Before I started my transition I always felt like a very attractive man, when it came to my looks and my life. But this post is mostly about my looks. Living as a gay man, appearance is a lot more important than for a straight man; since men in general are more shallow than women therefore it's part of the community to do your best to look good. Once I started transitioning I saw my good looks fade away to the point where I'm barely a shadow of what I was before... And it was very difficult for me. It still is. Looking at my old pictures, or people commenting how handsome I was before; even people who know I'm transitioning and they don't say it out of malice, it's just a fact. I can see it too and it still hurts.

Sometimes I feel super confident thinking that I still look good, just different (and some people tell me so) and I calm myself down thinking this is a process to become a beautiful woman. But then others day like today I just don't feel good enough. I'm not an attractive man anymore, I can't go back, and moving forward I don't even know if I'll be pretty (yes that is very important for me). Even if I am pretty, who would be with me? I'm turning 30 so I'm not getting any younger, I can't have children, and anyone who wants to be with me has to bare the burden of being the partner of a transgender person.

All of these insecurities become even bigger when I think about my ex. We are trying to work things out, he's a gay man who broke up with me because of my transition. But it's been so hard for both us that he finally caved in and decided to give this a try. We're not back together but we're trying. And I'm constantly feeling like I need to prove that I'm good enough or that I can give him all he wants despite not having the physique he was first attracted to, a physique that will probably keep changing thanks to HRT, or that he never signed up for this. It's just so exhausting sometimes. And please I don't wanna hear that I need to leave him or be with someone else, that is all horse crap... I'll have the same insecurities with anyone else.

How do you cope with this? I'm mostly asking to people who actually felt attractive and desired as their assigned gender, who didn't really hate their bodies. I didn't hate mine, I just had this constant noise in my head that wouldn't leave me alone! Yelling all the time inside "I want to be a woman!" That, coupled with my apathy and sadness towards everything drove me to therapy and finally to transition. And here I am... The noise is gone but it was replaced by new insecurities. Sometimes I wonder if it would've been better to just cope with being an empty shell of a man.

Anyways how do you cope with this?

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Wow, you described my situation word for word almost. I hated being viewed as a "male". It was so bad that I could never really date another gay guy because I'd want to be a girl and they'd see from the start and RUN. Coupled with other issues I have... it was awful.

We're practically the same age and I really relate to what you said probably the most out of anyone else so far in transition that I know of. It's such a terrible feeling. To see our previous physical "image" and yes beauty (men can be beautiful too, lol) slowly fade...

I just mentioned to my therapist that I don't know where I stand with dating anymore. I went from never getting a second date, to now not being sure if I'm even presentable at all. What or who am I? It's so annoying!! I'm binary I guess because honestly I just wanna be perceived female. Ok it people see me as a trans woman, fine, but I don't want to be "other" anymore.

I can't tell you what to do in your relationship but if he's gay and liked your body as a male, it sounds like a tricky situation. He's not atleast a little bisexual? I mean you're clearly a blossoming beautiful woman and any straight or bi man would be lucky to be with you. I'm harsh on myself too though and it sucks. Until it's proven to me in an obvious way I keep doubting myself.

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Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:21:48 AM
Before I started my transition I always felt like a very attractive man, when it came to my looks and my life. But this post is mostly about my looks. Living as a gay man, appearance is a lot more important than for a straight man; since men in general are more shallow than women therefore it's part of the community to do your best to look good. Once I started transitioning I saw my good looks fade away to the point where I'm barely a shadow of what I was before... And it was very difficult for me. It still is. Looking at my old pictures, or people commenting how handsome I was before; even people who know I'm transitioning and they don't say it out of malice, it's just a fact. I can see it too and it still hurts.

Sometimes I feel super confident thinking that I still look good, just different (and some people tell me so) and I calm myself down thinking this is a process to become a beautiful woman. But then others day like today I just don't feel good enough. I'm not an attractive man anymore, I can't go back, and moving forward I don't even know if I'll be pretty (yes that is very important for me). Even if I am pretty, who would be with me? I'm turning 30 so I'm not getting any younger, I can't have children, and anyone who wants to be with me has to bare the burden of being the partner of a transgender person.

Looking at your avatar, my dear sweet lady, while you don't see yourself as an attractive man any longer, what I see is that you have become a beautiful and engaging woman. Reflect, if you will, on the metamorphosis of a butterfly; a beautiful creature weaves a cocoon about itself to emerge from her chrysalis as a beautiful winged point of light.  Do not dwell on what has been "lost," look forward as your butterfly is only emerging. Speaking as one who is twice your age - and then some - I don't think I have ever known anyone who is without insecurities of one sort or another; how we cope with them is what strengthens our inner cores.

