"Moni, I am going to argue that normalization is just another word for living your life." Tia Anne quote.

Thank you Anne! My distinction is physically yes, mentally no. After you transition, you wear appropriate clothes, you do things on the outside that jive with you being normalized in all visible respects. The place where I see a distinction between living your life and normalization is mentally and emotionally. My goal here is to explore the mental process of the transition mentality fading away and catching up to a mental state where most everything is normal.  (Semantically it could be  argued that living life is a process but that is not my focus here.) This happens differently for different people. I think a large part of it is repetition. I feel very much normalized at work since I go there as Moni, interact as Moni, am accepted as Moni. When I went to work after first presenting, I was living my life, yeah, but it wasn't normalized. It didn't feel natural yet, as it was so new. It's not even specific to being trans. If I returned to work after an accident and was in a wheelchair it would take a  while for it to feel natural or 'normalized.' Of course, there are incidents at work where I feel kind of lost still. I am still exploring the different dynamic of talking to guys. I have certain conversations especially with younger woman where I am at a loss as to what I have to contribute.
   Sadie, you mentioned wanting a wing woman going into a bar. Anne, you mentioned  taking someone with me if I didn't feel comfortable doing certain things. I get that. I guess I would say that if it is just a comfort thing of having someone along, that is part of living life. If the thought process is, "How do I fit in as a new woman? How do I act or respond to people as the new me?" Well, that is normalization or lack of it.
   I don't know, pre-transition these are things I wondered about. What is it like once you are living as 'new you.' Are you terrified? How quickly do you adjust to the new reality? I never saw a lot of talk about it. Much of what is on this site is wrestling with dysphoria, transition steps, coming out, etc. I thought it would be nice to talk a little about after the transition fireworks go off. What do transitioners have to look forward to. I mean like Steph said, it is good that I stuck around after earning the right to relax and move on. Well, I am still normalizing my life. I am not hesitant to admit it. I am still in my process. Isn't that worth the time to talk about some? Well I hope anyway.
   Thank you ladies, I hope you and others will continue to add to this. Come one, come all! Now Sadie, I didn't mention lingerie this time. lol
Moni

Dear Moni - thank you for initiating this thread and keeping it moving. It is invaluable to me as someone early in the process (although very long in the knowing who I am). As an experimentalist, my approach has been to try something, see how I respond, then either take a step forward or step back. Tia Anne and Deb have been catalyst in my experimentation for moving into the public arena.

A major question in the process has been « when I get to the other side of this process will if find the contentment (normalization) that I have hoped for, or will it have been an illusion (grass is greener on the other side) and I will find that have disrupted the lives of those around me and left a trail of damage without seeing a net improvement? ». From those that I know personally, the answer is that there is a net positive, but I am always curious to see what others experience.

Thanks again, Anne


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Quote from: anne_indy on February 18, 2018, 11:07:27 AM
Dear Moni - thank you for initiating this thread and keeping it moving. It is invaluable to me as someone early in the process (although very long in the knowing who I am). As an experimentalist, my approach has been to try something, see how I respond, then either take a step forward or step back. Tia Anne and Deb have been catalyst in my experimentation for moving into the public arena.

A major question in the process has been « when I get to the other side of this process will if find the contentment (normalization) that I have hoped for, or will it have been an illusion (grass is greener on the other side) and I will find that have disrupted the lives of those around me and left a trail of damage without seeing a net improvement? ». From those that I know personally, the answer is that there is a net positive, but I am always curious to see what others experience.

Thanks again, Anne


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Anne, there is a lot of wisdom in that short post of yours. First having Tia Anne and Deb, the two crazy old ladies (Tia's words, not mine) as your 'in public' catalyst is smart. They are awesome. I love the idea of you experimenting and watching how you react. So smart! I can very much relate to not knowing early on the value of what I was endeavoring to do. A big part of me moving forward was knowing that good outcomes were possible. Happy trans stories don't get a lot of press in the US especially a few years back. Also thank you for writing, it is good to know that there is value for others in this effort.

Just a word here. I would say that  this thread perhaps isn't for everyone.  If you are reading it and find it unrelatable because your path is different than a full transition, there is no disrespect intended here. I would say that a good friend of mine, Denni, started a thread about her transition that I believe is of much value on this site. I have heard many say something like 'full transition or no transition.' I hope people will go to the "Red Headed Step Child" thread and share about their less visible or less total transitions. There are multiple solutions to coping with dysphoria, all of which can be quite valid.
Moni
Now Girl, run with it.

