Hi everyone,

I'm feeling kind of down today, and I don't really have anyone else to talk to. No one in my family understands, and I'm not really close enough to any of my friends to confide in them like this, so here I am.

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here: I haven't lost anyone, or anything big like that. Actually, my problems are so minor that I feel guilty for even bringing them up. Sometimes I feel kind of embarrassed that I cry so much when I really have so many things to be grateful for. By any measure my life is objectively kind of great.

Anyways, enough disclaimers. What I wanted to ask about is: how can you learn to accept that there are things you're just never going to get back? Every time I think about my hair or my voice I break into tears. I've been doing okay by mostly avoiding thinking about it, or by being relentlessly optimistic (don't let any negative thoughts through; just look on the bright side). But sometimes I think about how I'm going to be wearing wigs for the rest of my life, or I get discouraged with my voice and think that I'll never be satisfied with it no matter how much work I put in. And then I cry and cry and cry. And I feel like a fraud, because I was just telling a couple of my friends how I've never been happier in my life (I mean, it's true, I'm just not very happy this exact moment).

I felt like I knew how to handle this once. Now I can't remember why I thought that. Sorry that this post has been so stream-of-consciousness. I just wanted to hear your thoughts on how to handle knowing that you lost something precious that you'll never get back.

To be honest, I don't think about them. 

I focus on the things I have, not on the things I don't have.  If I did that, I'd forever be depressed, which is a difficult thing to be when you're an optimist. 

I'm loving my new, deeper voice, my slowly developing (scraggly) beard and muscles that I didn't have to work out in order to get.  I'm not focusing on the fact that I'll never have a cis penis, never have my Dad teach me how to shave (he's refusing my transition), nor the fact that I might go bald someday. 

Instead, I'm living in the moment.  Enjoying the changes I'm going through so far, and researching and planning for my future top surgery.  Even though the thought of major surgery is scary, its still something I want.

I don't have time to worry about things I've lost, or may never have.  I'm too busy enjoying the things I have currently!

Ryuichi

Quote from: Angela H on December 20, 2018, 02:43:36 AM
Hi everyone,

I'm feeling kind of down today, and I don't really have anyone else to talk to. No one in my family understands, and I'm not really close enough to any of my friends to confide in them like this, so here I am.

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here: I haven't lost anyone, or anything big like that. Actually, my problems are so minor that I feel guilty for even bringing them up. Sometimes I feel kind of embarrassed that I cry so much when I really have so many things to be grateful for. By any measure my life is objectively kind of great.

Anyways, enough disclaimers. What I wanted to ask about is: how can you learn to accept that there are things you're just never going to get back? Every time I think about my hair or my voice I break into tears. I've been doing okay by mostly avoiding thinking about it, or by being relentlessly optimistic (don't let any negative thoughts through; just look on the bright side). But sometimes I think about how I'm going to be wearing wigs for the rest of my life, or I get discouraged with my voice and think that I'll never be satisfied with it no matter how much work I put in. And then I cry and cry and cry. And I feel like a fraud, because I was just telling a couple of my friends how I've never been happier in my life (I mean, it's true, I'm just not very happy this exact moment).

I felt like I knew how to handle this once. Now I can't remember why I thought that. Sorry that this post has been so stream-of-consciousness. I just wanted to hear your thoughts on how to handle knowing that you lost something precious that you'll never get back.

I took the liberty of checking your age in your profile. I think the answer to your question comes with lived experience. Eventually you learn that when we're looking back, we're unable to see the future in front of us. I can't tell you how many times I've read on these forums "I'd rather be a happy <insert gender here> despite all my flaws,  than an unhappy <insert gender here>. 

To quote the Trek of Deathstar Galactica: "Live long and prosper" 

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Ryuichi13 on December 20, 2018, 03:08:14 AM
To be honest, I don't think about them. 

I focus on the things I have, not on the things I don't have.  If I did that, I'd forever be depressed, which is a difficult thing to be when you're an optimist. 

