Quote from: anjaq on May 23, 2017, 02:53:06 PM
Well if you get sirred in any situation, then that is of course very obvious. But between that and being regarded as just another woman is still a mile. At least where I live, few people would be so rude and call a person obviously presenting as female "sir". One has to look for more soft clues about the perception of other people.

I agree about the soft queues. I'm going to wax philosophical here, but I hope in generations to come the trans people won't have to conform so rigidly or the gender rules will be so loose that they will simply be accepted
For how they were born. We unfortunately are eons away from that.

Quote from: Jujubee on May 23, 2017, 02:59:15 PM
I agree about the soft queues. I'm going to wax philosophical here, but I hope in generations to come the trans people won't have to conform so rigidly or the gender rules will be so loose that they will simply be accepted
For how they were born. We unfortunately are eons away from that.

Hate to say it, Juju....but we're eons away from any of us treating each other respectfully on any consistent basis. Trans folks dont have the market cornered on being disrespected or treated with equanimity. 

Quote from: jentay1367 on May 23, 2017, 03:06:43 PM
Hate to say it, Juju....but we're eons away from any of us treating each other respectfully on any consistent basis. Trans folks dont have the market cornered on being disrespected or treated with equanimity. 

You're right JenTay! That's why my dream is to have an island where I take care of abandoned, injured or orphaned animals along with my team of robots (no humans allowed!).

Quote from: Jujubee on May 23, 2017, 03:13:11 PM
You're right JenTay! That's why my dream is to have an island where I take care of abandoned, injured or orphaned animals along with my team of robots (no humans allowed!).

A wonderful aspiration! Go get em' Sweetie!

Quote from: anjaq on May 23, 2017, 02:53:06 PM
Well if you get sirred in any situation, then that is of course very obvious. But between that and being regarded as just another woman is still a mile. At least where I live, few people would be so rude and call a person obviously presenting as female "sir". One has to look for more soft clues about the perception of other people.

Same as here. Misgendering only would happen to the most unpassable folks, and it would be regarded as rude by most people. One thing that might happen more often is to be addressed/treated in a neutral way without gendering you at all. Still this only would happen to very unpassable folks (and to some really andogynous people as well).

When I'm honest on this forum people complain and say my posts are "harsh" and they get edited by mods. Lol. People don't like honesty.

I haven't seen any FFS that didn't result in the person looking like a female.


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I've seen FFS results that .. at least to ME still flag that as 'something other' than female.  Granted they look more female on many of the pre-post, but completely female?  Not everyone.  I wish it weren't so, but it is what it is to me.  That doesn't mean I'm rude or mean or disrespectful to them, after all, they've struggled (many of them) VERY hard to get to where they are, even going through multiple operations.. but in the end I personally just don't want to have to 'deal' with ... 'what is it?' looks.  Just my 2 cents worth.

Quote from: RavenMoon on May 24, 2017, 10:40:33 AM
When I'm honest on this forum people complain and say my posts are "harsh" and they get edited by mods. Lol. People don't like honesty.

I haven't seen any FFS that didn't result in the person looking like a female.


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Quote from: Doreen on May 24, 2017, 11:32:27 AM
I've seen FFS results that .. at least to ME still flag that as 'something other' than female.  Granted they look more female on many of the pre-post, but completely female?  Not everyone.  I wish it weren't so, but it is what it is to me.  That doesn't mean I'm rude or mean or disrespectful to them, after all, they've struggled (many of them) VERY hard to get to where they are, even going through multiple operations.. but in the end I personally just don't want to have to 'deal' with ... 'what is it?' looks.  Just my 2 cents worth.

Yeah, sometimes there are subtle cues that lead us to question someone's sex. I think we've all seen people we aren't sure about.

But I think just from looking at the face, FFS does what it's set out to do. But you do see some people that either left some features alone, or didn't want anything to drastic because they don't want to look like a different person. I think that defeats the whole purpose!

And of course it's very expensive. And some faces need more work than others.

Also feminization and beautification are separate things. I know for myself that I'm considered an attractive guy, even though I dislike those aspects of my face. My goal with FFS is to be able to walk down the street and not look like a man in a dress. That's my biggest fear. After that, will I be attractive? I at least hope I'm cute. Lol. I'm not expecting to look like a model. But I've done my own virtual FFS (I'm a professional photo editor) and I'm pretty happy with a smaller nose and a few other tweaks. I'll never have full lips, but I dislike the way lip augmentation looks.