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 18, 2018, 09:18:08 AM
   
   I don't know, pre-transition these are things I wondered about. What is it like once you are living as 'new you.' Are you terrified? How quickly do you adjust to the new reality? I never saw a lot of talk about it. Much of what is on this site is wrestling with dysphoria, transition steps, coming out, etc. I thought it would be nice to talk a little about after the transition fireworks go off. What do transitioners have to look forward to. I mean like Steph said, it is good that I stuck around after earning the right to relax and move on. Well, I am still normalizing my life. I am not hesitant to admit it. I am still in my process. Isn't that worth the time to talk about some? Well I hope anyway.
   Thank you ladies, I hope you and others will continue to add to this. Come one, come all! Now Sadie, I didn't mention lingerie this time. lol
Moni

Moni, you are asking about life as "the new me", so here is a snap shot that addresses a few of your ponderings.

Deb and I are in the middle of a two week road trip. It started a week ago last Friday with the two of us driving to Las Vegas. We spent five days on the strip, people watching, eating, bling shopping, catching an Elton John show (awesome!), etc.; just being an eccentric pair of old ladies. We enjoyed the opportunity to meet with Cassi for dinner one night. No biggies as far as being transgender stood out. We just spent the week as a pair of ladies, happily married to each other and no one seemed to notice that one of us happened to be transgender. We did hit Victoria's Secret to pick up a couple of items (had to include a lingerie comment). I did cross off a new first time thing by buying a new bathing suit, I love the fit and look but no pictures until I wear it on a beach somewhere. One of the biggest joys for me since coming out is getting out into the world, either with Deb or by myself and interacting with others. Before, I was a loner, now I find myself to be a very social (individual or small group interactions) person. Heading out on my own for a bit of shopping, a cup of coffee or bite to eat does not bring up any trepidation but happy anticipation. This is a change that Deb is happy to see in me.

This week is different, we are currently spending the night in Amarillo on our way to the Dallas area for another all day electrolysis session. Driving through west Texas with a burgeoning beard while wearing a cute skirt and top does try my comfort zone considerably. It gets easier each trip that I make down here but it will never be easy. Walking into the hotel to check in and willfully accepting the recognition and implied judgement of the clerk is hard for me but it is part of the life that I have chosen.

So what is left that I am considering working on; getting more comfortable being out and me, my voice will need constant focus to keep it where it does not draw too much attention, I still get read from time to time so I am beginning to consider if ffs will reduce that, I am finding that I am really liking spending time in safe environments with members of my own tribe that I can talk with freely without worry of judgement. Other than that, keep on getting crazier and more eccentric.

Tia Anne

Been thinking! Uh oh! Yeah been thinking about my transitioned life lately. I had a brief time recently where I was lamenting not having been born female. Something will spark a thought and it kind of hits. It is rare though, well, now it is. Before transition, "->-bleeped-<-et a bout it!" It was bad. More often now, I go through my days and think less and less about being trans. My voice  tends to bring that reality back more than anything. I think on a 'passing by people in the hallways' basis, I am passing pretty well. On a beautiful springlike day here on the east coast, I am more likely thinking how lucky I am to be living female. In a humorous exchange, a friend at work asked me if I had any hair on my legs. I am open with this friend and I said I don't have much since hormones. He said that he never has had a lot of hair there. Of course I had to tease him that it was an excellent qualification to come to the "dark side" like I did. He laughed. I just started thinking though that he actually enjoys living as a guy. I don't get it at all. For me, everything is just a little sweeter, experiencing life as a girl. It's funny, but I had a bit of a flash moment on my way home tonight. I saw a little girl of 5 or 6 in a frilly little dress looking up intently at her mother. In that second, I thought, there is no way she is going to appreciate being female more than I do.

Quote from: anne_indy on February 18, 2018, 11:07:27 AM

A major question in the process has been « when I get to the other side of this process will if find the contentment (normalization) that I have hoped for, or will it have been an illusion (grass is greener on the other side) and I will find that have disrupted the lives of those around me and left a trail of damage without seeing a net improvement? ». From those that I know personally, the answer is that there is a net positive, but I am always curious to see what others experience.

