Quote from: SailorMars1994 on May 08, 2017, 08:45:30 PM
I agree Vicki. Your looks are goals girl xoxo

Awww, thank you!

Vicki,
   Thank you for the kind comments about what I posted. I started thinking about your article. I noticed you mentioning courage a number of times. Speaking only for me, I can't say that I had courage when transitioning. I see it more in my case as desperation. I worked through fears not by courage but by fear of the gender denial cycle that I had lived for so long. I wonder what you think. Should we stress courage as the answer to moving forward? Maybe it is just semantics, but I wonder if determination is a better description. I think I was so sick of the old reality, I finally found the determination to push through the fear (while being terrified.) I can see many out there saying, "Well I'm not brave, how can I possibly transition?"
   I thank you for what you are doing for others. I don't mean the above paragraph to be critical of your article. I hope in all this that you as an individual are finding what you need.
   Moni
Oh, and if you found something I said to be valuable in some way steal away. lol

Hi Vicki,

I can't thank you enough for sharing this article - it's really mirroring a lot I'm wrestling with at the moment.

What gets me is that I'm wrestling with the line "Do I have the balls to do it?" Maybe I do, but I just need that starting point, eureka moment etc. Do you remember yours or was it always there?

Lastly you are amazing if no one's told you already today! 😁

Quote from: HappyMoni on May 09, 2017, 08:10:52 PM
I can't say that I had courage when transitioning. I see it more in my case as desperation. I worked through fears not by courage but by fear of the gender denial cycle that I had lived for so long. I wonder what you think. Should we stress courage as the answer to moving forward? Maybe it is just semantics, but I wonder if determination is a better description. I think I was so sick of the old reality, I finally found the determination to push through the fear (while being terrified.)

Well the short answer, Moni, would be to use whatever works for you. Having said that, I still believe it's courage that is at play. Why? Because finally saying 'no more' to the fears and feelings that kept you constrained is true courage. You shied away from the battleground for so many years allowing your true self to be kept hidden,because of those fears. So in my opinion, it absolutely is courage (and determination is an integral attribute of courage) because whichever way you look at it, you summoned up the desire to take a stand and face the world as a different gender come what may. And you are in the minority - most lack that conviction and strength of will.

QuoteI thank you for what you are doing for others. I don't mean the above paragraph to be critical of your article. I hope in all this that you as an individual are finding what you need.

Thank you.

Quote from: reallynotsure83 on May 10, 2017, 10:53:23 AM
Hi Vicki,

I can't thank you enough for sharing this article - it's really mirroring a lot I'm wrestling with at the moment.

You're welcome.

QuoteWhat gets me is that I'm wrestling with the line "Do I have the balls to do it?" Maybe I do, but I just need that starting point, eureka moment etc. Do you remember yours or was it always there?

I think this is one of the biggest myths perpetuated by the trans community - the eureka moment. How many times have we read about someone stating they knew they were trans from the age of 5 or when their mum dressed them up for Halloween or whenever? And this puts pressure on the rest of us - including myself: 'am I trans enough? X knew she was trans at that stage and Y knew she was trans at this stage yet I'm only just pondering it now so that must mean I'm not trans, right?'. Like oh so many of us, I never had a eureka moment. My trans slowly grew. I was always intrigued in cross dressing from an early age (but not all trans are) and mine was very sexual in my late teens. In my mid-20s I became at ease with being a ->-bleeped-<- and stopped trying to rationalise or reason it.

At that point I thought there was no more on the horizon but the last 15 months have shattered that completely. Even after 10 year of being happy as a ->-bleeped-<- I still managed to shock myself into something I never saw coming. Be it I was always in denial and only managed to let go now at a certain age with no steady relationship blocking my way, or whether it's a drop in testosterone that's made me more open, or whether it's just grown inside me over time, the fact is there was never one defining moment and I've been heartened by many TS and gender docs telling me that I am the norm and that the 'I always knew I was a girl' rhetoric is the outlier and, in many cases, said because it's expected of them and to gain validation.

