Well everyone... I need your support... again... why does my husband (no transitioning yet) constantly pick fights with me??? I stopped asking questions about what he feels or how he sees me at his request to allow fir his mind to settle down. Then he will start to talk about some things but then when I respond with questions or concerns I have... he shuts down and begins to pick a fight with me. To turn the subject off of the subject of his not fully accepting that he is Transgender. He tells me that he wants HRT but that he won't go on them... but he will make comments about wishing he could... The thought is always there (I told him I support him going on them) so why won't he take that step?? It's driving me crazy with all the back and forth...

Hello Miss i am in the same situation as you husband and it took me 49 years to suceed in accepting myself and though on hrt i stil didn't make my mind about transitioning. What i can tell you is that begining HRT brought me a huge relief and the marvel of discovering that i love my wife more than ever, even though i do not desire her and She is not accepting the idea of my transition.
I know it is a very difficult situation for you and a awful lot of pain, and i wish that both of you can sort it out in the future

While you most certianly do not deserve to be on the receiving end of their confussion and internalized transphobia, it is important to understand that they have burried these feelings forever so it is possible their own mind is convincing them to not go through with this. Still, they shouldnt be doing this to you i am sorry to hear

We've been conditioned since we were young to see being feminine as weak, and transgendered people as freaks (even though many of them just look like women). He's working through his own demons, he emotionally needs to transition, and rationally wants to shut that emotion off, it's an internal struggle that went on for decades for me (and probably him too). No one is to blame for this, it's just the way it is. He needs to talk about it, but wants to avoid the subject, it's internal conflict at the core.

Quote from: Daniellekai on March 17, 2017, 10:42:26 AM
We've been conditioned since we were young to see being feminine as weak, and transgendered people as freaks (even though many of them just look like women). He's working through his own demons, he emotionally needs to transition, and rationally wants to shut that emotion off, it's an internal struggle that went on for decades for me (and probably him too). No one is to blame for this, it's just the way it is. He needs to talk about it, but wants to avoid the subject, it's internal conflict at the core.

I am decades younger but this rings true to me aswell. Its a sub-conious thing as I have been told by many shrink people lol

Sofhie89, can I ask why you say you love your wife but don't desire her? That confuses me.

I'm not really sure how I would've reacted to "I've been talking to trans people on the internet who all say they're just like you!" either btw...

I never tell him things like that. I ask him questions more about how he feels towards me as I wonder if our relationship and marriage has all been a lie. Especially when I hear of others talk about realizing they don't  desire their SO or have realized the are attracted to the other sex. That really scares me. And the fact that he, even though is struggling in his own way, forgets that he had known about this his whole 42 years where I just found out and am questioning everything. I'm trying to be there for him and accept him and allow him (or give him the "its ok" words) take HRT to help him come into balance. But he won't let me... It's not fair for him to lay all of this on me, have me go through emotional pain (he tells me this but doesn't like me to cry or ask questions), to acting out in dressing and acceptance, to now telling me he doesn't want to transition or even talk about it... but it's ok when he wants to talk or search FB or the internet for the perfect boobs (which he says he will never do). It's like all of a sudden he has to look at everyone's boobs. That bothers me greatly. It's like he's cheating on me. And that devastates me deeply. When I tell him this he says I'm being insecure and gets angry with me. YES IM INSECURE ABOUT ALL OF THIS!!! Why can't he comfort me and be there for me like I do for him???

Quote from: Twoman44 on March 17, 2017, 11:26:27 AM
... Especially when I hear of others talk about realizing they don't  desire their SO or have realized the are attracted to the other sex. That really scares me.

...It's like all of a sudden he has to look at everyone's boobs. That bothers me greatly. It's like he's cheating on me. And that devastates me deeply.

...Why can't he comfort me and be there for me like I do for him???

Just a few thoughts on your very real and valid concerns. I don't know if what I say reflects your husband's thoughts.

For myself (MtF) I have absolutely no desire for men (sorry guys). Switching my sexual attraction is unrelated to my gender identity. Yes I do see people talking about it here, but it's not really connected as far as I know.

I don't know about looking at boobs (moi?). But I do find myself looking at women in a new way, as examples rather than as objects of desire. I am not judging or attracted, just seeing how they dress, walk, talk, and yes body shapes. It's trying to internalize what I see, but not changing how I view my wife (except maybe listening to her speech patterns).