Thanks again, Anne


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Anne,
   It may only apply to my life, but I think rather than disrupting a lot of lives, my transitioning has brought a lot of good to people. People need to be challenged, have there horizons widened. It isn't always pretty, but I see so much good that has happened to others as a result of my situation. My story  has forced a lot of people to think more tolerantly than they would have. Not to give credit to me, I only did what I need to, but this has made folks become better people.

Tia Anne,
   Wow, so many Ann's and Anne's. lol Thank you for sharing Sweetie. I can now go a week without shaving. I have to wait for the growth cycles to finish up, but my face is finally smooth.  I wonder how long before I forget how it felt to have a beard. I already forgot what it is like to have Clyde, were it was positioned, what it looked like. Funny how the brain adapts.

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 21, 2018, 04:46:57 PM
It may only apply to my life, but I think rather than disrupting a lot of lives, my transitioning has brought a lot of good to people. People need to be challenged, have there horizons widened.

I knew before I started transitioning that this had the potential to disrupt lives.  Well, only fair, I figured, seeing how disrupted my life was up to that point.

But in reality, while I surprised a few people, I disrupted no one's life.  I threw them a curve ball and they caught it.  I have probably broadened a few horizons.

I broadened one yesterday.  There is one elderly lady who is an infrequent drop-in at the weekly community coffee gathering.  I know she was at the meeting last year when I came out, but she might not have seen me since.  And I was in boy mode that time, so she might not have seen me properly dressed.  Whether she didn't hear me back then, or whether she just forgot, she greeted me in the parking lot with, "Hi, <deadname>."  I did correct her, because knowing my proper name is a necessity, but I didn't give her a hard time about it.  She's older than dirt, so that earns her some slack.  Hopefully, my girl mode presentation was feminine enough to make a lasting impression.

Quote from: KathyLauren on February 23, 2018, 06:57:23 AM
I knew before I started transitioning that this had the potential to disrupt lives.  Well, only fair, I figured, seeing how disrupted my life was up to that point.

But in reality, while I surprised a few people, I disrupted no one's life.  I threw them a curve ball and they caught it.  I have probably broadened a few horizons.

I broadened one yesterday.  There is one elderly lady who is an infrequent drop-in at the weekly community coffee gathering.  I know she was at the meeting last year when I came out, but she might not have seen me since.  And I was in boy mode that time, so she might not have seen me properly dressed.  Whether she didn't hear me back then, or whether she just forgot, she greeted me in the parking lot with, "Hi, <deadname>."  I did correct her, because knowing my proper name is a necessity, but I didn't give her a hard time about it.  She's older than dirt, so that earns her some slack.  Hopefully, my girl mode presentation was feminine enough to make a lasting impression.

Kathy,

   I really think the amount of disruption depends on environmental factors such as area of country, religious backgrounds, age etc. It varies greatly I'm sure. We were pretty lucky.

   Hey Kathy, I have really started dressing more femininely lately at work. I tended not to do that at first. I have to lift kids in my job, so no dresses. I found that some people seem to be 'dead pronouning' me less and and new people are acting less 'ify' with me since I started doing this. Wondered if you have seen any correlation. Of course, this is also more comfortable for me.
   I actually had a very different situation happen today. I was off site from my job. I had a real nice outfit on (if I do say so myself) and a guy came up and was real friendly. He was on the younger side. I kind of realized that he was really hanging around way longer than I thought he would. I started getting the feeling that he was hanging around because I was there, like in a checking me out sense. Of course, I could be totally wrong, but to someone who usually feels kind of invisible, it was definitely different and, well, nice.
Moni

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 23, 2018, 07:13:16 PM
   Hey Kathy, I have really started dressing more femininely lately at work. I tended not to do that at first. I have to lift kids in my job, so no dresses. I found that some people seem to be 'dead pronouning' me less and and new people are acting less 'ify' with me since I started doing this. Wondered if you have seen any correlation. Of course, this is also more comfortable for me.

Correlation with what?  Dressing more femininely and being gendered correctly?  I don't know.  I haven't been misgendered a lot.  When it happens, it is mostly people who know better, but just slip up.  They correct themselves immediately.  I don't really count those.

The incident with the elderly lady at coffee, might be presentation-related.  My indoor attire was definitely femme: wine-red cords, and a gray cardigan with sparkles, over a striped shirt that matched the pants.  But she saw me and dead-named me out in the parking lot, where I was wearing a winter jacket.  Personally, I think the look was still pretty femme even with the jacket, but maybe not enough to clue her in.

