maybe i'm not qualified to answer but since i don't "pass", i'm uncomfortable around pretty much everyone because i'm constantly read and treated as female.  even if i were to "come out" to them, i don't believe for one second that they would honestly view me as male just because i said so.  i know what i look and sound like and i can't change it overnight, so nothing doing.  i'll just have to be uncomfortable for a while, i guess, and see how it goes in the distant future.

Quote from: meatwagon on December 09, 2017, 06:16:28 PM
maybe i'm not qualified to answer but since i don't "pass", i'm uncomfortable around pretty much everyone because i'm constantly read and treated as female.  even if i were to "come out" to them, i don't believe for one second that they would honestly view me as male just because i said so.  i know what i look and sound like and i can't change it overnight, so nothing doing.  i'll just have to be uncomfortable for a while, i guess, and see how it goes in the distant future.

Sure you are qualified to! Can relate so much.....!!!

Quote from: Corax on December 08, 2017, 07:34:29 PM
Yes, of course I feel comfortable around "cis" men. The only difference between me and "cis" men is that I've got betrayed over a decent body at birth and had to live with this loathsome bad excuse of a body instead, nothing else.

My friends were always "cis" males from childhood on and still are and my friends never saw me as a chick anyway and treated me as one of them even before I started my transition or even had any knowledge about what a transsexual was and that the option to transition existed. I have the same male mindset, way of thinking and behaviour a "cis" man has. And there are a lot "cis" men who share my interests, sense of humour etc. whereas females almost never do and when they do they focus on a completely different aspect of the subject.
As a man it is natural for me to think and behave like a male, if I weren't neurologically male I wouldn't be transsexual to begin with and being neurologically male usually comes with understanding other males better than females. 
I always preferred to surround myself with men and was a part of male dominated fields and subcultures.

Hence I think the idea of transmen having had a female "socialisation" is complete rubbish. One can't socialise a man as a woman, one can try to force that upon them but it will fail completely regardless and it won't have any effect. I socialised myself in a masculine way!

I honestly didn't enjoy the company of "cis" women groups (was forced and sorted into them at school etc.) at all though even though their circus never intimidated me in anyway but I have always felt like an alien in their company, or at least someone who doesn't know their weird language. I usually don't understand their mindset and way of thinking, I don't understand their ways of socialising, they are way too emotional for me on average, I usually don't share any interests with them, there are often no talking points and I find their way of communication indirect and way too complicated. There just aren't any similarities whatsoever. I also dislike that touchy-feely stuff and I despise their gossiping and their disloyalty amongst their friends as well as the backstabbing, the scheming and the slandering going on in their rows.  In short: I absolutely don't get "cis" women and have never understood them and they remain a complete mystery to me and most likely always will.

Me too.
For me, the hardest most dysphoria-inducing phase of my life has been stay home parenting because it is a very cis female dominated world and when I'm in it people assume I'm a cis woman...
Prior to having kids, everyone in my life treated me like the guy I am. If that had continued, I might never have felt the need to medically transition... when I had kids even people who had previously treated me like a guy started treating me like a woman... it just about destroyed me.

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Quote from: arice on December 09, 2017, 06:38:36 PM

Prior to having kids, everyone in my life treated me like the guy I am. If that had continued, I might never have felt the need to medically transition... when I had kids even people who had previously treated me like a guy started treating me like a woman... it just about destroyed me.

Oh, shoot  !!! Sounds bad.

Quote from: PurpleWolf on December 09, 2017, 06:43:59 PM
Oh, shoot  !!! Sounds bad.

Parenting outside the established social binaries is always a challenge... over time I have managed to encounter a variety of people who are doing it from a variety of angles so that helps.

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Quote from: arice on December 09, 2017, 06:38:36 PM
Prior to having kids, everyone in my life treated me like the guy I am. If that had continued, I might never have felt the need to medically transition... when I had kids even people who had previously treated me like a guy started treating me like a woman... it just about destroyed me.

