Hey all,

So, I'm probably about as "new" to all this as is possible... I've been spending so much time soaking up everything I can online, lurking every possible forum, watching all the wicked transition vids on YouTube, etc. and I'm to the point now that I really feel that I've come out to myself as trans. Wow, that's not nearly as scary to type as I thought it would be. Go me!

Even a couple of days ago, I considered myself to be "questioning" my gender, or I'd say things like "maybe I'm just butchy or genderqueer", but I think it's safe to say that those options don't really feel like the whole answer, and the only "shoe that fits" is FtM...

What's hard for me to reconcile with that knowledge though, is that on the outside, I'm fairly unmasculine. I wouldn't say I'm necessarily "feminine", I don't dress or act all that girly, etc., but I feel really self-conscious that I don't look masculine enough to be taken seriously as a transguy. It seems like most (if not all?) FtMs have just always been more than just tomboyish or butchy, and that their biggest hurdle to transitioning was the genetic challenge of female parts, etc, not the "coming to terms with their maleness" part...

Which makes me feel inadequate I guess, since I'm not even someone that most outsiders would say "oh yeah, that's totally a guy in a girl's body" and I feel like I'll be judged or laughed at... I have a friend (IRL) who's a transguy too, and even around him I feel self-conscious as identifying as FtM, because he's so overtly masculine and it's not a big stretch to see him as a dude. Whereas with me, I dress and carry myself in a pretty gender-neutral way, but nobody would ever mistake me for a guy...

The thing is, I don't wear girly clothes or makeup or whatever, cuz it just doesn't feel right for me, but I don't wear actual men's clothing either, because I don't feel that I'm masculine enough to pull it off, and that I'd just look ridiculous. Like "who's that girl pretending to be a guy", even though I know that on the INSIDE, I'm a guy... So I just stick to short but not "manly" haircuts, and tshirts and jeans  and hoodies and khakis and stuff from the women's department, but as shapeless and non-feminizing as possible.

I don't know, I've been thinking that maybe if I just cut all my hair off and started wearing guys' clothes then maybe I'll feel that I look masculine enough that I won't be self-conscious anymore, and maybe I just won't know til I try. But it's scary, you know?

Anyhow, I've just realized that I'm completely rambling and that this post is already a freakin' novel... I should stop boring you all. lol

But yeah, so if anyone knows what I mean, has maybe gone through similar challenges accepting yourself, and figuring out "where to start" in this big ol' scary world of transitioning, lemme know! I hope that posting here doesn't just confirm to me that I'm the only one that feels this way... Ugh.

Thanks everyone, and I look forward to getting forward to know you all.

Hi Nes.
Being ftm trans is not a question of machismo. But it is a question of maleness.
You don't have to be stereotypically masculine to identify as a man. Transition demands that you know who you are, but it's okay if you need to explore that. Remember that what you see in today's society wasn't always the standard. You don't have to fit into the cultural ideal of manhood - stoic, plain, ripped, crew cut, etc. to be male.
welcome.
<offers hand>

Hey man, like Nero said, it's not about being macho.

But if you want to start wearing male clothes and getting a masculine haircut then by all means go for it if that's what you really want. If it makes you feel more comfortable, by all means do it. Even if you don't pass with all that stuff, there are a lot of FTMs that don't pass at all pre-T.

Welcome, man... good to see someone articulate!

SD

Hi.

As a MtF, I have to say that people seem to think it's not much of a streach to see me as a girl, however, I have a MtF friend who acts non-feminine in most ways possible, so I can understand where you are coming from on this...

Thank you all SOOOO much for your replies. You have no idea how much it means to me to hear your viewpoints and just feel welcome and accepted. Actually... you probably do have an idea! 

Also, I'd like to respond to some of your comments individually. Bear with me as I figure out this quoting thing...

Quote from: Nero on July 12, 2009, 03:53:03 PM
Transition demands that you know who you are, but it's okay if you need to explore that.

This really hit home. I think I really needed to hear that it's okay if I don't have all the answers yet. Phew, huge weight off. I guess my assumptions that all transpeople have always known definitively and have never faltered is probably a bit off then, and maybe it's okay for me to be less than 100% sure and still identify as a guy... 