I don't do androgynous any more unless I am chopping firewood or something.  Even at the fire department, I'll wear T-shirt and jeans, but the T-shirt shows off my little 38As very nicely, the jeans are women's jeans with a good tuck underneath, and my sneakers have pink laces. 

My preferred presentation is a skirt and coordinating top, weather permitting.  I like to give people a lot of clues, so that hopefully they get it.  So that, even if they 'clock' me, they'll be able to figure out what I'm aiming for.

Quote from: KathyLauren on February 23, 2018, 07:51:27 PM



My preferred presentation is a skirt and coordinating top, weather permitting.  I like to give people a lot of clues, so that hopefully they get it.  So that, even if they 'clock' me, they'll be able to figure out what I'm aiming for.

Yeah, this is what I mean. Thanks!

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 23, 2018, 07:13:16 PMI have really started dressing more femininely lately at work. I tended not to do that at first. I have to lift kids in my job, so no dresses. I found that some people seem to be 'dead pronouning' me less and and new people are acting less 'ify' with me since I started doing this. Wondered if you have seen any correlation.

I think I have. I shelved the androgynous look and started dressing more femininely a while ago when I came to the conclusion that not only were my neighbors ok with the idea, they expected it. And now that the weather has gotten warmer here in the last two weeks, I've shelved the women's jeans (Including the skinny jeans) and gone to women's shorts, which show a lot more leg than I used to, and occasionally skorts and skirts, and short sleeve scoop-neck and deep v-neck tops. One of my neighbors who I had despaired of ever getting pronouns right, corrected himself from "him" to "her" in a conversation a couple of days ago. Out among strangers I haven't been misgendered anywhere except the phone and radio in quite a while.

So yeah, my advice is to dump the androgynous look wherever you can. Dress femininely and tastefully and people will respond. It all plays into the theory that people read gender in milliseconds when they see you, and if you present more feminine than masculine cues, that's how you'll be read, despite other shortcomings you may have. That's why in addition to clothing and shoes I always wear a necklace, my heart and airplane brooch, earrings, bracelets, a ring, at least minimum makeup, and fix my hair a little, even when just walking the dog. Every little bit helps, and I think I'm seeing positive results.


- Stephanie

I guess I'd consider myself socially transitioned for the most part, but what I've socially transitioned to up to others to make up their own minds about. I am just me, I've always been me only now I'm a little more honest and open about it.

I struggle with the term normalisation beyond breathing eating and pooping, everything else is fair game.
There are some things that I feel uncomfortable about but then so does every other human on the planet. We're all trying to fit in, find acceptance and purpose for our lives.

It does feel a little like a brave new world sometimes as I relearn the social etiquette of my culture. Things are different for sure, most changes are obvious, but subtle changes will only come with time, observation and awareness.

I think it's probably a mistake to think that anything about transition is binary, the social rules for teenagers are vastly different from those of the wrinklies like me. Cultural values vary all over the world and all are in a constant state of flux. The only one constant in all of this is our self awareness, our essence, our soul. Learn to cherish and share your uniqueness and you will find your place in the world:)

Not sure if this is what you this threads about, but it's where I'm at

Peace and love and all that good stuff,

Sadie

Quote from: Shy on February 24, 2018, 06:24:29 AM
.

I struggle with the term normalisation beyond breathing eating and pooping, everything else is fair game.
There are some things that I feel uncomfortable about but then so does every other human on the planet. We're all trying to fit in, find acceptance and purpose for our lives.

It does feel a little like a brave new world sometimes as I relearn the social etiquette of my culture. Things are different for sure, most changes are obvious, but subtle changes will only come with time, observation and awareness.

I think it's probably a mistake to think that anything about transition is binary, the social rules for teenagers are vastly different from those of the wrinklies like me. Cultural values vary all over the world and all are in a constant state of flux. The only one constant in all of this is our self awareness, our essence, our soul. Learn to cherish and share your uniqueness and you will find your place in the world:)

Thank you Sadie. You are right that the bottom line is accepting our uniqueness (or in my case, unique'mess' lol) whether we are trans or not. I agree. I use the term normalization to describe a part of transition where the new patterns we adopt for transition reasons no longer seem awkward, new, requiring a lot of conscious thought. For each person it is different. My idea is for the person looking forward to starting transition or early in transition to have a place to go to maybe have a window to view into what it might look like when things calm down. My first times in public, I was pretty terrified and the idea that one day it would all be every day routine was hard to imagine. Now the thought of wearing guy clothes out is hard to imagine. The tipping points are kind of the mile markers along the way. They can be events or perhaps just a moment of realizing that, "Hey it snuck up on me, but I really am in a different place now.

