My recent 'revelation' about myself has started me thinking about what kinds of people here identify as androgynes and what that means to them. Certainly there is a 'purist' almost academic view of what androgynes are but I don't believe many of us actually match this exactly.

I'm really comfortable with my identity as an androgyne. I feel I fit because I definitely don't have a male gender identity and I don't feel like I have a female identity. Yet my desired presentation includes a female body. I guess my brain seems to be wired for a female body and my evidence for this is the feeling of phantom 'parts' and my body dysphoria. But the bit that controls identity is neither male or female and lately I really feel like I have no gender at all. For a long time I thought I wanted to appear 'androgynous' because I identified as an androgyne but then discovered this was not the case, that it is possible and ok for your identity and desired presentation to be mismatched.

I guess my question is what makes you identify as fitting with the androgynes? How do you see this in relation to male and female genders i.e. are you a mix, neither, 30/70, some other gender or ungendered, pregendered? What is your desired presentation in terms of body and dress?

i really do think androgynes are missing something in their brain chemistry that allows them to grasp the gender at any deep and intuitive level. So I think the variety of methods of expressing, getting around and coping with that are just different people's reactions to the same thing.

Quote from: Pica Pica on April 27, 2008, 03:21:38 PM
i really do think androgynes are missing something in their brain chemistry that allows them to grasp the gender at any deep and intuitive level. So I think the variety of methods of expressing, getting around and coping with that are just different people's reactions to the same thing.

You could be right. We all seem to have a lot of similarities in exprerience, outlook, etc..
But I think it more likely we are all variations of the same thing, which leads to different methods of expression and coping.

There is some recent evidence to suggest transexuals brains are wired to accept stimuli from a certain body - that this is mapped out very early on in our development. (there is an article in the news section of this site in regard to phantom penises and other things). I'm quite facinated at how many transexuals, and probably other trans people too, have certain physical markers like the finger ratio suggesting altered development to what is typical in bio men and women. This suggests to me that there could be a lot of things going on, that gender identiy is one aspect (or aspects) that is related to a whole raft of things. Perhaps an altered brain chemistry is just a symptom of something else like invitro hormone levels or genetic predisposition or a whole complicated dance of stuff. It might be we are alternatively tuned humans, the timing is different but we are in balance within ourselves.

I guess I self-identify as androgyne because I'm not fully comfortable in my bio-male body, but I don't think I'd be fully comfortable in a bio-female body either. My ideal body would combine physiological aspects of both male and female body parts.

Even then, I'd not want to look like a half-and-half person. Ideally, I'd have a form that was visually ambiguous while clothed.

First, I apologize for failure to contribute this week. As you may remember, I started working again at UPS April 15, after 6 weeks of doctor-ordered no heavy lifting. The first week back my supervisor gave my light duty and short hours. This week, the kid gloves were off. I was coming home exhausted. I was waking up with cramps in my legs. Management was happy with me, though; Friday they told me that of the packages I had loaded Wednesday and Thursday, I only loaded 1 on the wrong "package car". And day by day it comes easier.

Second, I may be of the old Chinese restaurant 'type' of androgyne: I want to pick some from column A and some from column B plus a special or two. In an exchange I wanted to jump into during the week, Z said, in part: "I would choose to dress much more feminine, but without trying to pass as female." Kikly quoted and agreed with Z and dreamt of this troika: "female hair/breasts/beard". I jumped out of my chair and yelled, "Me too; me too!"

Putting my hair in a pony tail and donning a suit for the coming family wedding is fine with me. So is the same hair with jeans and T-shirt at work. But I would like to be able to fix my hair differently. I think I could do without stiletto heels. I would like to pick and wear clothes from the other side of the aisle when the whim took me. I definitely do not feel genetically chosen to kill spiders and other creepy-crawlies.

I'm the kind of androgyne who looks at the TS forums and thinks if I were a teen now, there's a good chance I'd take that path. But I've a wife I love, who has learned to use my breast buds to get what she wants, too. Relations between my grown kids and me are good. No surgery would make my feet, hands, and bowed legs look feminine. I might not live long enough to successfully transition. And I have the freedom to do a large part of what I would do as a woman.

In summary, I can almost pass as a male, and I'd look ridiculous trying to pass as a female, but I don't feel like either--and never have.