I'm loving my new, deeper voice, my slowly developing (scraggly) beard and muscles that I didn't have to work out in order to get.  I'm not focusing on the fact that I'll never have a cis penis, never have my Dad teach me how to shave (he's refusing my transition), nor the fact that I might go bald someday. 

Instead, I'm living in the moment.  Enjoying the changes I'm going through so far, and researching and planning for my future top surgery.  Even though the thought of major surgery is scary, its still something I want.

I don't have time to worry about things I've lost, or may never have.  I'm too busy enjoying the things I have currently!

Ryuichi

Thanks Ryuichi,

You're right, focusing on other things does help sometimes. I do have a lot to be grateful for. For instance, I probably have enough money to afford the surgeries I want, and that's really exciting. My job is safe for now, and I'm making progress on my degree. In fact, I went to a coding challenge today and I had a really good time (even though I was only in the middle of the pack).

I feel a little better already. 

Quote from: Devlyn on December 20, 2018, 04:22:01 AM
I took the liberty of checking your age in your profile. I think the answer to your question comes with lived experience. Eventually you learn that when we're looking back, we're unable to see the future in front of us. I can't tell you how many times I've read on these forums "I'd rather be a happy <insert gender here> despite all my flaws,  than an unhappy <insert gender here>. 

To quote the Trek of Deathstar Galactica: "Live long and prosper" 

Hugs, Devlyn

Don't look back? I can't stop myself from thinking that I could have prevented my hair loss... I could have even prevented my voice from deepening. I knew I wanted to be a girl from way before puberty. When I was a teenager I tried to castrate myself. I keep thinking I should have tried harder...

But, yeah, then "...we're unable to see the future in front of us." I do have a lot to look forward to... I hope. I need to think some more about this.

I should definitely just go to bed now; I have appointments in the morning and I'm sure I'll feel really silly for posting this after I've had a full night's rest.

I don't know how bad your hair loss is, but if it is moderate there are some restoration options. For voice, beyond voice training there is voice feminization surgery. I realize both of these procedures cost substantial money, but they are there.

My ex and I travelled to China in 2003, and adopted our then 10 month old daughter Mia.
I came out in late 2007, and decided to transition the following year. My ex, embarrassed by me and not wanting to expose me to our daughter asked me to go away and never contact again.
There is nothing in our divorce agreement that says I can't contact my daughter, but what is there to gain by just showing up.

It has now been 10 years since I saw my daughter. I doubt I will ever see here again. She doesn't know about Nina, nor does she know that I've moved 8 hours away.
For now, I've creared a Facebook page with my old name...hoping maybe, just maybe she might look for me.

Angela, I refuse to wear a wig (am however looking into minoxidil), the path of least resistance for me has been to keep my beard and if the minoxidil works I'll reconsider the shaving thing.

I wish for some more serious ... well, structural things. I will always greive that my hips are built narrow, my vaginal cavity encircled with some very unforgiving bone structure that makes the idea of being fisted by a lover ... unlikely.

I'm sad that I have no regular lesbian lover. Today my GF from Seattle is in town, it's just a day and I'm happy to have it. I also have a date for brunch with a bi woman who I think has a lot of potential.

We play a lifelong game of chess and deal with the position on the board as it is. Our better or worse moves before don't matter, only doing what we can with the board as it is. Unlike the game, we do get to walk back certain things because our rules aren't set in stone. Walking back my hormone profile and replacing the formerly <shenis> with my lovely vagina is just one of those things.

Angela, I frequently bring to mind a great piece of wisdom from an 8th century Buddhist master:


My hair is gone, and I have a baritone voice.  It is what it is.  I wear wigs any time I am outside.  But I can change my hair colour or style in a minute flat, and look as cute or ladylike as I wish.

I don't pine for my lost hair.  It's gone and it is never coming back.  I don't have enough left to transplant.  C'est la vie.

I have taken voice lessons, and I can be a little bit convincing with my voice, though it will always be deep and husky.  I even got told by a trans woman that I had worked with for many hours that she had no idea I was trans until a mutual friend told her that she could come to me for support.