As for the binary thing, more mature ladies such as Steph and myself are certainly products of the time of our  upbringing. I tend to think in more binary terms for sure. I talk about dressing more femininely as does Steph, but it is our answer to things. I would never assume that for other folks. Now  that Steph, she wants everyone flying in a bi(nary) plane and won't rest til they do. lol Isn't that right Steph?

I do disagree with one thing you said. Pooping is not normal (for me.) Since my surgery, I can no longer poop without peeing. I promise not to further discuss my normalization of this  process though. (Gosh Moni, Newbies did not need to hear that!)

I have been thinking lately that I have done things this year that are new for me. Not to go into it, but I have an aversion to touching jewelry (I think an OCD thing). I pushed myself and now comfortably wear a necklace. I wear leggings, something I wouldn't do pre-surgery. Yeah, these are silly little things, but change sometimes is made up of little things. The milestones don't come every day. Was wondering if anyone wanted to share getting over a mental block of something you can now do but couldn't early on in transition. How did you get it done?
Moni

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 24, 2018, 09:24:20 AMMy first times in public, I was pretty terrified and the idea that one day it would all be every day routine was hard to imagine. Now the thought of wearing guy clothes out is hard to imagine. The tipping points are kind of the mile markers along the way. They can be events or perhaps just a moment of realizing that, "Hey it snuck up on me, but I really am in a different place now.

To paraphrase a certain lorry driver, full time is less a decision as it is a realization. It was a bit of a shock for me to find one day that the thought of putting on those boy clothes made me literally ill.

QuoteAs for the binary thing, more mature ladies such as Steph and myself are certainly products of the time of our  upbringing. I tend to think in more binary terms for sure. I talk about dressing more femininely as does Steph, but it is our answer to things. I would never assume that for other folks. Now  that Steph, she wants everyone flying in a bi(nary) plane and won't rest til they do. lol Isn't that right Steph?

Being on the Bi(nary) plane is fun. Monoplanes are what I prefer, though that has its own problems.

You're right that I consider myself binary and always have. There's no way I would try to push my views on anyone else, though. It's what works for me, and I respect whatever anyone else needs.

As for living the life, Sue and I are sitting in a restaurant near the Crystal River airport after flying in. I've been ma'amed and girled and ladied the entire time. I walked in with the expectation of being treated that way, and the nervousness is gone. I'm in that different place too now. I never expected that before GCS. So wow....

Stephanie

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 24, 2018, 09:24:20 AM
How did you get it done?
Moni

My biggest stumbling block initially was fear of the unknown, change and all the monsters from the id that hid in the shadows ready to pounce at the slightest hint of femininity that I just could not suppress any more.

I soon learned fear will never go away as it's an evolutionary response designed to send us running from a angry saber-toothed tiger that has lost it's stash of catnip. Nobody likes to feel uncomfortable and my natural state was to avoid things and hide away.
To overcome this the very first things I did after the challenges of coming out was to get a makeover in a busy public store. I was terrified, not of the makeover but of the social consequences and what it represented to stand up for myself for the fist time in years.

Of course it all went fine, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. From that point onward I had experience, I knew what it was like to embrace my fears and overcome them so it was just a case of rinse and repeat. I did end up looking like a panda after a Friday night on the bamboo juice though. Got to love drug store makeovers

I could go on talking like this for hours but eventually somewhere in all the managed chaos of the past year Sadie popped out.
Some days I feel whole and connected, others not so much. My journey started a lifetime ago, from the moment I became self aware and screwed things up to this present day I've always and always will be me.

See I wrote all this and not a single poop joke, what a good girl am I?

Peace and love and all that good stuff,

Sadie

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 24, 2018, 09:24:20 AM
As for the binary thing, more mature ladies such as Steph and myself are certainly products of the time of our  upbringing. I tend to think in more binary terms for sure. I talk about dressing more femininely as does Steph, but it is our answer to things. I would never assume that for other folks.

Yes, as one of those "mature" ladies, I do tend to think of myself in binary terms.  Attempting to think of it objectively, I know that I can never be fully binary, i.e. 100% female.  There is that little matter of 60 years of male habits.  I can reduce them, but they'll never be entirely gone.  On a sliding scale, probably 90% female and 10% male is about as close as I can actually aspire to being binary.

