Me too.

Individual men and women are fine, and so are mixed-gender groups. But when men gather in one corner to do male stuff and women in the opposite corner to do female stuff, it's time for me to feel excluded and out of place.

  Nfr

Quote from: Seshatneferw on January 27, 2008, 06:48:16 AM
Individual men and women are fine, and so are mixed-gender groups. But when men gather in one corner to do male stuff and women in the opposite corner to do female stuff, it's time for me to feel excluded and out of place.

Oh, I never feel excluded when the genders go into their respective huddles! I usually have a genuine interest in what each group is doing whether decorating cupcakes or repairing a lawn mower. I enjoy participating and feel equally at home in the kitchen or the tool shed. (The guys do get edgy at times when a female joins their circle though.) I appreciate practical and purposeful endeavors and greatly enjoy pleasant conversation in both groups. What I don't have an interest in is six-pack body building or the newest nail polish fashions and the ilk... you know, the femme and macho gender stuff.  Gender, in this sense, is area where I do not fit in.

-Emerald 

Well, yes, excluded is too strong a word. Mostly it's simply that when the genders separate they are bound to eventually drift towards more extremely gendered topics. At that point it becomes a matter of choosing between six-pack body building and the newest nail polish (or the equivalent), which means I'm going to feel out of place.

  Nfr

Quote from: Seshatneferw on January 27, 2008, 06:48:16 AM
Me too.

Individual men and women are fine, and so are mixed-gender groups. But when men gather in one corner to do male stuff and women in the opposite corner to do female stuff, it's time for me to feel excluded and out of place.

  Nfr

That is how I felt all throughout childhood, but then, and in my teen years, I just figured that it was due to my introverted nature, but I did for a long time really want to be a part of the guy's group because what they talked about was infinitely more interesting to me than the giggling girls that seemed pretty alien to me, but I knew that to the guys I'd just be "that girl" and to the girls I was also "that girl". So instead of trying to squeeze into one exclusive gender group or another I just made a few close friends and kept with them exclusively, rarely ever mixing in, except later on in high school.

I used to think maybe I should have been born male because of how I naturally gravitated to them in social settings, but I found this to be untrue, and since I always knew I wasn't ever going to fit in with most of the females, when I found out what androgyne was, the light-bulb clicked and has never flickered since.

My first clue was that I've never been treated as a woman or a man by women or men.  I was always something different.  This was brought to my attention last night.  I went to a concert and got caught between two groups of moshers.  I was the only 'girl' not getting pushed around because I was pushing back and standing my ground while trying to help my friend keep people off of her.  I felt very solitary and different in that crowd.  Guys will (sometimes) look out for girls and try not to hit them.  I was getting hit as hard as the guys.  It was weird and yet completely normal for me.  I'm just there and no one quite knows what to make of me.

One big thing for me is that I don't understand the differences between men and women other than knowing that they are there.  I relate better to men than women which made me think I was FtM for a bit, but I had no desire to change my body.  I like men and I want to have kids and a "normal" family life (what I consider normal is probably a little off, but hey, it works for me), so in that sense a female body is very practical in my situation.

I consider myself pregendered because I view gender much the way children do.  My mind just didn't mature the same way my peers' minds did, I suppose.  "Like a 12 year old who has learned to enjoy sex."  Well said. 

I prefer to think of us androgynes as evolved.  It's the binaries who need to catch up.

I thought I was a woman because I didn't know there was an alternative to Male.

But, thank God, I read some books.  I know for a fact now that my teen yearnings to be female or pretty was my unconscious trying to tell me that my body was going the wrong way.  Sometimes I feel very feminine, but I never feel masculine even though I tried to fake it around others.


The knowledge that one is neither male or female or both is an unusual one.  How do you know such a thing?  Only by knowing it, but how can we know it?  It is a sometimes confusing state.  I don't worry about how do I know it so much anymore.  I am not a man.  I do know this.  I am not a woman.  I do know this.  Whatever I truly am may always remain nameless.

