Cindy BC, an interesting idea, a mod's suggesting a transfer of forum without doing that themself, or leaving a report? That doesn't happen often.
Personally, I'd say the conversation is pretty much fine where it is, as this way a group of people can discuss it and it doesn't become another "hidden" conversation.
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Gracie, you are not the only one. Surely there are a lot of women and men who probably feel about the same. I think especially women who have been alienated by choice from the gay-life prior to transition. There can be a lot of embarrassment it seems among some over just that.
QuoteI dislike being considered as/grouped with non-transsexual transgendered people.
I think this is pretty universal. There are times when each of us don't like such groupings. For instance a lot of second-wave feminists felt uncomfortable being grouped with poor, black and lesbian women. All those others made a lot of them feel like people would "get the wrong idea" about them. So, for a good while there were arguments through the late 60s about inclusion and exile. Some of them continue today.
I have this notion that people who are different can still care for, support, and work together one with another.
I mean, do I want to be thought of as a sex-worker because I transitioned? No. But do other woman like me do sex-work? Yep. So we are different, but just how different?
Other people cross-dress. They don't appear to be transitioning, but some who start as cross-dressers later discover that that isn't "enough." They begin transition in earnest and wind up getting surgeries.
There are some women and men who are don't complete all surgeries. OK, that makes them different from those of us who do, but how different?
Andra completed surgery, but is Andra like Lia who also completed surgery? I think they have lots in common, but the identifications they have are different, except as post-ops. So, it seems to me that there is always a variety.
Do we shun people because they are different? African-American and Latina women certainly have a different up-bringing, different ways they have walked through the world from me. But, do those things separate us into three entirely different groups? Maybe to some extent, I suppose that depends on us. But, I'd imagine we are more alike than different.
I have to admit that for me women's issues are more the focus of my life than are "trans" issues or LTBG issues. But, I have an interest in all three and all three do, in some ways, impact my life.
I cannot sort your feelings for you, not that you've asked,
but I can tell you I have been where you are. In fact, I've been somewhere to the far-side of Cindy BC in my views.
Butcha know? Actually getting to know people who aren't like me in every way has also changed a lot of my earlier views. That's made it much harder for me to maintain a concrete political/social/philosophical wall in my mind and heart between all of our different groups.
I have to admit I also have some reservations about "Transgendered," but I have no reservations about being able to align myself and be friends with people who aren't like me. I don't want to see them unprotected, disenfranchised and exiled just so other people can tell the difference between me and them. That just doesn't ring true for me either.
Nor can I agree with Alicia Marie. Ya see, the way the cissexuals/cisgendered people view us all as the same is their difficulty. I am under no obligation to alleviate their prejudices. They need to do that for themselves by doing something like what I have done. Actually getting to know people who they are currently afraid of. I cannot relieve their prejudices and fears.
No amount of me distancing myself from another is going to show still others that I am somehow different. Those beliefs are their own. The only things that ever make a difference for the prejudiced is actually getting to know and integrate themselves with others. It becomes so much harder then to make blanket statements about any other group. Because, as you see in your support group -- they may be different, but you also find ones that you like and care for. Others, perhaps not so much.
And you also notice that some people always hold onto "philosophical" arguments about difference and sameness no matter what. For them the idea seems more important, I suppose, than what they actually come to discover. Is an idea more important than a person? For me that's the core of this entire discussion. I vote that people are more important than ideas, so, I am willing and able to support transgendered people and number myself among them.
Your choice is your choice, luv. Your comfort is your comfort and only you can reach that. Making a decision like that one way or another doesn't make you a "bad person;" although I have to admit that when I have doubts like that, I sorta think I should try to figure out why I think they are "bad," ya know?
Use your heart and your mind. I think that even if you find that you should separate yourself from crossdressers, genderqueers and even from transsexuals that are not like you, you don't have to be a bad person. You don't have to value yourself at the expense of another. You just recognize a difference.
I recognize difference, but like Lia said, I also recognize similarities, especially in the way many cises perceive and think about us all. Smaller and smaller well-defined and segregated groups when altogether we are probably less than or equal to about 1% or so of the population isn't a great idea. But, that I feel is a practicality. The more allies and fellow-travelers a very small group has, the better chance that that group survives and thrives in a milieu that is decidedly hostile in many respects.
It's a good question and definitely good that you have some ambivalence about how you feel. Ambivalence is usually the first sign that there is something there the person hasn't come to a wholy comfortable place in their life about. Work with that, feel yourself and question yourself. I think you'll discover a place you can comfortably live.
Nichole