If I ever join a choir, I'll have to sing with the baritones.  Meh, probably not going to happen.

You change what you can, and accept what you can't change.  Life is too short not to have fun with whatever cards you were dealt.

I think wearing wigs would be cool, actually. Can't see how that can't be turned to an advantage/fun somehow.

Quote from: BlueJaye on December 20, 2018, 05:22:27 AM
I don't know how bad your hair loss is, but if it is moderate there are some restoration options. For voice, beyond voice training there is voice feminization surgery. I realize both of these procedures cost substantial money, but they are there.

There's nothing moderate about my hair loss unfortunately. I don't know what the standard way of measuring this would be, but I just used a tape measure and I have about a four inch ring of hair in a ring around my head. My "hairline" is receded by nearly eight inches. Thanks for trying to help though.

Quote from: Nina on December 20, 2018, 06:08:46 AM
My ex and I travelled to China in 2003, and adopted our then 10 month old daughter Mia.
I came out in late 2007, and decided to transition the following year. My ex, embarrassed by me and not wanting to expose me to our daughter asked me to go away and never contact again.
There is nothing in our divorce agreement that says I can't contact my daughter, but what is there to gain by just showing up.

It has now been 10 years since I saw my daughter. I doubt I will ever see here again. She doesn't know about Nina, nor does she know that I've moved 8 hours away.
For now, I've creared a Facebook page with my old name...hoping maybe, just maybe she might look for me.

Nina that story is so sad. I have no frame of reference for what it's like to lose a daughter so all I can say is that I'm sorry that happened. It would be wonderful if she contacted you again and maybe it will happen someday, but it definitely sounds like you're not very optimistic about it. Again, I'm sorry that happened and I know you didn't deserve it.

Quote from: SadieBlake on December 20, 2018, 06:38:21 AM
Angela, I refuse to wear a wig (am however looking into minoxidil), the path of least resistance for me has been to keep my beard and if the minoxidil works I'll reconsider the shaving thing.

I wish for some more serious ... well, structural things. I will always greive that my hips are built narrow, my vaginal cavity encircled with some very unforgiving bone structure that makes the idea of being fisted by a lover ... unlikely.

I'm sad that I have no regular lesbian lover. Today my GF from Seattle is in town, it's just a day and I'm happy to have it. I also have a date for brunch with a bi woman who I think has a lot of potential.

We play a lifelong game of chess and deal with the position on the board as it is. Our better or worse moves before don't matter, only doing what we can with the board as it is. Unlike the game, we do get to walk back certain things because our rules aren't set in stone. Walking back my hormone profile and replacing the formerly <shenis> with my lovely vagina is just one of those things.

I'm curious what you mean by the "...We play a lifelong game of chess..." statement. Did you mean us as in trans* persons or us in a more general sense?

I get what you mean when you say that, "...Our better or worse moves before don't matter, only doing what we can with the board as it is." I sometimes think in these terms. When I really think hard about why anything we think or feel matters the answer I come up with is that they influence our later actions. I can only justify crying about the past to myself if there's something I can do in the present. So, I get that I really do. I'm just trying to find some way to let go.

Quote from: KathyLauren on December 20, 2018, 07:33:34 AM
Angela, I frequently bring to mind a great piece of wisdom from an 8th century Buddhist master:

Why worry about something if you can change it?
And what is the point of worrying about something you cannot change?

My hair is gone, and I have a baritone voice.  It is what it is.  I wear wigs any time I am outside.  But I can change my hair colour or style in a minute flat, and look as cute or ladylike as I wish.

I don't pine for my lost hair.  It's gone and it is never coming back.  I don't have enough left to transplant.  C'est la vie.

I have taken voice lessons, and I can be a little bit convincing with my voice, though it will always be deep and husky.  I even got told by a trans woman that I had worked with for many hours that she had no idea I was trans until a mutual friend told her that she could come to me for support.