I've come to realize there are no fringe benefits being a fringe gendered person.  I really wish there were others I could mix with at least on occasion.  Sometimes, I still feel alone.  Sometimes, I feel the universe runs through me and I don't feel alone.

Today, I feel alone.

Quote from: Rebis on February 02, 2008, 05:07:30 PM
Today, I feel alone.

Me too.  Today was not a great day.

Quote from: Rebis on February 02, 2008, 05:07:30 PM

The knowledge that one is neither male or female or both is an unusual one.  How do you know such a thing?  Only by knowing it, but how can we know it?  It is a sometimes confusing state.  I don't worry about how do I know it so much anymore.  I am not a man.  I do know this.  I am not a woman.  I do know this.  Whatever I truly am may always remain nameless.

I've come to realize there are no fringe benefits being a fringe gendered person.  I really wish there were others I could mix with at least on occasion.  Sometimes, I still feel alone.  Sometimes, I feel the universe runs through me and I don't feel alone.

Today, I feel alone.

I often feel alone with this too. Good question, how do we know... especially given the fact that who we are isn't a readily understood option within trans-land. With as much soul searching as I've done to come to this current understanding of myself, it sometimes seems as though an aspect of being androgyne is being permanently afloat in a universe of uncertainty. After all, there is no "transition" to become androgyne, and no set of goals to be met, unlike what our TS sisters/brothers can do. 

The only fringe benefits I can think of are those 60s era jackets with the fringe on them... and I don't think I want to wear one of those. 

Z

We should all gather and be alone together.

We should build a little androgyne town for ourselves.

Quote from: Jaimey on February 02, 2008, 03:41:31 PM
  I relate better to men than women which made me think I was FtM for a bit, but I had no desire to change my body.  I like men and I want to have kids and a "normal" family life (what I consider normal is probably a little off, but hey, it works for me), so in that sense a female body is very practical in my situation.

I consider myself pregendered because I view gender much the way children do.  .

Swap the F's and the M's and I'm there.

We may be alone in our little pockets, but we are not alone. We can practically finish each other's sentences.
I'd like an andro town, I'd like to be the landlord of the pub/saloon, a little Western town for ourselves.

WANTED: The Manly Boys; For Siding With One Of The Old Binaries.

Quote from: Rebis on February 03, 2008, 02:48:40 PM

We should all gather and be alone together.

Maybe we should have some androgyne gatherings... east coast (I'll help organize that one), west coast, England... Mars...

Quote from: Jaimey on February 03, 2008, 03:19:07 PM
We should build a little androgyne town for ourselves.

I say we just convert the towns we already live in... hehe  >

y2g

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 03, 2008, 04:07:45 PM
We may be alone in our little pockets, but we are not alone. We can practically finish each other's sentences.

That's true.  It's nice to have people who understand. 

I can be the town baker.  I'll make androgynous cakes and pies and candies so we can all get androgynously fat.  >

I could either be some kind of town clerk, or else, sleep in peoples' garages and do odd jobs.  Plus wear a poncho.

I almost did the same as Pica Pica.

As soon as I understood gender I new I was not "right". After a ton of searching and trying on many, many  hats MtF fit the best. I knew it was not a 100% match, but was far better than what I was. I was settled on it and started looking for more and more information as it is not something to be taken lightly. I was looking up androgyne as temporary stop on my way as I was not ready, willing or able to really even start to transition. I was almost to the point of letting my mom know as she would probably take it best.

I always thought I hated androgenous looks. After my discovery, I realized it was not that I hated it. I hated that it applied to me on some level and it scared me, maybe a bit jealous as well. That was a hell of a thing to find out.

After reading here the past few days I started letting down my guard on mannerisms and thoughts. While reading this site last night and watching a movie, one recommended on here I might add (The Lake House), I lost it. Just broke down, my male side fought it. I will give it credit, it put up a hell of a fight.

How do I know I found myself?