Like so many I found things happening slowly over time. First I was hit by a wave of 'OMG I think I want this all the time!' and venturing into new territory of checking out laser, piercings, HRT. Next I was hit by the doubts and fears and so I ran away from it, only to come back, run away, come back etc and get caught in the turbulence you're feeling right now. Yet through it all - even when I was adamant I was just a TV and silly to think I was TS - I was booking in laser, electrolysis, piercings, eyebrow shaping and nail treatments. Imagine: me waking up with a smile on my face, laughing at myself for thinking I was anything other than a man, and then heading straight out to get my legs lasered and belly button pierced!

QuoteLastly you are amazing if no one's told you already today! 😁

Awww thank you!!!!!!!!

Quote from: vicki_sixx on May 11, 2017, 07:45:37 AM

I think this is one of the biggest myths perpetuated by the trans community - the eureka moment. How many times have we read about someone stating they knew they were trans from the age of 5 or when their mum dressed them up for Halloween or whenever? And this puts pressure on the rest of us - including myself: 'am I trans enough? X knew she was trans at that stage and Y knew she was trans at this stage yet I'm only just pondering it now so that must mean I'm not trans, right?'. Like oh so many of us, I never had a eureka moment. My trans slowly grew. I was always intrigued in cross dressing from an early age (but not all trans are) and mine was very sexual in my late teens. In my mid-20s I became at ease with being a ->-bleeped-<- and stopped trying to rationalise or reason it.

At that point I thought there was no more on the horizon but the last 15 months have shattered that completely. Even after 10 year of being happy as a ->-bleeped-<- I still managed to shock myself into something I never saw coming. Be it I was always in denial and only managed to let go now at a certain age with no steady relationship blocking my way, or whether it's a drop in testosterone that's made me more open, or whether it's just grown inside me over time, the fact is there was ever one defining moment and I've been heartened by many TS and gender docs telling me that I am the norm and that the 'I always knew I was a girl' rhetoric is the outlier and in many cases, said because it's expected of them and to gain validation.

Like so many I found things happening slowly over time. First I was hit by a wave of 'OMG I think I want this all the time!' and venturing into new territory of checking out laser, piercings, HRT. Next I was hit by the doubts and fears and running away, only to come back, run away come back and get caught in the turbulence you're feeling right now Yet through it all - even when I was adamant I was just a TV and silly to think I was TS - I was booking in laser, electrolysis, piercings, eyebrow shaping and nail treatments. Imagine: me waking up with a smile on my face, laughing at myself for thinking I was anything other than a man, and then heading straight out to get my legs lasered and belly button pierced!

That's it exactly! I have always dismissed any gender disphoric feelings I've had over the years because I've always thought that I wasn't genuine because I never knew from say age 4 or 5 but it's been gradual, such as imagining myself as a girl with glasses in lingerie in my late teens to say looking at transgender women and finding them beautiful but not in an "I'm attracted to them way" but "wow they're beautiful, I wish I was like them" and looking at different beautiful women but not being able to make the distinction and just thinking it was because I was attracted to the hot chicks!

There's a lot more than that, but those are the moments that on reflection that makes me realise I can't just ignore it anymore especially seeing as how the thoughts are increasing, like worrying now my muscles are forming at the gym or hating my beard that my SO likes so much.

It's so refreshing to hear that I'm not in a minority who start to feel it this way.

I have had, on many occasions, taken a step back to question the be all and end all of it. I have mental and physical scars from first coming out when I was very young. I buried who I was for many many years which lead to mental health issues. I am not going to go into the the depths of all the things that made me stop and think but it is safe to say that not making the choice would have been a lot worse in the long run. The best part of this experience for me was though, that when I finally said enough I need to do this, my wife at the time supported me and now 10 years later finally came out as a transman and is making the journey with me ...Always thought the tomboy thing was a bit too realistic lol.

xxx
Nooms

Quote from: reallynotsure83 on May 11, 2017, 08:55:03 AM
That's it exactly! I have always dismissed any gender disphoric feelings I've had over the years because I've always thought that I wasn't genuine because I never knew from say age 4 or 5 but it's been gradual, such as imagining myself as a girl with glasses in lingerie in my late teens to say looking at transgender women and finding them beautiful but not in an "I'm attracted to them way" but "wow they're beautiful, I wish I was like them" and looking at different beautiful women but not being able to make the distinction and just thinking it was because I was attracted to the hot chicks!