If I may surmise, your ex may also be going through something of his own identity crisis. When I started my transition journey, my wife had some fears of rejection that arose unexpectedly. She was OK with being the wife of a crossdresser but was affected by what I saw referred to on these pages a while back as being a "lesbian by marriage." Having identified for years as a gay male, he may fear being considered "straight by marriage."

Love and Peace

Susan

I was an attractive man.  I used to get asked out by men and women.  People told me they were intimidated even.  I was always uncomfortable with any of it since I did hate myself, especially my face.  I realize I won't be a beauty as a girl, but being accepted as a girl is what would help me most.  I do not have that yet, but people do accept me and my femme style so it's coming im sure.  Till then I just live day by day.  I dress femme, I wear makeup, I work on mannerisms.  I'm moving forward by surviving and being hopeful for the future.

Btw, like you I dated gay men, but the ones I liked and who wanted a relationship liked the masculine parts of me.  That immediately shut down my attraction to them.  Now I'm honest about being trans.  I'm hopeful to find a man that likes me for me.

Bari Jo

Going off of Bari Jo's comment, I have to agree. I'm wanting to be ultra femme for myself. I don't really care to pay attention to others. Being gay there was a lot to keep up with and I never could because my body was "soft" in feminine places all my life. Things that I thought I should hate, I'm now slowly starting to embrace...

As for the "straights" or general public, I care even less. With so many serious problems in this world... my appearance means nothing. I'm finally (again, slowly, thanks hrt) finding my internal peace.

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The problem I find is that before transition I didn't give a rat's about any of this, and yet I'd have no trouble landing someone just on account of being female, if that's what I wanted. Not to say I didn't care about appearance but I didn't notice it in the same way. Was numb. Now I'm not, now I have nerve endings in regard to that sort of thing and I don't mind looking in the mirror, or I look harder in the mirror at what I see and I care more about what I look like....

I might actually be vain, I'm not really sure, this is new for me. Caring about myself is new for me. Coping with it is strange because I don't consider myself particularly attractive, but I don't want to be unattractive... as I think if someone is unattractive it does subconsciously affect interactions with everyone (maybe only at first but it's a constant thing with every new encounter). It matters less to most men whether they are less attractive I suppose, but even if that's the case I find myself working on things a lot more to improve... but of course I can't hide and flaws behind makeup even if I wanted to, without attracting attention for that. I'm thinking about a few things I might have done, finances permitting, although they'd be minor adjustments. I don't think I'm ugly, but there are things I can see that always stand out to me that maybe others barely even register, and they drive me nuts (and I want them fixed).

So part of coping with stuff like that is the fact there might be options in the future to fix them I guess. Otherwise the only coping method will be desensitization and apathy again.

As for relationships, I've been in a relationship of some form most of my adult life, it's weird adjusting to the idea of not being in one. For now though I'm not comfortable in the existing one, have to figure myself out first and I need space to do it without the look of disapproval following me or whatever. Took stock of all the flaws my partner has and that I have and that maybe we deserve a break from the intensity and all that. Some time to relax and do what I want. Not all that worried at the prospect of not being able to find someone else... I think if you meet enough people you eventually find someone. Third time's the charm, maybe. I'm not going to think about it as it just seems to lead to the same place and I do remember a time in the past when it wasn't on my mind and I didn't require it... trying to get back into that headspace and just enjoy everything else. I'm hoping I don't start to want what everyone else wants or has as it's prob way too late for any of that... trying to focus on career and basic fulfillment and maybe I might meet someone some day who clicks. But if not, just going to try and get the most out of the time left. There's still a lot to appreciate even without that for now.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:21:48 AM
Before I started my transition I always felt like a very attractive man, when it came to my looks and my life. But this post is mostly about my looks. Living as a gay man, appearance is a lot more important than for a straight man; since men in general are more shallow than women therefore it's part of the community to do your best to look good. Once I started transitioning I saw my good looks fade away to the point where I'm barely a shadow of what I was before... And it was very difficult for me. It still is. Looking at my old pictures, or people commenting how handsome I was before; even people who know I'm transitioning and they don't say it out of malice, it's just a fact. I can see it too and it still hurts.

