Tuesday evening, Ellie and I were having a discussion that had been prompted by going to dinner at Famous Dave's Barbeque Restaurant.  The gentleman who seated us at our table greeted us by saying, "Hi! How are you guys doing?"  This was followed quickly by our wait person asking us, "Can I get you ladies something to drink while you look at the menu?"  Ellie was wondering if our wait person was humoring us, and I was saying that "you guys" has become genderless.

What have others experienced about "you guys?"  Gendered?  Or genderless?

Quote from: Lisbeth on June 04, 2008, 11:10:44 PM
Tuesday evening, Ellie and I were having a discussion that had been prompted by going to dinner at Famous Dave's Barbeque Restaurant.  The gentleman who seated us at our table greeted us by saying, "Hi! How are you guys doing?"  This was followed quickly by our wait person asking us, "Can I get you ladies something to drink while you look at the menu?"  Ellie was wondering if our wait person was humoring us, and I was saying that "you guys" has become genderless.

What have others experienced about "you guys?"  Gendered?  Or genderless?

It is certainly genderless but I still hate hearing it.  It makes me question how I look at times...especially if I am already having a bad day.

Charlotte

Quote from: charlotteNH on June 04, 2008, 11:17:34 PM
It is certainly genderless but I still hate hearing it.  It makes me question how I look at times...especially if I am already having a bad day.

Charlotte

Back when I first transitioned, I was sitting talking with a bunch of the girls at work, and another girl joined us saying, "How are all you guys doing?"  Then she realised I was in the group and got embarassed.  She stammered that she wasn't suggesting that I was a guy.  She said I was a girl like the rest of them and wanted to change her greeting to "How are you girls doing?"

LoL

I only laugh because I hated "you guys" for the longest time. Something inside me knew it was genderless, but it made me question myself. It wasn't until I met Meghan that I had a little sense slapped into me. Everywhere we'd go, when the waiter said "you guys," I'd say "See! Clocked me!" It became a joke and over time she made me see how silly I was being and I just started to lighten up about it.

Hi Charlotte.

Cat and I have always had other women who've referred to us as "you guys." The 'guys' say "ladies" as far as I can recall, but, dude you're basically right. That word has become insidious.

I expect that soon we'll be hearing, "Hi, insidiouses, welcome to Dalton's. Table for two?"  > >

Nichole

I think that 'You Guys' very genderless, but I remember when my ex and I when to dinner ( I was in 'boy' mode ) the comment was also made.  I think may be the person is trying, unsuccessful, to be friendly.  And I can definitely see how it could utterly deflate one's confidence.  It sure would blow mine.

If I was with a bunch of other women and it was a female waitress, I would feel that she was including me as a member of a sisterhood.

IMHO,
Janet

I've always taken the "guys" in "you guys" as a clarification that one is using the plural you, not the singular you.  It's funny, though, in that it's a very American expression, and the British seem to have taken the notion that we Yanks use "guys" completely indiscriminately.  (I've heard a number of people comment on it.)

I was watching a Home and Garden show the other day, featuring a well known British gardener.  He was doing his first show actually filmed in and targeted for the U.S.  Throughout the program he kept referring to the married couple (man and woman) whose garden he was doing as "the guys".  I can only think that he was trying to Americanize his language for a U.S. audience, (unless British slang has changed considerably since I was last in the U.K.) but it sounded rather odd.   

So maybe we should just start pushing for a global adoption of good ol' "y'all".   

'wait person'?

was it a waiter or waitress? degendering stuff REALLY annoys me >>


as for 'you guys...'
Its genderless... i know girls who use it to groups of all females.... mixed groups, and male groups... its just a plural tbh... I dont even care... i use it, its not a big deal to me... i have noticed in chat i sometimes get torn into for saying 'how are you guys?' with a rather hoity reply of 'Excuse me i identify as female' ><
R >

Though I too hate it's use, I definetely agree that it's become genderless.

hi... okay its used here in new zealand  a bit . yet we use  mate  same in aust so is that just a male thing .... no its used for us females as well i get it quite a  bit.   other wise its .  hi ladys.   so yea its okay i dont mind  i am a women so no big deal ,,,noeleena...

Quote from: Jamie-o on June 05, 2008, 03:37:18 AM
So maybe we should just start pushing for a global adoption of good ol' "y'all".   

Eeeewwwww!!!!!!

Were you aware that in Texas "y'all" is singular?  The plural is "all y'all."

Quote from: Rachael on June 05, 2008, 03:58:48 AM
'wait person'?

was it a waiter or waitress? degendering stuff REALLY annoys me >>

Ok, Rachael, just for you she was a waitress.  But I still prefer "wait person" over "waitron."

Quote from: Lisbeth on June 05, 2008, 08:00:30 AM

Quote from: Jamie-o on June 05, 2008, 03:37:18 AM
So maybe we should just start pushing for a global adoption of good ol' "y'all".   

Eeeewwwww!!!!!!

Were you aware that in Texas "y'all" is singular?  The plural is "all y'all."

When I lived in VA, I knew people who said "y'alls" for plural. In Philly (PA), it was "youse".

"You guys" seems to mostly be genderless, I've heard women address other women as such, but I'm still getting used to it.