There's a lot more than that, but those are the moments that on reflection that makes me realise I can't just ignore it anymore especially seeing as how the thoughts are increasing, like worrying now my muscles are forming at the gym or hating my beard that my SO likes so much.

It's so refreshing to hear that I'm not in a minority who start to feel it this way.

I'm exactly where you are right now. Worrying about my body since I have been going to the gym for the past year and I did gain muscle...so now I'm only doing cardio and hoping I lose it all soon. Also hating my beard that I've had for the past 5 years or so...and now I can't stand it and it itches so much.

For me it's also been gradually increasing. Looking back I remember times when I was very little that I exhibited some behaviors that could be read as trans but back then I didn't think anything of it, I just didn't know! It wasn't until I was 20 that I started questioning and the thoughts have just increased over time.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on May 11, 2017, 02:47:44 PM
I'm exactly where you are right now. Worrying about my body since I have been going to the gym for the past year and I did gain muscle...so now I'm only doing cardio and hoping I lose it all soon. Also hating my beard that I've had for the past 5 years or so...and now I can't stand it and it itches so much.

For me it's also been gradually increasing. Looking back I remember times when I was very little that I exhibited some behaviors that could be read as trans but back then I didn't think anything of it, I just didn't know! It wasn't until I was 20 that I started questioning and the thoughts have just increased over time.

For me the development of my muscles seems like a smokescreen that just applies to myself. Like I've convinced myself that I'm so happy with the way my muscles are as I'm looking "manly" for the first time in my life yet really, I'd be happier with a girly figure. I watch the Kanye West video "fade" and unlike most I don't ogle the woman in it, I wish I was the woman in it!

Y god, I've just admitted that "out loud" and vocalised something I never thought possible!

Quote from: reallynotsure83 on May 11, 2017, 08:55:03 AM
That's it exactly! I have always dismissed any gender disphoric feelings I've had over the years because I've always thought that I wasn't genuine because I never knew from say age 4 or 5 but it's been gradual, such as imagining myself as a girl with glasses in lingerie in my late teens to say looking at transgender women and finding them beautiful but not in an "I'm attracted to them way" but "wow they're beautiful, I wish I was like them" and looking at different beautiful women but not being able to make the distinction and just thinking it was because I was attracted to the hot chicks!

Now it's my turn to say 'exactly!'

Looking back now, I realise my enchantment and entrancement at seeing gorgeous, sexy women - staring lovingly at album covers, lingerie models and girls in real life - was not merely sexual lust of a horny teenager but the unspoken, unknowing appreciation of their femininity and my longing to be like them. I always knew I was looking at females in a more intense light than my friends but it never stood out because we were 14 years-old and raging with unspent testosterone - and so I'd tell myself I'm imagining it and that my friends are looking in the same way as I am. But I was never truly convinced - for a start they weren't as bewitched as much as I was, they'd look for a bit but not as intently, at every detail, plus they gawped at the obvious: the boobs and legs. I, on the other hand, would scope out all the other attributes: slender arms, lips, eyebrows, earrings, cleavage peeking above the dress.

For example, I had an album cover of a young woman in a slinky, strappy mini dress, with bare legs and open-toe high heels sat on the floor and leaning against a wall looking sexy but dejected. And I would gaze at her for the longest time with unidentified wonder, mesmerised by her nose - small, slender, curving upward ever so slightly - her shapely jaw line and chin, her painted toes peeking through her heels, the shimmer on her shaved and shapely legs, the delicate straps of her dress etc And though there was undoubted sexual lust at play I knew, I just knew, there was something more pulling me to this image (and a thousand others). I could never put my finger on it and it always niggled me. I thought I was super horny or that I was just getting lost in the fact that women are nicer to look at that men, that they have the benefit of curves, makeup, nail varnish and skimpy outfits but I also knew none of these reasons - valid as they were - explained the full story.

And only now do I recognise the missing piece of the jigsaw: my identification with these woman and wanting to be like them. Even in my most dysphoric, confused and adamant-I'm-a-man moments, I know this to be true. I know now that I was seeing what I resonated with.

