Quote from: Sebastien on April 19, 2009, 08:55:58 PM
I, on the other hand, will never be considered legally male... not unless the laws change. I was born in Ohio, one of only 3 or 4 states in the U.S. that will not change gender on birth certificates. Suppose I can only hope that when and if my wife changes hers, the wonderful US of A doesn't nullify our nuptials.

Sebastien, if you change your gender markers with your state of residence and with the Social Security Administration, won't you be considered legally male for all intents and purposes?

My birth state won't change the birth certificate, either. All I can do is get some kind of card that is affixed to the birth certificate. And I would have to jump through some serious legal hoops just to do that. So it's not worth it to me.

Quote from: Arch on April 19, 2009, 08:57:17 PM
Colormyworld, you might think about one more thing. I got married in California before gay marriage was briefly legalized and before the marriage forms (at least in some cities) got rid of the gender-specific terms "husband" and "wife."

Now I wish I had waited. I was so humiliated at being designated the wife when I just wanted to be a spouse. It still burns me up, years later. So much that I've considered getting divorced and then getting remarried just so I can fill out a new form. I guess I get hung up on the weirdest things.

But if that sort of thing matters to you--or if you can foresee a time post-transition that it might make a difference--you can consider getting married in a state that does have gay marriage or in a location that has no gender-specific markers on the form you fill out.

I know it doesn't bother me either way, but it might matter to SO. I'm still going to call her my WIFE no matter what, and nobody can stop me from referring to her that way!
This will be something that we'll have to look into a bit though!

For Arch (and other US folks): The federal government does NOT recognize ANY same-sex marriage, even if it is done in a state that recognizes it. There is no such thing as 'married filing jointly' in the eyes of the federal gov't. Hence, same-sex couples pay more taxes, and are *denied* the benefits of hetero couples...and there are a lot.

I found a website called www.freedomtomarry.org that seemed to have a lot of info on the matter. I also found a book called "A Legal Guide for Gay and Lesbian Couples" by attorneys Denis Clifford, Frederick Hertz, and Emily Doskow which covers some of the hurdles trans couples will have.

I won't pretend I've read everything out there, but what I have read does make me angry that just because my spouse is also female, I am now somehow less of a person.

WR

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Post Merge: April 19, 2009, 10:43:00 PM

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Oh, I forgot to mention the blog from the Miami South Herald that I found as well.  The blog is by Steve Rothaus and is titled "Married gay couples, others to protest U.S. tax policy during Boston Tea Party reenactment."

There is also http://www.jointheimpactma.com/taxday

I clickied 'post' too soon

WR

I think anyone and everyone of legal age who wishes to be married should be able to do so.

I just can't wrap my mind around why anyone would need a legal document just to show their devotion to another

Sure there are tax benefits to be had

But wouldn't you love that person the same regardless?

Are we talking about loving another person or the love of money?

Quote from: Virginia Marie on April 19, 2009, 11:48:06 PM
I think anyone and everyone of legal age who wishes to be married should be able to do so.

I just can't wrap my mind around why anyone would need a legal document just to show their devotion to another

Sure there are tax benefits to be had

But wouldn't you love that person the same regardless?

Are we talking about loving another person or the love of money?

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but I have to say that the legal benefits of marriage go way beyond a tax break. For instance, if I wind up in a coma, there is no EFFING way I would ever want my blood relations to decide what happens to me. Yet even healthcare proxy and power of attorney arrangements can be reversed by family members who are very determined. A legal marriage, on the other hand, allows my partner to make decisions about my life if I should be unable to.

For my part, I didn't get married to show my devotion to my partner. We were together for many years before we legally tied the knot. I got married for certain legal benefits, but I would never have done it if I weren't in love with my partner.

That explains thing quite a bit better. True Love and Benefits

I guess the idea of marriage to anyone just scares the stuff out of me

Truly, the thought of my blood relatives making decisions for me is even scarier 

As Arch noted, there are over 1,000 benefits that hetero married couples have, that are denied to same sex couples. This is why the *federal* marriage laws need to be changed. I'm not saying the state laws are bad, here, just not enough. But then, if enough states change their laws, the federal gov't may fall in line. It's tough to say at this stage.

Right now, we've got a whole boatload of FUD** being pumped out there by various religious and political organizations causing problems. It's keeping the "horror" alive for the "normal" people, which is causing resistance to legal changes.

That's why I think if enough states change the laws, and after the initial press dies down, most people will realize that marriage equality really didn't affect them and then (hopefully) future legal changes will not be such an issue.