One time my partners daughter addressed me as "dude", and I wasn't having a good day... she assured me that dude/s was genderless, and I've gotten used to her using it.

Z

Quote from: Lisbeth on June 04, 2008, 11:10:44 PM
What have others experienced about "you guys?"  Gendered?  Or genderless?

Oh I hear it all the time when out with my wife, even yesterday...

"Hi Girls!" as we walked into the post office... followed by, "you guys just come on back here, OK?"

And yes, in restaurants it's often, "can I get you guys something to drink?" or whatever.

It bugged me in the beginning when I was hyper-conscious of any gender references, but I don't even notice it now.

~Kate~

I hate it too, I know it is genderless, but it has become an integrated part of American society. Heck, I even use it a lot without realizing it  . It's no biggie for people that are comfortable with their gender (duh), but if I am with a group of women, and someone goes "Hey guys!" or something along that line, I feel singled out a little (because I'm still a "boy", at the moment). I also think sometimes like "Hey, I'm not a guy dang it!!!" Of course, I can't let that one get out.... yet .

Using "you guys" is about the most genderless statement you can make to someone, coming from someone who used it ALL the time when I lived on the East Coast. I don't know if it's a regional thing, but I didn't hear it in Texas at all (only "y'all, another genderless statement obviously) and in California I don't hear it as much. As Laci stated, I think it's silly for transpeople to think that someone is purposely using the phrase "you guys" to mean anything other than a collective you. It's used for large groups of people whether they are gg, guys or whatever. Even the girls I grew up with used it to refer to each other. I guess we could have philosophical discussions about subjugation and power structures/paradigms, etc. around the word, but it doesn't mean anything to 99% of the population. Relax

Quote from: MeghanAndrews on June 05, 2008, 09:42:41 AM
Using "you guys" is about the most genderless statement you can make to someone, coming from someone who used it ALL the time when I lived on the East Coast.

Interesting, as I'm on the East Coast (as you know, lol) and hear it all the time too.

QuoteI guess we could have philosophical discussions about subjugation and power structures/paradigms, etc. around the word, but it doesn't mean anything to 99% of the population. Relax

Ya know, I actually kinda think of it as a *compliment*, as I figure if anyone read me or had trouble thinking of me as a female they'd be hyper-conscious of the pronouns they'd use and would go out of their way to *avoid* saying things like "you guys." So ironically, saying "you guys" to me makes me feel more like just one of the girls, lol...

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on June 05, 2008, 09:57:33 AM

Quote from: MeghanAndrews on June 05, 2008, 09:42:41 AM
Using "you guys" is about the most genderless statement you can make to someone, coming from someone who used it ALL the time when I lived on the East Coast.

Interesting, as I'm on the East Coast (as you know, lol) and hear it all the time too.

QuoteI guess we could have philosophical discussions about subjugation and power structures/paradigms, etc. around the word, but it doesn't mean anything to 99% of the population. Relax

Ya know, I actually kinda think of it as a *compliment*, as I figure if anyone read me or had trouble thinking of me as a female they'd be hyper-conscious of the pronouns they'd use and would go out of their way to *avoid* saying things like "you guys." So ironically, saying "you guys" to me makes me feel more like just one of the girls, lol...

~Kate~

I'm sure that's right. I imagine they'd make it a point of 'hyper-consciously' referring to you as "Sir." People enjoy pointing out that they 'know' 'what' someone else "really is."   >

Quote from: Jamie-o on June 05, 2008, 03:37:18 AM
So maybe we should just start pushing for a global adoption of good ol' "y'all".   

Here, here! Y'all, it is!

Quote from: lacitychick21 on June 05, 2008, 10:03:17 AM

Quote from: Jamie-o on June 05, 2008, 03:37:18 AM
So maybe we should just start pushing for a global adoption of good ol' "y'all".   

Here, here! Y'all, it is!

Well, I would be lying if I said that I have not been hyper sensitive to the pronoun usage, but I am trying to lighten up a little bit. I have known many women that use "you guys" and "buddy" and "dude" all of the time when referring to other women. I guess dealing with all of the GID stuff kind of screwed me up for a while. Although I do have to say there IS a difference between someone just casually saying "dude" and someone that purposely rams male pronouns down your throat every other word. THAT is very, very annoying.

Quote from: Nichole on June 05, 2008, 10:02:13 AM
I'm sure that's right. I imagine they'd make it a point of 'hyper-consciously' referring to you as "Sir." People enjoy pointing out that they 'know' 'what' someone else "really is."   >

Whatcha mean? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or... ?

In my experience, people don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings, and instead of risking a normally innocent phrase like, "you guys," would rather play it safe... IF they "know."

I mean sure, if someone said, "thank you SIR" to me, sure... I'd be hurt. That's different. People just don't say that to women.

But when I walk into a place with my wife and hear, "how are you guys today?" I take it I'm just "normal" to them, not in need of special consideration "as a transsexual" or whatever. I'm just a normal girl, being referred to as casually as any other girl is. I take it as either:

1) I pass

2) I don't pass, but they still think of me as a female to the point they don't feel a need to "protect" my feelings

~Kate~