And now, in the past year, I've gone from looking at real girls with sexual appreciation to looking at them with jealousy and analysing their style, their accessories and makeup first and then - if at all - sexual appreciation.

QuoteThere's a lot more than that, but those are the moments that on reflection that makes me realise I can't just ignore it anymore especially seeing as how the thoughts are increasing, like worrying now my muscles are forming at the gym or hating my beard that my SO likes so much.

I hate to be the doom merchant but if you're at this stage then:
a) running to the gym and being all manly is only going to make your dysphoria worse.
b) you're going to have to give in to your trans or else live a life of misery (which usually means transitioning late in life, regretting you lost the opportunity to do it when younger)

QuoteIt's so refreshing to hear that I'm not in a minority who start to feel it this way.

I know, right!

Quote from: reallynotsure83 on May 11, 2017, 04:00:01 PM
For me the development of my muscles seems like a smokescreen that just applies to myself. Like I've convinced myself that I'm so happy with the way my muscles are as I'm looking "manly" for the first time in my life yet really, I'd be happier with a girly figure. I watch the Kanye West video "fade" and unlike most I don't ogle the woman in it, I wish I was the woman in it!

Y god, I've just admitted that "out loud" and vocalised something I never thought possible!

Don't you think admitting something like that is a positive step?  I do!

Though my feelings have increased over time - and it really doesn't matter why: whether they were always there or whether they've actually increased - and there is a recognised condition called 'late-onset transgerder' or something like it I do actually believe they were always there just suppressed.

Why do I say this? Because whenever I'd split with a girl I'd be overwhelmed with the urge to dive into trans: join a forum, place adverts for friends, buying wigs, watching makeup videos etc. I don't think it's any coincidence that the feelings would come out when there was no woman to provide the femininity for me, to make me feel 'manly' and to take the dominant role, to make me feel guilty, to make it unsafe for me to dabble. The sad thing is, just as I'd start to build a decent ->-bleeped-<- kit and start making friends and headway with makeup I'd invariably get another girlfriend and everything would be put on the back burner. Admittedly, not only because I couldn't indulge and shave my legs with a girl in my life but also because with a new woman in my life, I was happy to be a man (if only for a few months, after which I'd start sneaking on the trans site whenever she wasn't around!)

The sad thing is, had I not been so eager to get a new girl - which is hard when they look so nice and you're so libido-driven - and had I dedicated time to exploring my trans side in more depth, I am sure I'd have come to the realisation I'm transgender and would have transitioned when I was younger.

Quote from: vicki_sixx on May 11, 2017, 04:47:21 PM
Though my feelings have increased over time - and it really doesn't matter why: whether they were always there or whether they've actually increased - and there is a recognised condition called 'late-onset transgerder' or something like it I do actually believe they were always there just suppressed.

Why do I say this? Because whenever I'd split with a girl I'd be overwhelmed with the urge to dive into trans: join a forum, place adverts for friends, buying wigs, watching makeup videos etc. I don't think it's any coincidence that the feelings would come out when there was no woman to provide the femininity for me, to make me feel 'manly' and to take the dominant role, to make me feel guilty, to make it unsafe for me to dabble. The sad thing is, just as I'd start to build a decent ->-bleeped-<- kit and start making friends and headway with makeup I'd invariably get another girlfriend and everything would be put on the back burner. Admittedly, not only because I couldn't indulge and shave my legs with a girl in my life but also because with a new woman in my life, I was happy to be a man (if only for a few months, after which I'd start sneaking on the trans site whenever she wasn't around!)

The sad thing is, had I not been so eager to get a new girl - which is hard when they look so nice and you're so libido-driven - and had I dedicated time to exploring my trans side in more depth, I am sure I'd have come to the realisation I'm transgender and would have transitioned when I was younger.

I totally agree with you on this but for me it wasn't a girl who made me suppress but family. They were quite physical about me NOT showing my trans side, which was quite sad really. You would expect a traveller community to be a little more tolerant especially because they are often at the brunt of a lot of prejudice

Quote from: vicki_sixx on May 11, 2017, 04:32:55 PM
Now it's my turn to say 'exactly!'