Quote from: Monty on July 12, 2009, 04:00:26 PM
But if you want to start wearing male clothes and getting a masculine haircut then by all means go for it if that's what you really want. If it makes you feel more comfortable, by all means do it. Even if you don't pass with all that stuff, there are a lot of FTMs that don't pass at all pre-T.

Yeah, I'm hoping that once I cut my hair and wear guys' clothes (which won't be a big stretch from my appearance now, but just the mental step I'm taking to say it's okay to do so) will hopefully help me see "the guy I know I am" a little more clearly in the mirror, so that I don't have the image of this chick staring back at me saying "see, you're a girl, stop trying to be something you're not" and hopefully I'll just let myself explore this however I'm comfortable instead of feeling like a fraud just because I look like a girl. If that makes any sense...

Quote from: Sebastien on July 12, 2009, 04:04:21 PM
Welcome, man... good to see someone articulate!

Thanks SD, I love your sig btw. So true... 

Quote from: Heartwood on July 12, 2009, 04:04:40 PM
As a MtF, I have to say that people seem to think it's not much of a streach to see me as a girl, however, I have a MtF friend who acts non-feminine in most ways possible, so I can understand where you are coming from on this...

Yeah, I guess I just have to let go of my stereotypes and realize that whether in the cis world, or the trans one, there are still millions of shades of crayons in the box, and I don't have to try to fit into one of the standard 8 colours... lol


Anyhow, thanks all for the great welcome and for already helping me feel better about all of this. I'm sure I'm going to be spending a lot of time on here bugging you all with questions and such.

p.s. Should I figure out what I want to "go by" and be called on here? NES_junkie is just because of my Nintendo addiction (lol), so it seems funny to be addressed as Nes... Or do you all just go by your screen names (although many of your screen names are actual "names"...) Sigh, I'm such a n00b.

Quotep.s. Should I figure out what I want to "go by" and be called on here? NES_junkie is just because of my Nintendo addiction (lol), so it seems funny to be addressed as Nes... Or do you all just go by your screen names (although many of your screen names are actual "names"...) Sigh, I'm such a n00b.

I wasn't sure what to call you. Maybe try out a male name here. See if you like it.

QuoteI guess my assumptions that all transpeople have always known definitively and have never faltered is probably a bit off then, and maybe it's okay for me to be less than 100% sure and still identify as a guy... 

It's definitely okay. you'll figure out what's best for you as time goes along.

Quote from: NES_junkie on July 12, 2009, 06:04:36 PMYeah, I'm hoping that once I cut my hair and wear guys' clothes (which won't be a big stretch from my appearance now, but just the mental step I'm taking to say it's okay to do so) will hopefully help me see "the guy I know I am" a little more clearly in the mirror, so that I don't have the image of this chick staring back at me saying "see, you're a girl, stop trying to be something you're not" and hopefully I'll just let myself explore this however I'm comfortable instead of feeling like a fraud just because I look like a girl. If that makes any sense...

Trust me, I don't think there are that many FTMs who can look in the mirror, pre-T, with a boy's haircut and clothes and not feel like they don't recognize the person in the mirror.

Hey, there are some that are fine with it, but they're usually the ones who don't want hormones.

Hello there.  What an excellent first post. I think you kind of answered your own questions in a way with this bit......

Quote from: NES_junkie on July 12, 2009, 03:43:59 PM


Even a couple of days ago, I considered myself to be "questioning" my gender, or I'd say things like "maybe I'm just butchy or genderqueer", but I think it's safe to say that those options don't really feel like the whole answer, and the only "shoe that fits" is FtM...

Having taken that next step you're now questioning that as well, testing your feelings against all the arguments. This can only be a good thing in the end.

As an interested observer (and occasional contributor) around here, I can tell you that you've come to the right place. The guys here are supportive and understanding and wise and funny, so pull up a chair and make yourself comfortable.

Quote from: NES_junkie on July 12, 2009, 06:04:36 PM
I guess my assumptions that all transpeople have always known definitively and have never faltered is probably a bit off then, and maybe it's okay for me to be less than 100% sure and still identify as a guy... 

