Quote from: Rachael on June 05, 2008, 05:58:25 PMive NEVER heard a natal female protest about someone refering to the group they are in as 'you guys' EVER

I have.  Feminists (especially of my generation and older) often take exception to that sort of thing.

Well.... feminists will take offence at anything remotely male or equal....

feminists can be as bad as misogynists... its swings and roundabouts.

_I_ personally, have never heard anyone complain, then again, i dont hang out with hardcore feminists, or even want to.
R >

Quote from: Rachael on June 07, 2008, 12:52:25 PM
Well.... feminists will take offence at anything remotely male or equal....

feminists can be as bad as misogynists... its swings and roundabouts.

_I_ personally, have never heard anyone complain, then again, i dont hang out with hardcore feminists, or even want to.
R >

i totally agree (with Rachael?)

-Ell

Its become almost a standard salutation when leaving one of the places I work to say "Bye bitches" regardless of who is there, or even better, if its nothing but guys.  Blurring gender lines will do that to you.

Funny, all the people who think that 'biology is not destiny' but somehow, vocabulary is.

"You guys" has become a genderless way that a group, either same sex, or mixed male and female are commonly addressed. I've heard "you guys" so often that I don't even notice it anymore, although thinking about it now, I'm more likely to hear it when I'm out with a younger group.

Unless its "Youse guys" in which case you're in Jersey.

Or Philly or NYC.

Yeah, among younger people 'you guys' is pretty endemic and not a gender-marked word.

It seems to be more problematic for trans people who've not had much time IRL than for others.

N~

Quote from: Karen on June 07, 2008, 12:01:09 PM
"guy", "dude" >> genderless.  Agreed.

I've been addressed as 'sir' at work while wearing a very feminine dress.  That one still gets me, the "I know what you REALLY are 'sir'". 

I haven't yet figured out a comeback that will establish boundaries without potentially bringing on a counseling statement from a section supervisor who wishes to protect the rights of people who wish to address me as 'sir'.

Karen

I'm assuming it is a man who does this. My suggestion is to respond by calling him Ma'am, Miss or anything else incongruous to his gender. Turn-about is fair play in this case. Have some of your girlfriends at work do the same. That should give him a taste of how it feels to make someone uncomfortable.  You have as much right as he to use incorrect terms.

 Just my 2¢,

Karen Lyn

It's a good idea KarenLyn, but I wouldn't assume it's a man. I understand women do the same thing.

Nichole

Quote from: Nichole on June 07, 2008, 06:19:20 PM
It's a good idea KarenLyn, but I wouldn't assume it's a man. I understand women do the same thing.

Nichole

I think it would work just as well with a woman if not even better. It wouldn't just be turning it about, but doing the exact same thing. The look on their face would be priceless either way...

I couldn't agree more, sir.

I wouldn't be too offended by 'you guys'.  I have a woman friend who says that all the time, doesn't matter who she's addressing, and her little daughter says it too.  And let me add, she is no feminist.

Here in Oz, men often call other men and women 'mate'.  Now I hate that term, but its part of our culture, and you can't fight something that is so ingrained in the culture. 

I don't mind being called, while in a group, "guys". What I don't like is when they start stamering and saying I meant girls or something like that. That just irritates me.

Yah.....it used to pluck my nerves.  But now I'm not so hyper-sensitive.

Dude, just call me
Bev