Like many of you, I don't pass for a woman in appearance. When I completely dress up and look in the mirror, I don't like what I see because I look like a man dressed like a woman. If my gender identity is a woman and I continue to look male it is very anxiety provoking. If I transition, I know I will not be satisfied with my appearance. If I transition, I know I will lose friends and family. It is a rationalization to say that I will make new friends. I don't want to hang out with other TG that look like men dressed like women. It will just remind me that I also don't pass. Also, I know if I transition, I will be scrutinized and judged because let's face it, the majority of people don't get it or understand it. I have dealt with life-long depression from repression of my true self and I know I will not be able to deal with the anxiety from all of the above. I know I will not be able to deal with being alone with myself. My marriage has already fallen apart, which sucks!

So how do you deal with not passing? I don't want to hear I need a therapist because I have a great therapist. I don't want to hear that I need to be true to myself at all costs because otherwise I will never be happy. I know I won't be happy still dealing with my male appearance. I  know I won't be happy losing relationships with friends and family that I have built up over my lifetime. I won't have surgery both due to the high costs and because I have had elective surgery in the past that was disastrous. I can't imagine any of you would rather be cisgender rather than a TG woman. All of you wish you could look just like a woman with the ultimate goal of passing. Why else would you take hormones and have surgery? Isn't that what we all ultimately want? I know that being TG was due to an abnormality of gender development in utero. What is worse, all the anxiety and depression that will arise from all of the above or the anxiety and depression from denying my gender identity? Sounds like a no win situation. Don't tell me it will get better. Reality is reality.

I am sorry that you are finding the fears overwhelming.

Quote from: karenk1959 on May 17, 2017, 06:09:00 AMWhat is worse, all the anxiety and depression that will arise from all of the above or the anxiety and depression from denying my gender identity?

Honestly?  Anxiety and depression from denying one's gender identity is much worse.  I'm not saying the other anxiety isn't bad, but not being yourself is the worst.

I had the fear pretty bad.  It is the main reason why I waited 60 years to admit to myself that I was trans.  But I found that the fear of not being myself was getting worse.  Talking with others here, everyone says the same thing: it gets worse.  Eventually, it becomes way worse than the fear of what people will say.

Once I got in touch with my real self and got to know and like myself, I discovered to my surprise that I was unstoppable.  As my planned date for coming out approached, I felt a lot of fear.  I scheduled a session with my therapist to talk about it.  She wanted to do EMDR to delve into my past and deal with the sources of the fear.  But her waiting list to book another appointment was three weeks, and I was coming out in two.  And I suddenly realized that, fear or no fear, there was no way in hell that I was going to miss that date!  It sure surprised me: I didn't know I had that kind of determination in me!  I ended up just powering through my coming out, and nothing bad happened.  I never did schedule that EMDR session.

Though I clean up well, I don't really pass.  I found it doesn't matter.  I go where I want to go and do what I want to do, and it's fine.  I realize that not everywhere in the world is as tolerant as where I live, but I am finding that the vast majority of people don't care what I look like.  They either get it or they go by the motto "When in doubt, be polite."  ANd most are more than polite; most go out of their way to be friendly.

The only negative is that the local church minister avoids eye contact with me and won't do more than grunt when I say hello.  His loss.  His parishioners are all happy to talk to me.

I, too, thought I would lose some of my family.  I was worried about one brother in particular.  When I did come out to him, he sent me a totally lovely letter praising my courage, calling me his sister, and promising love and support.  Wow!  People sometimes surprise you for the better.

I try not to put too many unrealistic expectations on myself. Women all over the world have to deal with body image, not just trans folk.
When I look at myself in a mirror I try to see past the package and embrace my feminine soul. I know I'm a female so that's what I see mostly.
Sometimes I get particularly dysphoric days, so on those days I try not to fixate on everything but instead use distraction to get through it.
Out in public is a whole other issue, there is nothing I can do to control others perception of me. But even when I presented in guy mode with a big beard, I was still teased for coming across as feminine. I kind of took it as a validation and have learned to embrace myself for who I am.

Peace and love and all that good stuff,

Sadie

I have never considered passing as a must for my Transition. I will continue to transition no matter what...I am a woman...but some days I do dispair, at these times it is becuase I don't think I will ever know what it is like to having  passing priveldge. That does not mean that people are not polite to me and on the whole treat me with respect and gender me correctly.

What I always forget is this..."Passing is between the ears"....

Passing is between the ears... but not just our own ears.  It's social, not solipsistic. 

To pass required a lot of work.  Hundreds of hours of electrolysis.  Six months of finding my voice, and several more months of training and strengthening it.  Hormones.  Facial surgery.  SRS and BAS.  That's just the basics -- there were also years of socialization to learn, and decades of memories that eventually shifted.  Now I'm unequivocally gendered correctly.

That's how I dealt with not passing.

I'll add that if you look in the before and after section here, there are some pretty amazing transitions. More maybe possible than you believe.