You are deserving of his support. You shouldn't even have to ask, although I myself have been oblivious many times to my wife's needs, and sometimes indeed she has had to ask. It's a guy thing, sad to say. A long learning experience for both of us, which while not complete (never will be), hopefully is far along. I hope you will be able to get some communication flowing, and some comfort and support. You deserve it, and nothing less.
Love
Randy

The obsession he says is that he has none... and would like to have a nice set of perfect DDs... I told him that if he wanted to continue presenting as male to the world but go on HRT to gain some feminine attributes then DDs are not possible especially without augmentation ( and if anyone is getting perfect breasts... it will be me...). So I asked him if having smaller A or B cups would be satisfying and his response was that he would always be wishing for large breasts... I told him that sounds like a guy comment for sexual pleasure rather than to feel feminine... that's what bothers me about the hood obsession. It's like he wants them for sexual pleasure instead of the feeling of being a woman... yes I know that even cis women want larger breasts but on HRT, that's probably not going to happen especially if he wants to be able to conceal them.... But then in his next breath he says that breasts and becoming a woman is a fantasy of his that he will never let happen....

That's a pickle. Although I myself used to find the sexual ''fun'' in seeing me as a female back when I was like 15, I couldn't even get even a little sexual arousal now. Its just too real, and being a woman is something I actually want. He could be a fetishist, or he could just be beating around the bush a bit to not show his heart on his shoulders. Weather it be for kinks or he genuinely wants to be female but is very lost, do not allow yourself to be a target over his lostness. He needs counselling in anycase imo

Twoman,

I can hazard some guesses and I'm going to refer to your partner as she since that feels more natural to me for someone who desires HRT etc, no matter how conflicted.

First I think it's important to remember that she's looking at losing a lot of things she knows in exchange for unknowns. No matter how uncomfortable, the things we know and have learned to live with aren't easy to let go of. Consider people with PTSD or significant violence in their childhood - I'm one of those and the reality is that people adapt to what they have to right down in the areas of the brain that aren't accessible to the rational mind.

Also consider that if change is even a topic then those coping mechanisms must be under heavy strain. The things you describe sound like fairly normal inability to process emotions in a time of stress and certainly aggressive behavior is a normal, if dysfunctional masculine coping mechanism.

He may not know this - I didn't but I certainly considered - if hrt makes him feel better then there may be no going back. I'm 14 months into feminine estrogen levels and it was pretty damned clear at the first month that I would never want to stop that. At about 4 months (well after the point of some permanent physical changes) I tried going off for a month to verify this was the right path and see if maybe I could stop short of reassignment surgery by cycling hormones between estrogen and testosterone.

I have no certainty of what my sexuality will be post-op, I will spend the rest of my life with a non-binary appearance and while I'd give up both testicles to be a passable female, what im actually going to get for that will be a passable vagina.

Before I could get to that point I had to accept that my emotional life would be forever plagued by trying to play the masculine roles that I'd needed to survive that long. Even when you've realized a role doesn't work it can be hard to let go after so many years.

At 4 months on HRT, what were some of your permanent changes?

The main one would be breast development, I don't know if anything else ever becomes permanent.

Quote from: SadieBlake on March 17, 2017, 03:08:58 PM
Twoman,

I can hazard some guesses and I'm going to refer to your partner as she since that feels more natural to me for someone who desires HRT etc, no matter how conflicted.

First I think it's important to remember that she's looking at losing a lot of things she knows in exchange for unknowns. No matter how uncomfortable, the things we know and have learned to live with aren't easy to let go of. Consider people with PTSD or significant violence in their childhood - I'm one of those and the reality is that people adapt to what they have to right down in the areas of the brain that aren't accessible to the rational mind.

Also consider that if change is even a topic then those coping mechanisms must be under heavy strain. The things you describe sound like fairly normal inability to process emotions in a time of stress and certainly aggressive behavior is a normal, if dysfunctional masculine coping mechanism.

He may not know this - I didn't but I certainly considered - if hrt makes him feel better then there may be no going back. I'm 14 months into feminine estrogen levels and it was pretty damned clear at the first month that I would never want to stop that. At about 4 months (well after the point of some permanent physical changes) I tried going off for a month to verify this was the right path and see if maybe I could stop short of reassignment surgery by cycling hormones between estrogen and testosterone.

I have no certainty of what my sexuality will be post-op, I will spend the rest of my life with a non-binary appearance and while I'd give up both testicles to be a passable female, what im actually going to get for that will be a passable vagina.

Before I could get to that point I had to accept that my emotional life would be forever plagued by trying to play the masculine roles that I'd needed to survive that long. Even when you've realized a role doesn't work it can be hard to let go after so many years.

If you have deep deep persoanl questions I must admit SadieBlake is one of the best people to talk to. Her knowledge has helped me, and I am a hard nut to crack.. Ok, im done with brown noseing !