Sometimes I feel super confident thinking that I still look good, just different (and some people tell me so) and I calm myself down thinking this is a process to become a beautiful woman. But then others day like today I just don't feel good enough. I'm not an attractive man anymore, I can't go back, and moving forward I don't even know if I'll be pretty (yes that is very important for me). Even if I am pretty, who would be with me? I'm turning 30 so I'm not getting any younger, I can't have children, and anyone who wants to be with me has to bare the burden of being the partner of a transgender person.

All of these insecurities become even bigger when I think about my ex. We are trying to work things out, he's a gay man who broke up with me because of my transition. But it's been so hard for both us that he finally caved in and decided to give this a try. We're not back together but we're trying. And I'm constantly feeling like I need to prove that I'm good enough or that I can give him all he wants despite not having the physique he was first attracted to, a physique that will probably keep changing thanks to HRT, or that he never signed up for this. It's just so exhausting sometimes. And please I don't wanna hear that I need to leave him or be with someone else, that is all horse crap... I'll have the same insecurities with anyone else.

How do you cope with this? I'm mostly asking to people who actually felt attractive and desired as their assigned gender, who didn't really hate their bodies. I didn't hate mine, I just had this constant noise in my head that wouldn't leave me alone! Yelling all the time inside "I want to be a woman!" That, coupled with my apathy and sadness towards everything drove me to therapy and finally to transition. And here I am... The noise is gone but it was replaced by new insecurities. Sometimes I wonder if it would've been better to just cope with being an empty shell of a man.

Anyways how do you cope with this?

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You're very beautiful and any man should feel lucky and honored to be your significant other. I don't think you should worry to much about finding somebody that will love you the way you are now. It's not like it used to be when I was growing up when basically gay, bi, lesbian, transgender, and all others had to stay in the closet so to speak or risk possible injury, death, or even being avoided like the plague from ignorant people who didn't or wouldn't accept someone like us. Now this is just my own personal observation, or it may be just my demographics, but it seems to me times have changed and people are more accepting nowadays. I was always pansexual myself with an attraction to men and women, including transgender women, however I think I may have had the strongest attraction to women mostly. I knew though my true gender was female. I had been with men a couple of times and now more than ever I'm finding myself becoming even more attracted to men more than I ever used to be. I'd say I'm 50/50 now with my attraction to both. Anyway just be you and you'll find a man that loves you. You are absolutely beautiful, very hot, and quite sexy. I know with your looks you have nothing to worry about. I'm quite envious myself hehe. I just wish I looked as great as you do. You got this girl lol. Skylar

Skylar

I hated being a good looking man. Being called handsome was the dysphoria inducing. I think I won't ever be much more than average looking as a women, but I don't care! I'm not a man and thats enough.

Quote from: Allison S on April 20, 2018, 08:36:18 AM
Wow, you described my situation word for word almost. I hated being viewed as a "male". It was so bad that I could never really date another gay guy because I'd want to be a girl and they'd see from the start and RUN. Coupled with other issues I have... it was awful.

We're practically the same age and I really relate to what you said probably the most out of anyone else so far in transition that I know of. It's such a terrible feeling. To see our previous physical "image" and yes beauty (men can be beautiful too, lol) slowly fade...

I just mentioned to my therapist that I don't know where I stand with dating anymore. I went from never getting a second date, to now not being sure if I'm even presentable at all. What or who am I? It's so annoying!! I'm binary I guess because honestly I just wanna be perceived female. Ok it people see me as a trans woman, fine, but I don't want to be "other" anymore.

I can't tell you what to do in your relationship but if he's gay and liked your body as a male, it sounds like a tricky situation. He's not atleast a little bisexual? I mean you're clearly a blossoming beautiful woman and any straight or bi man would be lucky to be with you. I'm harsh on myself too though and it sucks. Until it's proven to me in an obvious way I keep doubting myself.

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Hi girl. I'm glad we can relate. If you want shoot me a PM and we can text outside the forum.

No he's not bi, he's gay. But he's attracted to feminine men... Even "ladyboys" as he called them once. Just very feminine men. Not transwomen. But I don't know what type of woman I'll be... I might be androgynous or natural (no plastic surgeries) I don't know...I think there's a small chance there might be a future for us. Right now I'm just hoping it works and trying that my fears don't get the best of me.

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Quote from: Susan Baum on April 20, 2018, 10:29:50 AM
Looking at your avatar, my dear sweet lady, while you don't see yourself as an attractive man any longer, what I see is that you have become a beautiful and engaging woman. Reflect, if you will, on the metamorphosis of a butterfly; a beautiful creature weaves a cocoon about itself to emerge from her chrysalis as a beautiful winged point of light.  Do not dwell on what has been "lost," look forward as your butterfly is only emerging. Speaking as one who is twice your age - and then some - I don't think I have ever known anyone who is without insecurities of one sort or another; how we cope with them is what strengthens our inner cores.