If I ever join a choir, I'll have to sing with the baritones.  Meh, probably not going to happen.

You change what you can, and accept what you can't change.  Life is too short not to have fun with whatever cards you were dealt.

Thanks Kathy. It sounds like you went through the same loss that I'm talking about and you're doing ok. I really appreciate the feedback. How long did it take to come to acceptance about your voice, if you don't mind me asking?

The voice does not change over night and requires we tighten things up a bit with practice. We want to start out easy so as not to strain the cords. Practice makes perfect. Here is an application that makes that perfection possible.  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.lilithwittmann.voicepitchanalyzer&hl=en

I've sent out a feeler for participants in a weekly voice training session via Skype if you would like to be included please let me know in a PM. I plan on starting in the new year.

Quote from: DawnOday on December 20, 2018, 12:04:33 PM
The voice does not change over night and requires we tighten things up a bit with practice. We want to start out easy so as not to strain the cords. Practice makes perfect. Here is an application that makes that perfection possible.  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.lilithwittmann.voicepitchanalyzer&hl=en

I've sent out a feeler for participants in a weekly voice training session via Skype if you would like to be included please let me know in a PM. I plan on starting in the new year.

I used this voice pitch analyzer, and the first time it registered that my voice was in the male range, I danced around the house! 

I know that some of the women in my support group also use it, and they rave about it as well. 

Again, practice makes perfect!

I have dreadlocks, but I've already decided that if I go bald, I'm going to buy wigs of all shapes, sizes and colors and wear them to match my outfits!  Who says that "only women can look good in wigs? 

FYI, I'm a cosplayer, which means I go to anime conventions and dress up as anime characters, so I'm used to wearing wigs.  LOOK OUT WORLD should I go bald!  I'll happily rock a blue spiked hair wig!

Ryuichi

Quote from: Angela H on December 20, 2018, 10:56:09 AM
Thanks Kathy. It sounds like you went through the same loss that I'm talking about and you're doing ok. I really appreciate the feedback. How long did it take to come to acceptance about your voice, if you don't mind me asking?

I think I accepted that progress would be limited before I even started.  I once worked as a recording engineer, so I understood enough about accoustics to know that my control over my voice would be limited.  I could conceivably raise the fundamental pitch and vary the inflection with practise, but the resonances of my throat and sinuses were structural and unchangeable.

In my voice lessons, I learned that I could not raise my pitch a full octave (the theoretical target pitch) without damaging my vocal cords.  So I settled for raising it a fifth, which put it at the bottom of the female range.  Better than nothing.  What I learned about voice inflection and speech patterns was just as valuable (and ultimately more convincingly feminine) as practising raising my pitch.

That is my philosophy in life: find out what you can do, do your best, and then accept the result.

Angela, I meant that with respect to all people and I think sometimes allowing tears to fall is an essential part of letting go of those things we can't ... or choose not to change. For me both wearing wigs and the prospect of hundreds of hours not electrolysis are cases of a bridge too far.

That's pretty much what I've been dealing with... Even after transitioning with hrt and going full time, I still struggle with bouts of dysphoria.  It's a bit of a relief in a way to hear I'm not the only one struggling with self acceptance...

I'm in nyc and people can be very vocal about things sometimes or their actions/facial expressions say it all. At the same time I'm hit on by guys and I have to worry about my safety.  I've been growing my hair for over a year and I still have insecurities about it for different reasons.  It's a struggle right now but there's things to do to overcome this.  Just one step at a time and try to decide what do you want to work on first? Then go from there.  There's always ways to feel better about yourself and you just have to do what works best for you. In these times having friends could be a good thing and sharing these insecurities could help you.

Quote from: Kylo on December 20, 2018, 09:26:20 AM
I think wearing wigs would be cool, actually. Can't see how that can't be turned to an advantage/fun somehow.

Well, I'll tell ya, I had to switch to wigs and it turned into the best thing ever. I was regretting it at first, but I just look so much better now and I can change my color and style as often as I wish. Some of my friends want to start wearing wigs now too.