I would like to add my $0.02 in on this, since I have similar self doubts, just recently opened up to my wife about this, have now done anything other than research and dress subtly to how I feel, and I'm only 7 years younger than your husband.

I am for lack of  better words, "A man's man." I am tuff, aggressive when/where I need to be, have always had "a man's" job. I'm former infantry, and I love getting dirty working on cars. That being said, I have longed to be a woman for as long as I can remember. I love the feeling of wearing women's clothing, and I love the feeling I get inside (it feels natural) when I do. I am a hot mess of "WTF is going on, I thought I had suppressed these feelings decades ago", all the way to, "That's it, it's time I stop lying to myself, and embrace what is in me!" Women have complex emotions, men have unique emotions, and those of us in the middle? Well, we're our own group of not knowing how/why we have these emotions, and it is 100% terrifying (for me at least, and from what I've read all around the internet). Your husband sounds exactly like he is in this group. For 42 years he's been "a man", and has only known his success as "a man", and switching that into an unknown factor; it is a fear unlike any I have ever thought of. As a man we know what we want (sexually, and non), but as a woman? I couldn't even assure you that he'd still like mustard (if he even does now) after doing any kind of hrt. But this is a time when he needs you as much, or if not more than you need him; however he is closing the door in your face, and that is not right. I honestly feel that he needs to talk to a professional, and if he is reluctant on that, he can talk to me (I'm faceless, easy going, and I enjoy helping others). I'm still masculine in my nature and appearance. I'm a biker, and a trucker. But I too am on thin ice with my own feelings and wants/desires. I will be talking with someone soon, and I would also like to extend out an invitation to everyone here on my journey, as I make it (I do everything in 5 year plans, and that's my goal).

Sorry I rambled, but again, he sounds like me, and I feel like I'm 5 years old again, and I've lost my mom in the mall, and I don't know what to do.

Sweetie,

That's a tricky one indeed, as you want to know, you want to plan and have some understanding of short -mid term what's going on.

She's asking herself all sorts of questions, and those questions just won't stop. They are there 24/7, and probably as much as she can cope with, and she is trying to help to keep you in the loop when she has an answer in her mind to one small fragment.

She probably doesn't have enough fragments yet, to form a piece of the jigsaw, let alone start to piece them together, and is also probably struggling to clarify the extra questions that are arising from the fragments - being unable to do that can be very frustrating, especially if there is a related stream of questions coming in at the same time. It helps me to think of it like a head of brocolli with each stalk branching to smaller and smaller stalks until you start to see the florets, and ultimately the whole head.

Your relationship is founded on her personality, her behaviour, her values, and a part on her body.  If as an adult, you discovered that you enjoyed painting, and never realised it before, it would be a new facet of your personality - and a new story in your journey together. Gender can be a bit like that - but unlike taking up art, there are cultural weights attached within a relationship, of defined areas that were assumed to be beyond question, but that is an assumption based on the standard hetero-normative model that is held to be ideal, the standard narrative from childhood stories. What is happening now is that those assumptions are being challenged, and together you can chose to define those areas however you choose to.

Male culture can have quite toxic patterns.. I feel like this, so I must man my way out of it - not being able to man it out, and having to accept medication can feel like failure - the first of many male fails, and when someone is uncertain of gender, they want to seek comfort in being able to do things in the way their practised gender would do, and for that not to work is a catastrophe!

Maybe she also feels that if she starts doing anything to help address these feelings, she will not be able to stop at all. Like that feeling of standing at the top of a ski slope in the fog, looking down and it's straight into the mist, so there is no indication of where it goes, or where it stops, it is terrifying.

At the moment, everything is dependant on your partner, and cannot be quickly resolved, and there are lots of areas of unknown and uncertain, and that is frustrating.

There is quite often talk of a need to transition, and that need is a personally expressed desire, it's what starts the whole process off. (Cue terrible allegory)..Whimsical I enjoy cake, to cake could be nice, to cake would be nice, to I'm hungry, I'd like some cake, to I need some cake, and finally, I need some cake now. If we look at your partners journey so far, she knows she enjoys cake, and is unsure if it is possible, espcially as she's though she never enjoyed cake until now.

We are at the start of the journey and we're here for you at every step.