If I may surmise, your ex may also be going through something of his own identity crisis. When I started my transition journey, my wife had some fears of rejection that arose unexpectedly. She was OK with being the wife of a crossdresser but was affected by what I saw referred to on these pages a while back as being a "lesbian by marriage." Having identified for years as a gay male, he may fear being considered "straight by marriage."

Love and Peace

Susan

That's exactly what he fears! He told me that he fought so hard to come out as a gay man that he fears now if he ends up with me as a woman, he'll be sending the message that you can actually "choose" who you like. That you can choose your sexual orientation. That's his main fear (also scared I might not turn him on, but we don't know that yet). How did you help your wife cope with that feeling? I'm trying to get him to go to therapy but he's a bit hard headed.

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Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:07:43 PM
Hi girl. I'm glad we can relate. If you want shoot me a PM and we can text outside the forum.

No he's not bi, he's gay. But he's attracted to feminine men... Even "ladyboys" as he called them once. Just very feminine men. Not transwomen. But I don't know what type of woman I'll be... I might be androgynous or natural (no plastic surgeries) I don't know...I think there's a small chance there might be a future for us. Right now I'm just hoping it works and trying that my fears don't get the best of me.

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We're on at the same time! yeah I def will message you soon. Us girls gotta stick together trying to figure out these men! Ha [emoji4]

Honestly, now that you mention his attraction to femininity in men- it makes a lot of sense. My new friend from trans support group is also dating a man (pre hrt) who's into the same as what you described. I was just telling her, that she's lucky! And her bf is accepting of her being trans and wanting to transition medically with hrt and everything. I think that's awesome!

I think on transition level dosages it's rare someone will be androg. I think womanhood is definitely within reach.

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Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:07:43 PM
<<snipped>>
No he's not bi, he's gay. But he's attracted to feminine men... Even "ladyboys" as he called them once. Just very feminine men. Not transwomen.

Quote from: Charlie Nicki on April 20, 2018, 08:10:53 PM
That's exactly what he fears! He told me that he fought so hard to come out as a gay man that he fears now if he ends up with me as a woman, he'll be sending the message that you can actually "choose" who you like. That you can choose your sexual orientation. That's his main fear (also scared I might not turn him on, but we don't know that yet). How did you help your wife cope with that feeling? I'm trying to get him to go to therapy but he's a bit hard headed.

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I know how serious this is to you but I had to smile at the "choosing" comment. Who among us doesn't choose who or what we like and who says our choices have to be cast in bronze? I used to like broccoli and detest Brussels Sprouts, now... He has spent years refining his preferences to "ladyboys," only to be gobsmacked a dose of reality: sometimes a "ladyboy" is, in reality, a lady.

TBH, I wish I could pinpoint what I did - or didn't - do to help her over her hump. During my CD days, she had gone out of her way to help mold me into who I have become. She had even realized before I that just playing the part was not enough so her fears sort of came at us out of the blue.

When this came up, she and I had been seeing different therapists and her counselor suggest we both meet with mine for a few visits to open up our dialogue. This led to frequent conversations and we both shed many a tear before she stopped fretting about what others may think and left it behind.

I wish I could do this in person... Huge Hug. 

Susan

Quote from: Susan Baum on April 20, 2018, 10:29:50 AM
Looking at your avatar, my dear sweet lady, while you don't see yourself as an attractive man any longer, what I see is that you have become a beautiful and engaging woman. Reflect, if you will, on the metamorphosis of a butterfly; a beautiful creature weaves a cocoon about itself to emerge from her chrysalis as a beautiful winged point of light.  Do not dwell on what has been "lost," look forward as your butterfly is only emerging. Speaking as one who is twice your age - and then some - I don't think I have ever known anyone who is without insecurities of one sort or another; how we cope with them is what strengthens our inner cores.

If I may surmise, your ex may also be going through something of his own identity crisis. When I started my transition journey, my wife had some fears of rejection that arose unexpectedly. She was OK with being the wife of a crossdresser but was affected by what I saw referred to on these pages a while back as being a "lesbian by marriage." Having identified for years as a gay male, he may fear being considered "straight by marriage."

Love and Peace

Susan

Hi...  I agree.  You are changing and blossoming into an incredible woman.   And you need to surround yourself with love and support.   I am going through something similar with my wife.   She is supportive and an ally, and I love her.  But I don't feel the level of support and love I need to get through this.  And it really hurts.  It's hard for her...its new and she is not attracted to women. 