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If you haven't started HRT then you can't be completely sure you will not pass after you do. Estrogen causes drastic changis. I am sorry you are having such a rough time of it.

I guess the whole guy in a dress thing doesn't really bother me that much anymore.

I identify as third gender.  I prefer living full time as a woman with a female user interface, but on some level I am a guy in a dress.  Maybe because I AM A GUY.  I'm a guy who takes female hormones.  I'm a guy who speaks in a woman's voice.  I'm a guy who loves to shop for and wear women's clothes and share girl talk with other women and wear makeup and perfume.  I'm a guy who has a Y chromosome.  I'm a guy who has a 57 year history of living as a man which included all the male rites of passage into manhood.  I own it.  I earned it.

But I'm also a woman.  A transgender woman.  I was born this way.

I think Emerson said it best, "consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds."

I'm pretty optimistic I will one day pass, I've not started hormones yet, but it seems the way I deal with not passing yet is by having faith that I will, and just not trying until then, which is totally the wrong strategy, but it's where I'm at right now psychologically.

I've more or less resigned myself to not ever passing.

But I feel like it's just as well, though.  I'm constitutionally unable to go stealth, I can't keep my mouth shut, so everyone I see on a regular basis is going to know I'm trans, regardless of how I look.

So all I care about is looking enough like a woman that strangers will treat me like a woman and my friends and acquaintances will be reminded that I want to be seen as a woman.

Besides, it's not like I have this strong "I am a woman" feeling.  Inside, I'm just me.  In my soul, I have no gender.  It's just that in the world I live in, you either get treated like a man or like a woman, and, given that binary choice, I'd rather be treated as a woman.  (And I love being "Mom" to my kids!)

I'm sad to hear you are struggling with this so much.

I am not trying to be negative but if your ultimate goal is to "pass" the road ahead for you will be longer and harder than it has to be. I think a lot of us ultimately want to pass but we must acknowledge that it's a long and expensive process that isn't always readily available to everyone.

As someone who does not currently "pass" what I work on is feeling comfortable with my body as-is. It's not easy but it's all I can do while I wait for my body to change. It's keeping me going this far.

Much love <3

Karen I have to start by saying you're mighty (expletive deleted) presumptuous to tell me what I want.

Now the fact is, sure, I'd give my eye teeth to pass in the binary but nobody is offering that trade. I also can tell you I knew all of those things you say you know for yourself (can't ever be happy etc).

You say you don't want to hear anything else so I'll not offer any more advice. For me the choice is to achieve the best look I can which still passes as masculine with as many femme touches as I can muster on any given day. I still wear a beard, I'm relatively bald and for now I can't afford much femme wardrobe.

People notice my breasts and the occasional makeup and attire. As I've posted elsewhere, my happiest change since going on HRT and coming out is that women are now far more treating me as one of the tribe. This wasn't unheard of before, I've been quietly transitioning socially for 2 decades but it's very different now. Also no friends lost, I did lose some family when I came out in a limited way back in the early '00s, that's their loss is how I see it

Once I decided that ongoing dysphoria was worse than not passing I transitioned. That decision took 20 years to get to. There is no try, do or do not.

QuoteI can't imagine any of you would rather be cisgender rather than a TG woman. All of you wish you could look just like a woman with the ultimate goal of passing. Why else would you take hormones and have surgery?

Where on earth did you get these ideas?

Most TG women would kill to be a cisgender woman! Why would anyone want to go thru everything you just complained about?

HRT may seem like an exercise in vanity to you, but it goes way beyond those superficial aspects. Hormones are incredibly powerful and they affect you in ways you can't even comprehend or anticipate. Reducing them to the medical equivalent of a boob job says to me, you don't really understand what's happening here. 

What you're lacking is called self-confidence and you're confined inside the life you've created for yourself. You spent a lifetime denying who you are and creating expectations in the people around you based on those same expectations and what's acceptable. Now you want out of that cage. I can't fault you for that but they might

However, if you want the key to that cage, it's going to come at a price and part of that cost is going to be developing a coping method for the fact that you may not pass all the time if you transition. Eating crow, taking crap, being rejected, losing friends and family, along with making new friends and family, are things that we have to overcome to make the transition a reality --some more, some less. There are no shortcuts.

This is how you deal with not passing. You understand the risk and you weigh it against your internal struggle to be your authentic self and then you commit yourself to the goal --or you don't. Once you own that commitment, you will be surprised at how much you can accomplish as you travel along the passability spectrum.

So you know, there are tons of gender variant people who live happy and content lives with or without transition-related surgeries or hormones. These people are out and proud and confident about who they are. Go to a Pride event and meet some if you get a chance.

Quote from: Sophia Sage on May 17, 2017, 07:57:48 AM
Passing is between the ears... but not just our own ears.  It's social, not solipsistic. 