That is completely different from my experiences though. Regardless of how my friends treated me I always had severe dysphoria due to that anatomy, I just didn't know what the reason was nor did I know that there was an option to change this and that one could actually transition. I didn't even know what a transsexual was or that transpeople existed. I grew up in a rather intolerant small-town where the vast majority of people weren't aware that this was even a thing and where they treated everyone who was different somehow badly.
If I had known what really was wrong with me I would have immediately started to work towards medically transitioning and by doing so would have spared me many years of misery and suffering from this. Unfortunately I didn't know though and have wasted way too many years of my life living with that bad excuse of a body.

Quote from: Corax on December 10, 2017, 06:00:26 PM
That is completely different from my experiences though. Regardless of how my friends treated me I always had severe dysphoria due to that anatomy, I just didn't know what the reason was nor did I know that there was an option to change this and that one could actually transition. I didn't even know what a transsexual was or that transpeople existed. I grew up in a rather intolerant small-town where the vast majority of people weren't aware that this was even a thing and where they treated everyone who was different somehow badly.
If I had known what really was wrong with me I would have immediately started to work towards medically transitioning and by doing so would have spared me many years of misery and suffering from this. Unfortunately I didn't know though and have wasted way too many years of my life living with that bad excuse of a body.

Yes. My expression of similarity was for our relationships with cis men and women.
While I have some body dysphoria (primarily centered around my chest), my worst dysphoria is social. I have a tendency to dissociate from my body and as long as I was treated like a guy I tended to forget that my body wasn't like other men's. Seriously (Most people have trouble believing that).
I knew as a kid that I "didn't feel like a girl" but I also grew up in a small town and did not have the words to describe it effectively. I do wish that I had transitioned earlier but I recognize that I wouldn't be who I am had I done so.

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I´m fine around cismen.

Before I was passing I often felt threatened by them. I would get "stared down" by some, to see if they could figure me out, I suppose.

Now I only feel out of my element when I´m already feeling insecure/not confident.
Cismen feel this way among other men too, from time to time. They just don´t voice it.

I'm generally not too uncomfortable around cis people, but cis guys can rub me the wrong way especially when I don't completely pass. Usually because, once I correct them, I tend to get laughed at and then hit on again anyways.

Quote from: PidgeTPN on December 11, 2017, 11:34:47 AM
I'm generally not too uncomfortable around cis people, but cis guys can rub me the wrong way especially when I don't completely pass. Usually because, once I correct them, I tend to get laughed at and then hit on again anyways.

I have a CIS boyfriend and my most loved,  loved ones are both CIS guys so you would assume I am comfortable around CIS guys. But no, I'm not. Guys are always friendly to me now but it wasn't at all like that before transition. The horrible way guys at school treated me has had a lasting effect on me. If I find myself near a group of guys I get pretty bad anxiety.  If that group is made up of younger guys it's even worse. I will take any detour rather than approach or walk through a group of guys. I have really tried to get over that but I can't.  It's a totally involuntary reaction, I can't help becoming extremely anxious. I'm sure a lot of trans people are the same as well as anyone who was bullied and abused by guys when they were young.

I was harassed for years by guys when I was young, and their ringleader was a girl. She wanted the entire block and all of her male relatives and cousins to beat the crap out of me whenever I ventured out of the driveway.

If I ever meet her in the street (highly likely, but still not impossible) I'm going to have one of those Kill Bill red flashing freeze frames and hopefully I won't reflexively separate her head from her body. 

That said I don't get nervous around either sex as a rule. It's what those people are doing that I will pay attention to. If they're in a pack and showing body language suggesting they're out for trouble and looking for targets, then sure. 

Yes, very. I was never uncomfortable around them before so much as annoyed--the ever-present and entirely unreciprocated sexual tension got old quick--but that has faded. I've always been a competitive person so the one-upmanship males frequently engage in doesn't bother me in the slightest.
No experiences in my life have given me any reason to be wary of cisgender men but I'm quite anxious in large groups of women. As much as I didn't know what to do with myself before around them, I especially have no clue now.