I am reading a book and it describes two key themes.   One, the empathy and love gap.  And two, beyond gender Dysphoria, a chronic feeling of being home sick, without the physical home. 

The empathy gap comes from our need for love and support as our true selves.  Except gender, physical sex, sexual orientation all being different are really hard to relate to for someone who has never questioned their gender and is closed to our standard social constructs.  And even harder if you are the past lover and are not attracted to the other sex.   It hurts and we need to support each other and find people in our lives. 

Ps. The other dimension of homesick really describes how it feels, beyond gender / body Dysphoria and without the physical home.  I hurts in my chest and stomach to not be home with the real me.  And it hurts even more when people in your life suggest or imply that we should look like the man they love for them.  It feels like abuse and rejection, when you are so homesick and want to be "me". 

You are beautiful and you are not alone.  Hugs

Karen

Thanks girls. One of the things I'm struggling with is my self esteem. He's very handsome and I find him so attractive, it scares me to feel like I'm not at his level. Or that he might think so. It hurts me inside. I just have a lot of insecurities that stem from losing my looks. I don't consider myself ugly, just different to how I was before and I realize that I depended a lot on my looks. So I guess I'm also mourning my old self in a way. This is all so weird and difficult.

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Transition is remodeling.  A house jacked up while new foundations are poured, kitchen is a wreck, frightening financial decisions - and for the right person and situation, absolutely worth the pain and temporary mess. 

Some days it is difficult to see or visualize the results through all the dust and construction noise.  But the fact is, what you are doing is proof you have amazing ambition, investing in your future.  And if your past wasn't 100% horrible that's okay. 

I'm a 1963 model so maybe I am a mid-century classic, LOL.  With transition, I get to live twice. 

Quote from: Kendra on April 21, 2018, 09:38:48 AM
Transition is remodeling.  A house jacked up while new foundations are poured, kitchen is a wreck, frightening financial decisions - and for the right person and situation, absolutely worth the pain and temporary mess. 

Some days it is difficult to see or visualize the results through all the dust and construction noise.  But the fact is, what you are doing is proof you have amazing ambition, investing in your future.  And if your past wasn't 100% horrible that's okay. 

I'm a 1963 model so maybe I am a mid-century classic, LOL.  With transition, I get to live twice.

Kendra, that's an amazing analogy!! I loved it and it definitely shows how I'm feeling right now. BTW, looking forward to meeting you in August

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Quote from: Kendra on April 21, 2018, 09:38:48 AM
Transition is remodeling.  A house jacked up while new foundations are poured, kitchen is a wreck, frightening financial decisions - and for the right person and situation, absolutely worth the pain and temporary mess. 

Some days it is difficult to see or visualize the results through all the dust and construction noise.  But the fact is, what you are doing is proof you have amazing ambition, investing in your future.  And if your past wasn't 100% horrible that's okay. 

I'm a 1963 model so maybe I am a mid-century classic, LOL.  With transition, I get to live twice.

I like to think of transition like cleaning or the garage.  You have to make a big mess in the lawn before you can put stuff back nice, neat and cleaner than before.

C.N. you will be even more awesome than you are right now!  Time my friend, time.  You are young, 30? How about 60.

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Quote from: Denise on April 21, 2018, 11:36:59 AM
I like to think of transition like cleaning or the garage.  You have to make a big mess in the lawn before you can put stuff back nice, neat and cleaner than before.

C.N. you will be even more awesome than you are right now!  Time my friend, time.  You are young, 30? How about 60.

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Thanks girl. You are always a great support <3

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I agree with everyone here.
It's weird seeing my masculine facial features (besides stubborn facial hair..) dissipate before my eyes... And what will I be left with? Will feminine features even work on me? Not to brag but I was handsome (according to others).

I'm having to readjust now to see myself as attractive again. But this time I hope I'll finally see it for myself for once.

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ohhh dear, but you're gorgeous... look, bless your heart for worrying about your boyfriend, but seriously, I'm actually kinda jealous of how you look, maybe and just maybe this is an issue of knocking at the wrong door?

you know, He made quite clear He's attracted to masculine guys, and you being a pretty lady is a problem for him, but please don't make it a problem for you, if at the end he doesn't want to be with you because you're not this masculine hot man then I assure you you'll find somebody who loves you the way you are.

Pd: seriously, don't feel depressed, you have what it takes to be with whoever you want.