I'm never rude to people. But like when someone that hasn't had FFS asks if they pass, and they have a big honking male nose, I'll politely point that out. And that's the opposite of "->-bleeped-<-" which I refuse to do. It doesn't help anyone if you lie to them.


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You did make some very valid points there, as I usually ask the ones that said they had FFS and they claim to be getting a separate procedure later, or liked their 'square jaw' or some other crap that is a red herring.  Yes I totally agree.. walk down the street (or in my case the middle of the VAMC) and not have a single problem Other than guys staring at your butt or something of course.

Quote from: RavenMoon on May 24, 2017, 11:43:31 AM
Yeah, sometimes there are subtle cues that lead us to question someone's sex. I think we've all seen people we aren't sure about.

But I think just from looking at the face, FFS does what it's set out to do. But you do see some people that either left some features alone, or didn't want anything to drastic because they don't want to look like a different person. I think that defeats the whole purpose!

And of course it's very expensive. And some faces need more work than others.

Also feminization and beautification are separate things. I know for myself that I'm considered an attractive guy, even though I dislike those aspects of my face. My goal with FFS is to be able to walk down the street and not look like a man in a dress. That's my biggest fear. After that, will I be attractive? I at least hope I'm cute. Lol. I'm not expecting to look like a model. But I've done my own virtual FFS (I'm a professional photo editor) and I'm pretty happy with a smaller nose and a few other tweaks. I'll never have full lips, but I dislike the way lip augmentation looks.

I'm never rude to people. But like when someone that hasn't had FFS asks if they pass, and they have a big honking male nose, I'll politely point that out. And that's the opposite of "->-bleeped-<-" which I refuse to do. It doesn't help anyone if you lie to them.


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I think maybe one reason for bad results from ffs is that people don't take time to research their doctor. It's understandable.  You've waited so long to be yourself you get antsy. I was kind of like that with my FMS. But I wanted good results so I chilled out and did some research.  A doctor who is board certified and has a good reputation is important but it doesn't guarantee good results. One guy I talked to is well known here in Florida for doing SRS procedures. But most of his work was on MtF. So I kept looking until I found someone who specialized in FtM procedures. I asked for pictures of his work and asked to speak with people he had worked on who were willing to share their experiences with his work. He did my top surgery and my facial maculinization.  This stuff is major expensive.  Thankfully my dad paid for mine. If you are gonna drop that kind of money then don't be afraid to ask questions, ask for pictures and most important ask to talk to people they have worked on. If they don't wanna give you anyone then don't let them do your surgery. People who are real happy with their cosmetic surgeries are usually happy to talk to others who are thinking about using their doctor.  If the doctor you are considering can't give you at least six people willing to talk about their procedures then I'd take that as a big warning sign.
Lucas

Quote from: RavenMoon
When I'm honest on this forum people complain and say my posts are "harsh" and they get edited by mods. Lol. People don't like honesty.

I haven't read anything from you I could consider harsh so maybe I'm missing some events. IMHO it's not like people don't like honesty, its just (the most) are trapped in their own bucles of insecurity. So if you say them they look great, you're being a cheerleader, humoring and ->-bleeped-<-. If you say they don't look good then you're pretty harsh wich hurts them and you get drama because they hadn't read what they wanted. Problem? Not even up to you girl, it's just their loop.

Even if they got a holly molly titanic amount of verifiable and true validation, they'll be always facing some degree of uncertainy (thats pretty much how logic, brains, and that stuff work) so the endless loop of self-doubting and questioning would start again.

Quote from: Wednesday on May 24, 2017, 05:24:45 PM
I haven't read anything from you I could consider harsh so maybe I'm missing some events. IMHO it's not like people don't like honesty, its just (the most) are trapped in their own bucles of insecurity. So if you say them they look great, you're being a cheerleader, humoring and ->-bleeped-<-. If you say they don't look good then you're pretty harsh wich hurts them and you get drama because they hadn't read what they wanted. Problem? Not even up to you girl, it's just their loop.

Even if they got a holly molly titanic amount of verifiable and true validation, they'll be always facing some degree of uncertainy (thats pretty much how logic, brains, and that stuff work) so the endless loop of self-doubting and questioning would start again.

That's absolutely true. It's a "can't win situation" or a "don't shoot the messenger" thing.
What could go wrong with walking through a minefield?

Quote from: jentay1367 on May 24, 2017, 06:18:18 PM
What could go wrong with walking through a minefield?

Pretty much the same thing thats gonna eventually happen if you got stuck and don't walk through it: you'll end up resting six feet under. Sadly that's the only thing you can really take for granted