A couple months back one of my fiancée's friends wanted us to come with her to this Halloween party. She said a couple people were meeting her at her condo other than us but didn't really specify. It ended up being about six women because three of their boyfriends dipped out--so eight women in total--and I was the only guy.
I was sweating .950 caliber bullets.

Quote from: Viktor on December 11, 2017, 01:49:19 PM
I was harassed for years by guys when I was young, and their ringleader was a girl. She wanted the entire block and all of her male relatives and cousins to beat the crap out of me whenever I ventured out of the driveway.

That sounds bloody awful!!! I'm so sorry for you. Yeah... and they say childhood is the happiest time of one's life... I highly disagree. Never faced so many bad situations as an adult as I did as a kid!

Quote from: Viktor on December 11, 2017, 01:49:19 PM
If I ever meet her in the street (highly likely, but still not impossible) I'm going to have one of those Kill Bill red flashing freeze frames and hopefully I won't reflexively separate her head from her body.

Know what you're talking about........ 

Quote from: Viktor on December 11, 2017, 01:49:19 PM
That said I don't get nervous around either sex as a rule. It's what those people are doing that I will pay attention to. If they're in a pack and showing body language suggesting they're out for trouble and looking for targets, then sure.

Right! I'm not a violent person at all... I 100% avoid trouble.

Quote from: Julia1996 on December 11, 2017, 01:24:25 PM
I have a CIS boyfriend and my most loved,  loved ones are both CIS guys so you would assume I am comfortable around CIS guys. But no, I'm not. Guys are always friendly to me now but it wasn't at all like that before transition. The horrible way guys at school treated me has had a lasting effect on me. If I find myself near a group of guys I get pretty bad anxiety.  If that group is made up of younger guys it's even worse. I will take any detour rather than approach or walk through a group of guys. I have really tried to get over that but I can't.  It's a totally involuntary reaction, I can't help becoming extremely anxious. I'm sure a lot of trans people are the same as well as anyone who was bullied and abused by guys when they were young.

A lot of cis women are that way around men. Many of them have been completely confused by the fact that I never have been (I find groups of women far more terrifying).

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I really don't care. I just ignore them like I ignore most of other people. Cis guys never caused me any negative feeling, I see them like human beings.

For me, yes and no.

Yes as in, cis guys who don't think to much into it and just sees you as one of the guys.
No as in, cis guys who want to accept you, but still sees you as a girl who wants to be a guy and they're always slipping up or make you feel weird or act weird when you get involved into the conversation with other guys.

I deal with both all of the time.

For me it leans more to me being uncomfortable around cis guys because though I do pass most of the time,
It's usually another cis guy who <edited by moderator> that up.

For example at my job being that it's soley technology based, it's mostly bro white boy types that work there.
Whenever a customer ask to speak to me and say him or Dylan, one guy will go

"Oh yeah she's over there!". I don't think he means it, and he is trying but my job sucks really bad at pronouns with the exception of like 3 guys.
Even my supervisor who is female sucks but she treats me like a guy still so it's not as bad.

One guy will go between he and she and confuse the hell out of the customer.

I've been included in their conversations and when I add input they exclude me right back out.
So in a way I am very uncomfortable around cis guys to an extent.

i'm pretty uncomfortable around cis guys unless theyre friends. i mostly worry about them finding out and possible transphobia, also worrying that i act different... i know no one really cares how i act and i can get along ok with cis guys but i'm just afraid of being found out or misgendered.
i'm definitely most comfortable among other trans people because i know it won't be a problem. also i'm definitely more comfortable now than before presenting male, even if there are new things to worry about


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I think I was uncomfortable when I first transitioned but not anymore. One thing I know is that not all cis men are stereotypical alpha males waiting for an opportunity to physically or verbally assault anyone they deem weak or inferior. They are all individuals like anyone else. So it's not about cis men for me, it's about personality, values, interests, worldview, etc. As with anyone else if I have stuff in common I'm cool. If not it's not so much that I am uncomfortable I'm just not interested in being around them.