I've rambled on quite a lot, hopefully there is a pearl in here somewhere

Rowan

Thank you everyone. I cried all the way home from work today (I'm hardly ever alone to full out cry). What if he never comes to terms with this? Will our life be like this forever? For someone who feels female inside, he sure doesn't have any female feelings... so it's really hard to wrap my mind around seeing him as female....he's kind of a hard ass... not an emotional bone in him (except maybe anger). Are there any of you that want HRT but say you won't go on it or transition? That's what my husband says. Is it possible that he is bi gender? Or just denying he is a woman? I'm hoping that he will want to stick with the therapist but he really doesn't want to go... I'm pretty sure going to one, to him, is the first step to transitioning. He's afraid (IMO) that if he goes to therapy he will be offered HRT and how it could lead help his thoughts (he won't let me call it dysphoria). And then I he hormones will feel good and want more (this is where my biggest fear comes into play..). I'm afraid he will change his sexual orientation and not desire me anymore). I love the support and that you are all willing to hear me out and h LL answer my questions!

One quick question: could he expect (being 42) to have at least an A cup within 4-6 months on HRT? Could he still present as male and hide what's going on underneath?

Quote from: Twoman44 on March 18, 2017, 01:49:06 AM

One quick question: could he expect (being 42) to have at least an A cup within 4-6 months on HRT?

Maybe.  It depends on individual genetics, lifestyle, and body fat, but it is possible.

QuoteCould he still present as male and hide what's going on underneath?

Yes, although after a while tight shirts don't work so well anymore if one wants to be completely hidden.  Mostly, people will see what they expect.



Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote

I'm non-op, and non-transitioning. I have a very lovely partner that I am making my sacrifice for. -she is my world. She knows that, and my children have had it explained to them 'and that's why I think like a girl', walk like one and socially mainly behave like one.

In terms of labelling, I identify here as a neutrois, Demi-girl. I'm more girl than not, but there is a part where I see both sides. In old times, I would have been called two-spirit. In the world outside of these walls, I am viewed with my birth designation. But that often fails, spectacularly. I am glad, because I'm gifted a life of few surprises.

In normal life, I am an alien, I do not fit the male mould, and whilst the female mould would work much better than my current designation,  I would still be denying a part of me that sees both sides. Yet it makes my heart sing when I am misgendered (not often, excepting male fail), as its endorsement that despite the odds, my gender reality is visible whether I try to hide it, or not and I accept that.
Of course there is a fundamental predilection for shoes, and handbags, nail polish and lipstick that I can, in the main satisfy vicariously, or at home in some me time. And yes, I love how my overly short nails look, for that brief time.

Yes, I get dysphoria. Being an alien is very lonesome socially - General folk find me too weird (gender flips around too much for them to handle), and there are physical parts of me that would change in a heartbeat, if I was not in my current situation. Yes I still pray for the grand struggle, to remove the options of not having hrt, or some procedures, yes I have days when I desire to cease to be present, and now I have many days when I know, to the depths of my soul that I am not my birth assigned gender, but I'm not the other either., well not entirely. And dysphoria is worse when I'm with a true alpha-female, somehow I try to be more femme, and end up biting my tongue to keep myself quiet, because nice girls don't do that, do they. Keeping busy helps, and keeping technically challenged helps too.

It is not an easy path, although I am one of the few who is able (at the moment), to keep some kind of truce in place, and it is a truce.

It's through the good folk here that Rowan (my femme name), is given the good air to breathe, to be herself. Yes I'm intrigued to how I came to be - I have a grandmother who was likely given DES, and possibly my mother too (not sure that will ever see the light of day), and as a result have eunuchoid habitus, but I am pleased that I have life here, even if that's limited.

The outcome from suppressing all of this, is sadly that I get really, horribly frightened about specific sorts of acknowledgement, change and control. It does manifest as self harm, although I'm smart(dumb!) enough to have chosen a tool the leaves little if any marks. I get panic attacks for *anything* involving needles and loss of control, and that has landed me in hospital. I get depressed, because I feel "wrong" in myself, and yet what lifts me is love. I love folk and their potential, I want to help them understand that I care and love them for daring to be themselves. I innately desperately need to care, nurture and feed my idiosyncratic family, even if the food that is needed is encouragement, so that in my heart I can have some hope that they do not feel null and void. The unspoken blank page.

In my career, I'm good at being the hard ass, as I see both sides and the social machinations, the underlying agendas, and the compromise needed to bring agreements and progress. I also pump 130% of me into my roles, because the outcome, the success is my gift of love. It is what I can give birth to, inspite of not actually being able to birth a child - and yes I would love to feel the stirring of infinite potential within me, and that makes me sad, every time I see another woman on that great journey that I would love to be able to do myself.

I'd suggest that I'm lesbian - no interest in the males what so ever really, and I doubt that would change even if I do get to crack transition.

Will this change? I don't know.
Maybe. I am certain that I am trans - my life only makes sense if incorrect gender based behaviours are applied. Susan's place and the lovely ladies and gents are my group therapy, I'm sure I would be in a very dark place without them.

(hugs)


Rowan