Respectfully,
S

This is what really struck me as a big difference between me and other androgynes. If I could I would avoid male clothing altogether.

Quote from: NickSister on April 27, 2008, 07:07:48 PM
This is what really struck me as a big difference between me and other androgynes. If I could I would avoid male clothing altogether.

There are days when I feel more masculine than femminine, and vice versa. I don't fit the definition of bi-gender, so I guess it's just a mood thing. There are times when I don't mind male clothing at all, times when I actually crave it.

What type am I? 15 years, and I'm still trying to figure it out. I'd say androgyne/borderline TG, because I'd prefer female characteristics, breasts, full head of hair... but I don't do HRT. I deal with wearing jeans and t shirts and tying my hair in a ponytail, but I'd rather wear wrap skirts and summer dresses. I shaved off my beard years ago, occasionally have thought of having a goatee, but if I don't have to leave the house for a few days and don't shave, my partner complains that I'm too bristly to kiss, and I like being kissed My mannerisms are just me, many female, but I don't make an effort to change my voice, which is baritone and a dead giveaway. I dislike being perceived as male.

Quote from: Simone Louise on April 27, 2008, 06:48:19 PM
In summary, I can almost pass as a male, and I'd look ridiculous trying to pass as a female, but I don't feel like either--and never have.

That pretty much says it Simone, I don't feel like either!

Zythyra

Toss me in the same camp with Zythyra.

I'm both male and female in my thinking in a male body. There are times i'm way into male mode and happy to be there, and there are times i'm way into female mode and trying to find my way as this is new to me. What is becoming apparent to me is that I want to take it a step past just being androgyne in that I want to (and am) growing real boobs, and I have a sudden interest in female fashion and makeup. Perhaps i'm on the way to TG. This thing is like an onion with many interesting layers, and I seem to find a new surprise with each layer. I'm still pretty sure that SRS would not do anything to improve me or my situation, i'd still be as unhappy with a female body as a male one so i'm not considering that.

Quote from: Zythyra on April 27, 2008, 08:26:41 PM
I shaved off my beard years ago, occasionally have thought of having a goatee, but if I don't have to leave the house for a few days and don't shave, my partner complains that I'm too bristly to kiss, and I like being kissed

Zythyra

I've never had complaints about the beard from my partners--and no shortage of kisses. Those who've kissed tell me it's soft and furry. Sometimes, I'm confused with the Beast, from the Disney movie. It's the glasses, though. I have to remove the glasses if I want more than a peck.

I do like kisses,
S

Quote from: Simone Louise on April 27, 2008, 09:39:47 PM
I've never had complaints about the beard from my partners--and no shortage of kisses. Those who've kissed tell me it's soft and furry. Sometimes, I'm confused with the Beast, from the Disney movie. It's the glasses, though. I have to remove the glasses if I want more than a peck.

I do like kisses,
S

I think once my beard grows out it's OK, but the three day to week growth is scratchy

Z

I'm the type of androgyne that socks other androgynes in the jaw for asking "what 'type' of androgyne are you?"

You got that?

Quote from: riven_one on April 27, 2008, 09:36:16 PM
I'm still pretty sure that SRS would not do anything to improve me or my situation, i'd still be as unhappy with a female body as a male one so i'm not considering that.

I'm not keen on SRS either. If I had the pain free choice with no complications or surgery I would probably choose a vulva but I'm not opposed to my man bits. Perhaps if I actually did look like a woman my parts would feel more incongruent. Though they are awfully snug in nickers it would be insane to change them when they don't seem to be a focus of my dysphoria.

Posted on: April 27, 2008, 10:33:49 PM

---

Quote from: Rebis on April 27, 2008, 10:33:30 PM

I'm the type of androgyne that socks other androgynes in the jaw for asking "what 'type' of androgyne are you?"

You got that?

There is always one
Notes down in my book
"Rebis - the angry type"   

Ok, instead of type, how about how do you describe your androgyny?

Quote from: Rebis on April 27, 2008, 10:33:30 PM

I'm the type of androgyne that socks other androgynes in the jaw for asking "what 'type' of androgyne are you?"

You got that?

OK, we got it!

<Z backs away carefully, looking around for the nearest exit> 

Z

Quote from: Zythyra on April 27, 2008, 08:26:41 PM
I'd say androgyne/borderline TG, because I'd prefer female characteristics, breasts, full head of hair... but I don't do HRT.