There are plenty of thoughtful and open minded cis guys out there. The conversations I've had with them about being trans and masculinity are some of the best I've had because they open up about their own struggles living up to an impossible standard.

I am heterosexual so with straight cis guys the commonality of liking the ladies can be a good equalizer also. Not sure how that is on the other side of the aisle.

When you are comfortable with yourself it shows and all people react to that positively. If you are unsure and insecure, well yea, it's gonna be tough interacting because it is being picked up on and in turn people may act different around you which is what you wanted to avoid in the first place. So it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. That's not to say I'm totally confident all of the time myself. I'm particularly insecure about the size of my hands and when shaking a cis guy's hand I am aware of the size difference though they don't notice at all.

Quote from: SeptagonScars on November 26, 2448, 06:31:14 AM
I feel far less comfortable around other trans people, and the "why" is kinda tricky to explain cause it's a bit ironic, but... I often feel tense around other trans people irl cause I'm scared of saying something too blunt that would offend them or be seen as insensitive. When that does happen I feel bad and get even more tense around them. It just happens that the words and terms that come out of my mouth irl can be interpreted as triggering or even transphobic, but it's the language I'm used to and prefer for myself with no ill intent, and it just slips out at this point. Of course it doesn't apply to everyone though, and I'm not avoiding anyone no matter what gender cis or trans. But yeah, in general I feel the most comfortable around cis men and the least around other trans people cause of good and bad experiences in real life.

THIS. RIGHT. HERE.

I feel very uncomfortable around other trans people for the same reason. This is blunt but we as a community are so uber sensitive about everything and I get tired of it. Everything is offensive, everything is triggering. I can't even use accurate terms to refer MY OWN BODY pre-transition without being scorned. I've no idea how people make it in this world!

Socially interacting with trans men is like pulling teeth to me compared to cis men because so much awkwardness and insecurity on their part. Before anyone blasts me I am not saying trans men don't have a valid reason for being so but it's still taxing.

Quote from: CMD042414 on December 20, 2017, 08:21:45 AM
Quote from: SeptagonScars on November 26, 2448, 06:31:14 am

I feel far less comfortable around other trans people, and the "why" is kinda tricky to explain cause it's a bit ironic, but... I often feel tense around other trans people irl cause I'm scared of saying something too blunt that would offend them or be seen as insensitive. When that does happen I feel bad and get even more tense around them. It just happens that the words and terms that come out of my mouth irl can be interpreted as triggering or even transphobic, but it's the language I'm used to and prefer for myself with no ill intent, and it just slips out at this point. Of course it doesn't apply to everyone though, and I'm not avoiding anyone no matter what gender cis or trans. But yeah, in general I feel the most comfortable around cis men and the least around other trans people cause of good and bad experiences in real life.

-----

THIS. RIGHT. HERE.

I feel very uncomfortable around other trans people for the same reason. This is blunt but we as a community are so uber sensitive about everything and I get tired of it. Everything is offensive, everything is triggering. I can't even use accurate terms to refer MY OWN BODY pre-transition without being scorned. I've no idea how people make it in this world!

Socially interacting with trans men is like pulling teeth to me compared to cis men because so much awkwardness and insecurity on their part. Before anyone blasts me I am not saying trans men don't have a valid reason for being so but it's still taxing.

Haha, wanted to comment on that one myself  !

Well, I can't say I have first hand experience since haven't ever met another trans person in my life! But what I've seen on TV, some (especially trans guys) act weird & awkward, yes...  In a socially awkward way.....

And I tend to have a more 'cis guy' way of thinking, if you know what I mean.... So sometimes what I think or say it comes to my mind some trans people might totally be offended by this...

Of course every person is different. And this does not apply to all. And I don't avoid anyone either.

But it's funny you two should say that coz that's something I've paid attention to myself! Like - 'I would be totally weirded out/feel uncomfortable to be around this guy' for example  ! No offense! On anyone.