Quote from: KathyLauren on January 20, 2019, 04:06:21 PM
Sometimes you know when people tell you.  I had someone tell me that they didn't know until a mutual friend told them.  That friend had my permission to tell the person, and there was a good reason why they should, but I had assumed it wouldn't be news to them.  It was.

That probably made your day. 

Quote from: Lynne on January 19, 2019, 04:12:10 PM
When you go to a trans support group meeting and people don't understand why you are there because they think you are cis.

Hah! Yes.  I had GCS late 2018. I was in the recovery center and there was a rumour that a cis woman was there.  They asked each other in a panic gossip why the center was accepting cisgender women. The rumours were going on for days. One day on the fifth day I was there and finally two gals were sitting at the dining table one night and asked me why I was there. It turn out the person they were all gossiping and avoiding for almost the whole week was me. When I explained that I had my surgery and am recovering, they came clean and told me that they all thought I was that cisgender woman. They asked how my voice was so perfect. I explained that I had VFS five weeks prior. They asked me about my other surgeries  I said that I had no other surgeries.  They said Wow!  So for the last day, they all started talking to me.  It was a very lonely time in recovery, but at least I know why now. When I saw your comment I was like "YES! this is so true". The ultimate test, because we all know how to clock one another. 

The wohle passing thing is a little different when you are an older woman.  I don't go to bars and clubs anymore, no man would buy a drink for an old woman anyway!  My passing is when a store check out person ma'ms me, or when the attendant in changing rooms does not look funny when I go into the female side, or that women in bathrooms continue their activities in a normal way, or start small talk with me.  or when a waiter in a restaurant asks,and what would you like ma'm.  The biggest thing is when men hold the door open and say "after you ma'm".
My voice is naturally pretty high pitched, and is in the lower female voice range.  I am slowly loosing the male speech pattern, because I deal with women only, and I now can pass with my speech without any problem, because most older women have somewhat lower voices anyway.

That's about it how an older trans woman knows she is passing!

I think passing has a spectrum and it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Do you still get "sir"? How about "ma'am"? Or do you get gender neutral or not gendered at all?

On the now rare occasion I get misgendered, I get very introspective. Am I where I thought I was on the continuum? When my friends respond that the person was rude or ignorant, I take it as a cue I'm not where I want to be. My goal is to pass as cis, not to be a passable trans woman. Meaning, I don't want people to think about how to gender me.

I'm not there but moving the needle quickly.

What is your goal on that continuum?

How do you know you are passing? Depends on what that means to you.

I converse with women innately, get the boob stare from guys, doors and elevators held, and mansplained. I have the speech patterns, intonation, pitch and pass easily on the phone, but on occasion still get the random sir or weird glance (always from a woman) once or twice a month. But I'm not where I want to be yet.

Others might be thrilled with what I described and say they pass. It comes back to what does "to pass" mean to you.