Looking back now, I realise my enchantment and entrancement at seeing gorgeous, sexy women - staring lovingly at album covers, lingerie models and girls in real life - was not merely sexual lust of a horny teenager but the unspoken, unknowing appreciation of their femininity and my longing to be like them. I always knew I was looking at females in a more intense light than my friends but it never stood out because we were 14 years-old and raging with unspent testosterone - and so I'd tell myself I'm imagining it and that my friends are looking in the same way as I am. But I was never truly convinced - for a start they weren't as bewitched as much as I was, they'd look for a bit but not as intently, at every detail, plus they gawped at the obvious: the boobs and legs. I, on the other hand, would scope out all the other attributes: slender arms, lips, eyebrows, earrings, cleavage peeking above the dress.

For example, I had an album cover of a young woman in a slinky, strappy mini dress, with bare legs and open-toe high heels sat on the floor and leaning against a wall looking sexy but dejected. And I would gaze at her for the longest time with unidentified wonder, mesmerised by her nose - small, slender, curving upward ever so slightly - her shapely jaw line and chin, her painted toes peeking through her heels, the shimmer on her shaved and shapely legs, the delicate straps of her dress etc And though there was undoubted sexual lust at play I knew, I just knew, there was something more pulling me to this image (and a thousand others). I could never put my finger on it and it always niggled me. I thought I was super horny or that I was just getting lost in the fact that women are nicer to look at that men, that they have the benefit of curves, makeup, nail varnish and skimpy outfits but I also knew none of these reasons - valid as they were - explained the full story.

And only now do I recognise the missing piece of the jigsaw: my identification with these woman and wanting to be like them. Even in my most dysphoric, confused and adamant-I'm-a-man moments, I know this to be true. I know now that I was seeing what I resonated with.

And now, in the past year, I've gone from looking at real girls with sexual appreciation to looking at them with jealousy and analysing their style, their accessories and makeup first and then - if at all - sexual appreciation.

I hate to be the doom merchant but if you're at this stage then:
a) running to the gym and being all manly is only going to make your dysphoria worse.
b) you're going to have to give in to your trans or else live a life of misery (which usually means transitioning late in life, regretting you lost the opportunity to do it when younger)

I know, right!

I know you're talking an amazing amount of sense and are bang on (UK slang for 100% right, lol) when you say about going to the gym and being all manly. 

I need to either stop or stealth change my workout plan to do exercises that emphasise toning, fat burning and decrease in size until I can be more honest with my loved ones about who I am.

I felt myself going "Um-hum" or "that's right" about the rest of your post too. I think when we have these feelings of being able to understand that's not just attraction/lust but admiration and a want to be like that it's liberating yet scares me at the same time.

Lately I've been like that with the video to George Michael's "Freedom" where he has all the models in it. They are stunning yet it goes deeper, I'd love to be able to be just like so many of them especially Linda Evangelista. And it doesn't help that the lyrics are so apt for a lot of what we go through too.

Quote from: HappyMoni on May 11, 2017, 04:44:46 PM
Don't you think admitting something like that is a positive step?  I do!

Moni I really do, I am happy but yet so scared at the same time. It's not something that we can just admit but ignore and go back to living life the way things were before. I think that I need to work on my when and how I am potentially bringing this up to my SO, folks and my employer in the long run.

But I know I can't simply keep ignoring it, it's been occupying most of my waking thoughts these past few days.

Quote from: Nooms on May 11, 2017, 05:55:22 PM
I totally agree with you on this but for me it wasn't a girl who made me suppress but family. They were quite physical about me NOT showing my trans side, which was quite sad really. You would expect a traveller community to be a little more tolerant especially because they are often at the brunt of a lot of prejudice

Ouch, that's tough. That's one thing I do know about the traveller community especially hearing of and meeting a few in my profession - they can be super traditional in some matters, especially births, weddings and funerals (which is where I come in).

Quote from: reallynotsure83 on May 12, 2017, 06:18:25 AM
Ouch, that's tough. That's one thing I do know about the traveller community especially hearing of and meeting a few in my profession - they can be super traditional in some matters, especially births, weddings and funerals (which is where I come in).