To pass required a lot of work.  Hundreds of hours of electrolysis.  Six months of finding my voice, and several more months of training and strengthening it.  Hormones.  Facial surgery.  SRS and BAS.  That's just the basics -- there were also years of socialization to learn, and decades of memories that eventually shifted.  Now I'm unequivocally gendered correctly.

That's how I dealt with not passing.

My point is this.... that until you decide you pass then you won't. After all the stuff you have had done at some point you made the decision that you had made enough changes and you now passed.  You also have "outside" evidence that reinforces to you daily that you pass by the way people treat you. However as is evidenced here many times where girls do pass and they don't recognise they do because they have decided they don't.

Liz

I pass (most likely) 100% at this point, but my spouse is about a 50/50.  She goes out with a 'screw it' attitude & just lets people guess & doesn't correct them.. Her voice is low, her hair thin, but she has big boobs so that throws a wrench into peoples concepts.  I get a little embarrassed being out in public, but that's my own struggle. Me? I finally got over the androgynous scaredy-cat mode and now dress fully feminine... be it a cute tshirt that shows off my shape, or a dress.  I'm finally getting to enjoy being myself, and for the most part the stares aren't the 'what is that thing' look... I've seen that look before, but never directed at me thank the gods.

Quote from: karenk1959 on May 17, 2017, 06:09:00 AM
Also, I know if I transition, I will be scrutinized and judged because let's face it, the majority of people don't get it or understand it. I

I will just say, HRT is a beautiful thing for any age

It helps with mental gender and make the brain function better.

I would love to pass as a regular woman and have my pick of boyfriends but I don't think the science is there yet.

But hey, maybe we all be undistinguishable someday  http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/16/health/3-d-printed-ovary/index.html

I do not yet pass, but I absolutely could not continue living in hiding.  I am out, and I do my best to be presentable.  Most folks are polite enough to give me the benefit of the doubt and gender me as I present, fortunately. 

Some folks in subcultures here prize 'maleness' and cannot abide the confusion I represent, and try their hardest to "Sir" me.  Their loss.

I needed to do this, and I try hard to be inoffensive and polite to others, and they generally reciprocate.

Under certain very specific conditions, I will respond to questions about being transgender, treating them as educational opportunities.  Folks soon learn not to ask prying questions of me! 

In the longer term, I do seek to pass.  I am on HRT, of course, and I dress and behave in my feminine gender presentation.  I've had speech therapy and practice constantly to try and improve.  I have requested surgery for FFS and have been approved.  (I am getting the whole package, all the options and the special undercoating. )  I don't intend to 'go stealth' and deny my nature, but it would be nice to just be "Michelle, the older woman" and not "Michelle, our token trans person."

Thank you all for your honesty and meaningful responses!

For me, this post is problematic and even a bit offensive.

The whole "I don't want to hang out with TG who look like men in dresses" smacks a little bit of internalised transphobia and shame.  I have plenty of friends who don't pass, and I'm not ashamed to share their company.  Those people are not men in dresses.  They are women.  Our ultimate human right is the possession of our own identity. The suggestion that those people cannot define their identity for themselves necessarily infringes that right. It is the height of paternalistic arrogance to tell another person what their gender shall be, as it is to tell them what their sexual orientation shall be.

I care far more about who my friends are as a PERSON than what they look like.  I don't care if you are trans/cis/NB, gay/straight/bi, or male/female/other. I don't care if you are stealth/out.  I care that you respect and value other people.  I care that you are a good listener, are empathetic, and compassionate.

If your friends only care about you whilst you fit into the binary of male or female, then those friends are pretty shallow people.

I pass almost 100% of the time, but I went through my fair share of being visibly between genders; that stage when people would call me 'maam' and 'sir', often in the same sentence.  When children asked me to my face whether I was a boy or a girl.  I wasn't particularly ashamed of it, and it wasn't really a big deal.  If people misgendered me, I'd politely correct them with a smile, and we all moved on. I opened told people I'm in the process of changing gender when they looked at me befuddled.  I'm a corporate lawyer, and when I changed my name at work, I received nothing but respect, a few hugs, and pile of unfinished work from my break.

Passing DID change the way the world treats me though.  Passing gave me a deep insight into other women's experiences.  It gave me a first hand lesson in male privilege, misogyny, and the objectification of women.  Confiding in other women about those experiences, and listening to their own, allowed me to bond with other women.  Passing allows me to live AMONGST other women.

But none of those experiences make me a woman.  Passing does not make me a woman.  Wearing a dress does not make me a woman.  The only thing that makes me a woman is when I tell you that I am one.

If you don't want to transition, that's totally fine.  But the worst thing for me would be to go through my whole life without letting the people who love me get to know the REAL me - to know the insecurities, feelings and vulnerabilities that are part of my identity.  Dying without ever having been honest with the people who love me would have been a huge mistake.  I would much rather have lived as an out and unpassable transwoman.  And most of my unpassable trans friends would have said the same.