I don't buy expensive wigs so I'm not going broke by always changing my look.
Yes they do get annoying sometimes but I suffer through it.

As in every bodies life, one wins a few and one looses a few.  When I was still a "man" I had to struggle trying to have a male sounding voice. I always dreamed to have a beard! I looked like a wet cat when I finally was able to grow something that could be considered to be a beard.  I never had that manly chest hair, etc.  I never could be a "real" man, I was just something like a really great cross dresser, and I never developed any real gender identity.

Now that I am a woman, all those things I had to struggle for, have no value anymore, and I can let go of them.
Yes, I do not have most of the physical disadvantages that many of you have, but you have a gender identity, I still am struggling to get one.  I am still absolutely gender fluid, and have no real feeling of belonging.  I am working on it, but have not yet gotten it.
And I have this voice dysphoria!  All the years of training to sound like a man, hits me now into the face, because I have a hard time to fall back into my natural voice, which is in the female range.
As you see, everybody has some problems, some are the same as yours, other are different, but they are still problems!

Anyway, look forward and be happy with what you achieved already, and see the great future you have in front of you!  Finally you can be the real you!

Smile and think positive!
Hugs
Linde

Thanks for all the responses everyone. It's been fun reading all your different perspectives on this question, and it helped me feel like I was less alone when I really needed it.

I have my good days and I have my bad days and I was having a bad couple of days when I started this thread. I can't remember what set me off, but I'm sure it was some trivial thing. I mean, yeah, I really miss having hair and I wish I had my old voice back, but I'm not helpless; I can cope.

Once again, I'm really grateful to everyone who decided to help cheer me up. 

It would be nice if this damned dysphoria didn't continually rear its ugly head and ruin our days. Leaving us empty and broken at days end, but it does.
      I've come to know it will pass and I will be whole again, positive of my decisions and optomistic about my future.

Hi, I am a later transitioner. I started at age 50. I have had several procedures and am lucky my employer has awesome trans benefits.

Hair, I had two sessions of hair transplants. I am thinking of maybe a third but my hair looks pretty good now. It cost $22,000 and was covered by insurance. Dr. Cooley asked what I was going to do to combat T after my 1st transplant procedure. I told him I am post op and he said never mind 🙂 .

Voice, I had two procedures. The first I would not recommend and they were paid $64,000 from insurance and the second I think they were paid $70,000. My work insurance paid for it.

One thing you could do is look for an employer that pays for trans procedures. I work for a research teaching quaternary care teaching hospital.

Voice, the first procedure is called cricoid thyroid subluxation. It raised my voice from 135 to 170 HZ. my range was poor, perhaps 15 HZ. The second procedure was a glottoplasty. I was so worried for 6 months 2 weeks. My voice was very weak and hoarse. Then one day I had a voice, all at once. Every day I record a similar 1 minute routine in the morning. Each week my voice improves. It is not bad now. It has been 7.5 months and still steadily improving. My HZ this morning was 213 to 230. I was not projecting, just talking.

I will never do anything with my voice again. I was so scared my voice was ruined. Right now I am pretty happy and each day it is getting better. The procedure only raised the pitch and lightened my voice and for some odd reason I sound totally different in my head. When I listen to my recorded voice I can hear some of my old voice remnants vaguely but my voice is very different. Pitch is just one element of voice. I have a head voice only and no voice from my chest or throat. Scary stuff for 6.5 months.

Anyhow, I had a lot of work done and everything is covered by insurance except FFS. Tummy fat removal was dropped 6 months before I transitioned. I wish I knew about the benefits when it was covered. However, I do not need it now.

So perhaps finding an employer that has awesome trans benefits is an option. My employer funds the health plan, we are self insured. I work for a liberal employer in a liberal city. However, I have noticed a change over the past two years but that might be my imagination.

A bit of advice, in the end it is not about how others accept us. It is about how we accept ourselves. How we position ourselves to make friends and how we move on with our new life.

I wish you good luck.