That's pretty close to how it's with me, too. I'd go slightly further, though, and say 'androgyne / TS in remission' or something like that, as it's quite clear I wish for a female body but am not desperate enough about it to give up my marriage. As for the androgyne part, for me it's more a matter of social gender than body image. I've never really been able to grasp gender other than as role playing, and I don't think I would be any more (or less) comfortable in a female role than I currently am in a sort-of-male one. A genderqueer woman in a male body, I suppose.

  Nfr

Quote from: Seshatneferw on April 28, 2008, 08:41:53 AM
That's pretty close to how it's with me, too. I'd go slightly further, though, and say 'androgyne / TS in remission' or something like that, as it's quite clear I wish for a female body but am not desperate enough about it to give up my marriage.

Funny, I originally typed TS, then changed it to TG.... but yes, somewhere around that on the continuum. I'd probably be more likely to think of myself as non-op, non HRT TS except there are too many people who'd tell me I'm not TS if I don't want to go all the way, and I don't want to rile anyone up. Well, except for maybe riling up Rebis, sie looks cute when sie gets mad  > 

Z

Quote from: riven_one on April 27, 2008, 09:36:16 PM
I'm still pretty sure that SRS would not do anything to improve me or my situation, i'd still be as unhappy with a female body as a male one so i'm not considering that.

Ditto.

Quote from: NickSister on April 27, 2008, 10:35:29 PM

Quote from: Rebis on April 27, 2008, 10:33:30 PM
I'm the type of androgyne that socks other androgynes in the jaw for asking "what 'type' of androgyne are you?"

You got that?

There is always one
Notes down in my book
"Rebis - the angry type"   

Ok, instead of type, how about how do you describe your androgyny?

My androgyny is similar to yours except I don't do any presenting.  you do some presenting, don't you?  Makeup or mixed clothing.

It's similar to Zythyra, Jaimey, Pica, except I'd like a truly mixed body.  Confused.

Posted on: April 28, 2008, 11:43:09 AM

---

Quote from: Seshatneferw on April 28, 2008, 08:41:53 AM

Quote from: Zythyra on April 27, 2008, 08:26:41 PM
I'd say androgyne/borderline TG, because I'd prefer female characteristics, breasts, full head of hair... but I don't do HRT.

That's pretty close to how it's with me, too. I'd go slightly further, though, and say 'androgyne / TS in remission' or something like that, as it's quite clear I wish for a female body but am not desperate enough about it to give up my marriage. As for the androgyne part, for me it's more a matter of social gender than body image. I've never really been able to grasp gender other than as role playing, and I don't think I would be any more (or less) comfortable in a female role than I currently am in a sort-of-male one. A genderqueer woman in a male body, I suppose.

  Nfr

What they said.  But without polka dots.

Posted on: April 28, 2008, 11:45:04 AM

---

Quote from: Zythyra on April 28, 2008, 08:47:30 AM
Funny, I originally typed TS, then changed it to TG.... but yes, somewhere around that on the continuum. I'd probably be more likely to think of myself as non-op, non HRT TS except there are too many people who'd tell me I'm not TS if I don't want to go all the way, and I don't want to rile anyone up. Well, except for maybe riling up Rebis, sie looks cute when sie gets mad  > 

Z

Thanks.  And just to rub it in.  Last night a woman told me I look 29.  I'm 45.  ha ha.

you're only as young as the people whose blood you drink.      I think Dracula said that.

Quote from: Rebis on April 28, 2008, 11:47:38 AM
My androgyny is similar to yours except I don't do any presenting.  you do some presenting, don't you?  Makeup or mixed clothing.

yeah, I find it a necessity. It feels too bad not to. I have longish hair that I often tie up or use hair clips to keep it out of my face. I have quite a bit of female jewellery, often my nails are painted though chipped. I avoid clothing that is too masculine - suits, ties, shirts (unless fitted) etc. I wear woman's shoes and currently am getting IPL hair removal on my face, the best thing I ever did. I'm not really into make-up though. Seems like too much of a hassle to me, especially since I often rub my eyes and touch my face, also I am good looking enough  . I might put on a bit of lippy and eyeliner on rare occasions, like once or twice a year. but that's about it.  I like things practical - short nails, easy hair styles, sneakers.