WR

**FUD - stands for Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Generally means promoting emotionally charged statements to cause a strong reaction.

For me, it's not even the legal benefits, although those are a huge part of it.  It's the principle.  Why shouldn't I be able to legally do all the things straight people do, including get married if I wish?  If that right is denied to me, then I am a second-class citizen.  And 'accepting' civil unions makes me separate-but-equal.  Marriage can be performed by city hall; it doesn't have to have any religious connotation at all, yet it's being kept from us for religious and bigoted reasons.  I don't appreciate other people's religion being forced on me.

Quote from: CindyJames on April 19, 2009, 02:43:15 AM
Hi

I think it depends on which country, and in the USA even which state you are in. In Australia the couple are automatically divorced, even if they have no wish to, when the new birt certificate is given. The arguement for is that same sex marriges are not recognised. There is at least one couple I know who have gone through this and she is refusing the new birth certificate because she wishes to stay with her wife. A horrible mean and nasty situation created and maintained by people who have no compassion.

A number of us are trying to lobby Parliment to change this law. And to change the discrimination between same sex marrige generally.

I suggest you consult legal opinion.

Hope it all works out.
Even if you cannot remain married in the eye of the law. Who cares, you love each other and that's what matters.

Love and Hugs

Cindy James

Hi Cindy 

I've been researching this, and read that if you share a household in Australia for a certain amount of time and/or can prove that your lives are together then you are defacto married for all intents and purposes, regardless of gender or paperwork. My SO is an Australian citizen and we are in fact going to use that to get my permanent residence visa so I can stay there more than 3 months at a time.

This from the Aussie immigration website:

"The Australian Government has introduced changes to remove discrimination against same-sex couples and their children from Commonwealth law."

This is for defacto relationships only however, you are correct that Australia does not recognize same sex marriage other than that. Still, it seems from reading on the government site that defacto marriage (known as 'interdependent relationship') carries most of the same benefits as any other marriage. More info here (I got permission from Emelye to post these links):

http://www.ag.gov.au/samesexreform

and here for purposes of immigration:

http://www.immi.gov.au/legislation/key-changes/2009/same-sex-relationships.htm

all in all it does seem to be a bit more accommodating for same-sex couples over there than in the US, who afaik doesn't even recognize civil unions on a federal level. What TamTam said about being "second class citizens" still seems to be true no matter where you go. 

Quote from: TamTam on April 20, 2009, 09:28:42 AM
For me, it's not even the legal benefits, although those are a huge part of it.  It's the principle.  Why shouldn't I be able to legally do all the things straight people do, including get married if I wish?  If that right is denied to me, then I am a second-class citizen.  And 'accepting' civil unions makes me separate-but-equal.  Marriage can be performed by city hall; it doesn't have to have any religious connotation at all, yet it's being kept from us for religious and bigoted reasons.  I don't appreciate other people's religion being forced on me.

EXACTLY!  Of course there are benefits, but just being able to say "This is my WIFE" and have it be 100% official, it's just a good feeling! If some people are allowed to get married, and others not, that's discrimination!

If you're so against same sex marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex, don't attend a same sex wedding, I don't care what you do or don't do in your personal life, but DON'T stop us from doing what we rightfully should be allowed to do!

Quote from: Starr on April 19, 2009, 08:13:35 PMShe hasn't had any treatment discrimination from insurance

Actually, I have. The Anthem policy I had the last time I had health coverage has a clause specifically disallowing anything related to transgender. Bastards. So I simply bypassed insurance altogether, I buy my hormones from the Whitman-Walker Clinic pharmacy because they give their patients great discounts. I could not afford to buy hormones at a regular pharmacy with no insurance. I'm very grateful for the WWC.

I live in Iceland.
My marriage to my husband is "secure" even if I change all gender markers that are attached to me and same sex couples can file their taxes together even if they're not married without having to jump through hoops.

Quote from: Starr on April 19, 2009, 08:13:35 PM
She hasn't had any treatment discrimination from insurance

Quote from: Hypatia on April 21, 2009, 12:05:41 AM
Actually, I have. The Anthem policy I had the last time I had health coverage has a clause specifically disallowing anything related to transgender. Bastards. So I simply bypassed insurance altogether

Unfortunately, I don't think that will change anytime soon. The way things went in your situation with having to get that other insurance, I guess it's kind of hard to tell if either would have had a problem with authorizing routine health care (non-TG related). Like if the first one would have allowed you to have your mammogram. The second insurance was so useless, it's hard to say with that one.