now!! What should I do? Has anybody been in a similar situation where your significant other didn't want to have sex with you?

First of all, the bible doesn't say that marriage is between one man and one woman. You owe to yourself as a Christian to actually read the Bible from the beginning. The arrangements get pretty creative. And then there's David and Jonathan: "surpassing the love of women".

Now, Jesus did go on a rant about divorce, but the same Christians spouting this "one man, one woman" stuff who have apparently never read their Bible don't seem to have a problem with divorce. Huh.

Unless you're a Dispensationalist who thinks only the Epistles apply to modern life. You should know that historians think only a few of them are authentic and even the ones they think are authentic have had later interpolations added. The letters of Paul have a source problem in that they were produced by Marcion who was trying to win an ecclesiastical argument with some other bishops at the time. Anyhoo, the bit where Paul says women need to sit down and shut up in church? Appears to have been squeezed in there by a later editor.

As for your relationship, I had a friend (who has since passed away, sadly) who had really low self esteem and was in a relationship with a younger guy who decided to join an Assemblies of God church that pressured him to say he wasn't gay any more. So their physical love was evil but it was okay for my friend to still pay all his bills and his college fees. My friend couldn't deal with it after a while so he quietly applied for work in another city and moved in one day without telling anyone and got a dog. But I guess his ex relented because they got back together (!) These sorts of conflicts between religion and a relationship can tear a marriage apart. You can't compete with God and if I were you I wouldn't even try. If you're going to concede the religious argument to her (did you know Hebrew has special pronouns for intersex people? that Isaiah says there is a special place in heaven for men with "damaged" genitals and women who can't have babies?) I don't see how your marriage moves forward.

It's also possible she's having some other problem with you or the relationship but using religion as a deflection so she doesn't have to talk about it.

You're both young and dare I say it pretty immature. It's tough to be married at that age. I'm sorry you're going through this and I'm sorry your wife has decided all of a sudden that you're less of a man. That must feel very invalidating.

Since the ancient Babylonian Sumerian writings tell the same stories the Bible does, using almost identical names for the characters in the stories, yet it was written 2000 years BEFORE the Bible was written, told from the point of view of aliens who used their own DNA mixed with ape man humans to make modern men intelligent enough to work in their gold mines, but too stupid to question their situation, no reason to take the Bible very seriously. In fact, these gods required blood constantly, sacrifices, the giving up of children to prove loyalty, etc. VERY Old Testament.
See link: http://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-folklore/origins-human-beings-according-ancient-sumerian-texts-0065

Also the actual Bible has many more crazy things beside outlawing homosexuality; death by stoning could be over anything..even carrying something heavy or walking too far on Saturday, children talking back to parents, eating leavened bread during Passover, lying about virginity, perjury, and on and on. Daughters could be sold into slavery, men could have multiple wives, etc.
Here's a link to the list of Old Testament laws that demand the death penalty

http://gphhawkinsrationalistsociety.weebly.com/laws-of-the-old-testament-which-demand-the-death-penalty.html

If these Sumerian "gods" are the template for the Bible, that matches their crazy requirements, their love of killing, and of war. They also "helped" their subjects in war with death rays, had bright, glowing flying machines, etc..thus doing the things ascribed to the Bible god.

I suppose if those Sumerian writings are true-that humans were created to have the minds of slaves, that would explain why most people seem to need to worship a god, and turn their lives over to others.

That's one thing about most Christians. They look to the new testament for love and compassion, while looking to the old for reasons to hate. Such hypocrisy is why I find myself disassociating myself from the extremist right.

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The whole Soddom and Grimora?

Look at it from an anthropological view point. Those cities were major military and economic powers that were aligned with each other. Both of them were an eminent threat to the Judian state. Why do you thing the Jewish profits writing the Old Testament were so critical of them, the Philistines and other city states of the age. Anything these people did were written about as being evil. So Soddom and Grimora were built on the shores of the Dead Sea because of the salt trade. The area has always been a hot bed for volcanic activity and earthquakes. Of course they were both destroyed at the same time and the Jewish profits celebrated the destruction of their enemies and said God did it. So because the Greek, Assyrian, Babalonian, and others were the "evil" ones according to the Ancient Judians we now have a repressive society.

I am on the opposite side of the spectrum where I feel the need to be female.  My wife is not understanding and says she loves me but doesn't accept it.  She says I should have figured this out 12 years ago.  I'm worried about losing my family.  I'm a Christian and this took me a long time to figure out but it all makes sense looking backward and forward.  My wife says no matter what I'll always be a man.  I let old thinking keep me back so long.  Since Jesus came for all sin, and some may classify this as so but I do not then why do people hate so much.   I think it has to do with hidden feelings about who or what they might be or are.  I have felt out of place for so long and now it's starting to make sense. 


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The superseding version of the Bible. Also called the New Testament says. "Love thy neighbor as thy self". and to "love thy God with all thy heart" The next line cements it for me... There is no greater commandment than these.

Yes I agree.   In doing so I believe God loves us no matter what and that we should love one another as He did and still does. 


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The Old Testament shows all as breakers of the law and gives a history account til His Sons birth.  The New Testament shows us Gods grace mercy understanding and compassion for the people. The Old Testament is also there to teach us about relationships. 


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