The births part is something my partner and I have had to deal with a lot. As you may well know, it was and still is, not uncommon for travelling families to NOT register their children at birth (this is the case with my partner and I) usually to avoid issues with social services and them taking their children into care, something that happens a lot unfortunately. We have had a nightmare trying to gain I.D and stuff. No birth certificate, no help. We tried to apply for one about 6 years ago but without a living relative to say when and where we born, it is an impossibility. I suppose at least we wont need to worry about changing the name on it too match our gender lol.

Quote from: Nooms on May 12, 2017, 06:41:19 AM
The births part is something my partner and I have had to deal with a lot. As you may well know, it was and still is, not uncommon for travelling families to NOT register their children at birth (this is the case with my partner and I) usually to avoid issues with social services and them taking their children into care, something that happens a lot unfortunately. We have had a nightmare trying to gain I.D and stuff. No birth certificate, no help. We tried to apply for one about 6 years ago but without a living relative to say when and where we born, it is an impossibility. I suppose at least we wont need to worry about changing the name on it too match our gender lol.

Lol I suppose thank god for small graces I suppose.   

Can I ask is that you out of the community now or are you still there but just not on talking terms with your family? X

Quote from: reallynotsure83 on May 12, 2017, 06:13:24 AM
not just attraction/lust but admiration and a want to be like that it's liberating yet scares me at the same time.

Of course it's scary - hence why I wrote the article I linked in my OP. You're giving up not only all you've ever kown but all that's expected of you by society. But you have to face the fear and do it anyway.

Believe me, life is much easier when you stop caring. And I'm living proof. The prospect of shopping in a female clothes shop and trying outfits on terrified me and it took me ages to pluck up the courage yet when I did, it was so liberating - no more ordering online and having to send items back because they didn't fit or suit and then wait for refunds - and I was amazed at how easy it was. Same goes for stepping outside of the house en femme. And same goes for telling my work colleagues I'm trans. When you own it and show no fear or embarrassment it puts you in the control. People don't take the piss because I feel no shame and in fact, they're the ones squirming as I'm teasing them by saying I'll make them over and lend them a dress!

Quote from: reallynotsure83 on May 12, 2017, 06:15:53 AM
Moni I really do, I am happy but yet so scared at the same time. It's not something that we can just admit but ignore and go back to living life the way things were before.

But why would you want to? Why would you want the dull and humdrum? Why would you want a life without the fabulousness of heels, makeup and sexy outfits? Why would you want to be invisible and bland when you can stand out and be a unicorn?

QuoteI think that I need to work on my when and how I am potentially bringing this up to my SO, folks and my employer in the long run.

It's easier than you think. Especially with employers. Not only are they legally-obliged to do right by you but you'll also find yourself fast tracked in many cases because employers have diversity targets to attain. And besides that, your work colleagues aren't emotionally invested in you - in other words, they don't give a crap what you do with your life. Parents should be okay, too, because you are and always will be their child.

Your SO is the challenge - she got with a man and that is what she wants. After all, how would you feel if your partner said she wanted to turn into a hairy-chested beer-bellied moustachioed man? I'm betting you wouldn't be too enamoured. And I know that is horrifying - the prospect of losing her but again, that's why I wrote my article. (Have you read it?). It's also unfair to live a lie and hold onto someone who doesn't know (or would want) the real you. And if she doesn't want to be with you then - believe it or not - she isn't right for you because you deserve someone who does want you. And before you start to think you couldn't live without her, you thought the same about all those other girls who broke your heart yet you recovered just fine. Last of all, you may find that - like my friends discovered - she wants to say with you and loves you regardless

QuoteBut I know I can't simply keep ignoring it, it's been occupying most of my waking thoughts these past few days.

No because:
1) you're not being true to yourself.
2) you can never give your kids moral guidance if you can't be true to yourself.
3) you will become more and more unhappy - until you split up anyway or worse, live a wretched life of misery.
4) you only get one life.

Quote from: reallynotsure83 on May 12, 2017, 08:18:48 AM
Lol I suppose thank god for small graces I suppose.   

Can I ask is that you out of the community now or are you still there but just not on talking terms with your family? X

We ran, we ran so far that we forgot who we were...Joking aside no we are not part of that life any more, its just me and Callen now. Has been for over 15 years and we don't regret a moment. Never been safer or happier to be honest!

xxx
Nooms