Quote from: KathyLauren on February 24, 2018, 02:20:37 PM
Yes, as one of those "mature" ladies, I do tend to think of myself in binary terms.  Attempting to think of it objectively, I know that I can never be fully binary, i.e. 100% female.  There is that little matter of 60 years of male habits.  I can reduce them, but they'll never be entirely gone.  On a sliding scale, probably 90% female and 10% male is about as close as I can actually aspire to being binary.

When we start defining who we are by what our limits are, it is a bad situation for our happiness. I mourn my limits once in a while but try not to dwell on the negativity it brings. I think even most cis women aren't 100% female. Kathy, you seem so well adjusted, surely you can come up with a poop joke. lol I was very disappointed in Sadie. All that time talking to Laurie and not a poop joke in sight.  As for Steph, her favorite book is Walter the Farting Dog.

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 18, 2018, 09:18:08 AM
   
"Moni, I am going to argue that normalization is just another word for living your life." Tia Anne quote.

Thank you Anne! My distinction is physically yes, mentally no. After you transition, you wear appropriate clothes, you do things on the outside that jive with you being normalized in all visible respects. The place where I see a distinction between living your life and normalization is mentally and emotionally. My goal here is to explore the mental process of the transition mentality fading away and catching up to a mental state where most everything is normal.  (Semantically it could be  argued that living life is a process but that is not my focus here.) This happens differently for different people. I think a large part of it is repetition. I feel very much normalized at work since I go there as Moni, interact as Moni, am accepted as Moni. When I went to work after first presenting, I was living my life, yeah, but it wasn't normalized. It didn't feel natural yet, as it was so new. It's not even specific to being trans. If I returned to work after an accident and was in a wheelchair it would take a  while for it to feel natural or 'normalized.' Of course, there are incidents at work where I feel kind of lost still. I am still exploring the different dynamic of talking to guys. I have certain conversations especially with younger woman where I am at a loss as to what I have to contribute.
   Sadie, you mentioned wanting a wing woman going into a bar. Anne, you mentioned  taking someone with me if I didn't feel comfortable doing certain things. I get that. I guess I would say that if it is just a comfort thing of having someone along, that is part of living life. If the thought process is, "How do I fit in as a new woman? How do I act or respond to people as the new me?" Well, that is normalization or lack of it.
   I don't know, pre-transition these are things I wondered about. What is it like once you are living as 'new you.' Are you terrified? How quickly do you adjust to the new reality? I never saw a lot of talk about it. Much of what is on this site is wrestling with dysphoria, transition steps, coming out, etc. I thought it would be nice to talk a little about after the transition fireworks go off. What do transitioners have to look forward to. I mean like Steph said, it is good that I stuck around after earning the right to relax and move on. Well, I am still normalizing my life. I am not hesitant to admit it. I am still in my process. Isn't that worth the time to talk about some? Well I hope anyway.
   Thank you ladies, I hope you and others will continue to add to this. Come one, come all! Now Sadie, I didn't mention lingerie this time. lol
Moni

Moni, this hit a chord with me.  I have been following a path that when I started was finding who I was.  HT was soon afterwards and that road I was on was a curvy road, but the name on the street sign was "Transition Way".  That's the road I'm on right now, but I feel there is a corner coming up and the one I'm on dead ends and the only way forward is to take the turn and travel on this new road.  My mindset will need to adjust to the new terrain but it will be as easy as turning on the headlights at night.  I expect that at some point I will notice it's getting close to twilight hours and my eyes will begin to adjust to the starlight above the road I'll be soon on. 
Point being, normalization is a process for anyone (and for that matter anything) that has been in a situation unnatural for them.  When they see a glimpse of who they are and they are strong and determined enough they evolve through the travels on the road to that vision.  When they reach it they will be normalized.

Not normal yet Jess 

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 24, 2018, 06:53:16 PMKathy, you seem so well adjusted, surely you can come up with a poop joke.

Me, well-adjusted?    No one has ever called me that before! 

As for poop jokes, um, okay, I'll see if I can think of some.

Quote from: HappyMoni on February 24, 2018, 06:53:16 PM
As for Steph, her favorite book is Walter the Farting Dog.

I'm out to dinner with Sue and Cassie, and they're telling me I should just ignore that, but I simply cannot let it go. I know nothing of that book, so I shall have my hero, Champion the Comedy Dog, poop on it.

Stephanie