When I found what I truly was, it was like going from black and white to color at the flick of a switch. I do not mean "oh, that is what I am", I mean it rocked me to the core. The whole thing has hit me so hard that I have been trying to document my whole life and while doing so re-evaluate everything. All the problems in my life suddenly became clear, even my sexual desires which were fuzzy on some things, suddenly I can see what they are. I even look at porn differently now, things I sort of liked or were unsure of have changed.


It was/is really strange to be honest.

My light switch was a trio of songs on an MP3 player whilst walking my dog.
(The songs were...
                      I can't remember the first one...
                      Freak Show - Gothic Archies
                      Here Comes the Summer -Undertones
They make no sense as to why I clicked to them.)


Now the game is to see what that switch means to you, and that is actually quite an enjoyable experience, good luck with it.

Quote from: Pica Pica on February 04, 2008, 05:01:50 AM
My light switch was a trio of songs on an MP3 player whilst walking my dog.
(The songs were...
                      I can't remember the first one...
                      Freak Show - Gothic Archies
                      Here Comes the Summer -Undertones
They make no sense as to why I clicked to them.)


Now the game is to see what that switch means to you, and that is actually quite an enjoyable experience, good luck with it.

What in the Sam Hill has that to do with my topic?

Well it just shows that light switches are the key to becoming androgynous. 

Well I never really realized it through out my life, although it should have been obvious. I was always arguing and saying that "females don't necessarily work like this and males don't necessarily work like that, I mean I don't work like that". I never could argue my points on what other people did, never truly clicked that perhaps I was the different one and not the other people. I always kinda preferred hanging out with girls (pretty much all my friends are girls) and I'm perpetually frustrated that girls don't talk openly talk to me because I'm a guy. (I always feel like they only want to date me and that they feel like I only want to date them which I kinda hate)

But I only realized that I'm andro when I got confused for a girl on the one forum, (I take things a bit literally sometimes and I never really knew there was a distinction between physical sex and gender so it bothered me a little bit, I felt like I was lying by omission) then when she almost flat out stated that I was a girl I decided that I should probably tell her the truth. So I told her, and she said something about she won't think of me any differently and quickly added that she won't keep on thinking of me as a girl, to which I replied that I don't really care about which she thinks I am. (and I put my foot in my mouth rather badly there) At which point it hit me like a ton of bricks, I don't care which because I don't associate with either. So yeah that's pretty much my (very long) story, though since then I've thought that perhaps I'm a MtF, but I don't think that I'm only female.

Quote from: Nero on February 04, 2008, 05:08:45 AM
What in the Sam Hill has that to do with my topic?

We're not just enlightened androgynes, we're enlightened thread hijackers.  >

My light bulb went off as soon as I read the word androgyne.  It was an epiphany of epic proportions!

Quote from: sd on February 04, 2008, 03:35:47 AM
How do I know I found myself?

When I found what I truly was, it was like going from black and white to color at the flick of a switch. I do not mean "oh, that is what I am", I mean it rocked me to the core. The whole thing has hit me so hard that I have been trying to document my whole life and while doing so re-evaluate everything. All the problems in my life suddenly became clear, even my sexual desires which were fuzzy on some things, suddenly I can see what they are. I even look at porn differently now, things I sort of liked or were unsure of have changed.


It was/is really strange to be honest.

Very well put.  My life changed from black & white to color too.   It was so intense and that one realization did what years of contemplation couldn't it cleaned me true.

Posted on: February 04, 2008, 07:10:10 PM

---

Quote from: Jaimey on February 04, 2008, 06:36:43 PM

Quote from: Nero on February 04, 2008, 05:08:45 AM
What in the Sam Hill has that to do with my topic?

We're not just enlightened androgynes, we're enlightened thread hijackers.  >

My light bulb went off as soon as I read the word androgyne.  It was an epiphany of epic proportions!

I'm such a dope that I continued to struggle with it even though I could see it right in front of me.  I had to read some of Leslie Feinberg's books that say it's not necessary to be either of the top two.
    I swear to God that I can be an idiot.  In fact, it may be my middle name - Rebis Idiot Mumble