I was a little boy when I was small. Then, I guess, the weight of everybody else's opinion basically turned me into a tomboy. I was never fully happy that way, but I made the most of the role. As a teenager and young adult, I did my damnedest to be a regular girl and fit in, since my situation seemed hopeless and I didn't know there was such a thing as FTMs. I thought I was seriously disturbed for feeling the way I felt, so I buried it.

I must have spent ten or twelve years in this girl phase, denying who I really was. That's a heckuva a long time to "falter."

Some of us are never shaken in our sense of ourselves. Some are. In short, we're all over the map. I have heard that in some trans communities, any type of uncertainty or questioning or perceived femininity actually IS attacked and denigrated, so people hide their true feelings to avoid censure. Ick.

Anyone who tells you that there is a right way to feel or a right way to transition--or that transition is a must at all--is full of it.

Welcome to Susan's. I'm glad you found this place.

Welcome. And I know totally how you feel. I couldn't have passed no matter what I did pre-T, and I didn't wear men's clothes or have a men's haircut because I felt uncomfortably like people would think I was cross-dressing. It wasn't that I was feminine or anything, I just had a distinctly female body and face.

Like Nero said, it's not that you have to comply with stereotypical notions of masculinity, just that if you know you're a guy, then do what it takes to make you feel comfortable. And if you don't know what it will take to make you feel comfortable, we're here to help you explore it.

Dennis

It all starts with the small things. I donated all my female clothes, which was pretty much just work clothes. I kept a few real nice ones to give to my sisters. Then I got some strictly men's office work clothes. I started getting rid of girly things people had given me over the years. I didn't really like them but I kept them out of politeness. Look into getting a binder.

Even just not wearing the women's clothing anymore is so liberating. I worked on stopping any half-assed feminine mannerisms I tried so very hard to learn. It's amazing what family and society will force you to learn. It's so liberating to not always have to watch what I'm doing so I don't seem flamingly butch. Now, I don't care (as much).

Getting a therapist is a good idea. Mine has helped me alot and will probably help me more in the future. I'm not transitioning as quickly as I would like, but that's due to my situation with family & work. It will be easier for me and others if I transition slowly. You'll probably need to find an endo to start T if you want to. I'm not far in my transition either and it seems overwhelming at all the things I have left to do, but, I just try to do one step at a time. As time goes on I get closer to my goal. You will too.

Welcome, fellow enjoyer of older tech

It's perfectly ok to be FTM and not be "super macho". There are as many different types of men in the world as there are men!

Even here, we have men that enjoy gettin' down and dirty in the garage, and men that enjoy shoe shopping. Some of us "knew" without a doubt of who we were since day one, and others discovered it much later in life. We're all at different stages on our paths, with different start and end points.

As you embark on your journey of self discovery and self actualization, I think the really important things are to be yourself, and remain true to yourself. There is no "right" or "wrong" - you aren't your friend, and what he does doesn't change who you are. "FTM" is only a descriptive label applied to one aspect of who you are. We're all made up of so many parts becides our gender, there's a huge amount of natural variance! (This is also true for non-trans people. A good thing, too - clones make very dull people!  ).

Do what feels right, when it feels right. If you aren't comfortable going out in men's clothes yet, but you want to "try it out", there is always the option of doing it in the privacy of your own home until you feel ready. And never sweat a haircut - the stuff grows back! 

The early stages of discovery and expression are some of the most nerve wracking, but they are also some of the most liberating, affirming and rewarding.

Regarding the general public - You might just find they're too busy being focused on themselves and what they need to get done to notice or care! 

Wow again guys. I thought I was extremely lucky to have gotten as many responses as I did, and next thing I knew there were a bunch more awesome replies! I feel completely spoiled by your warm welcomes, and the time you've all taken to relate your stories, give advice, etc. I'm quite moved by it all actually, so a very sincere and heartfelt thank you to you all.

Quote from: Nero on July 12, 2009, 06:20:25 PM
I wasn't sure what to call you. Maybe try out a male name here. See if you like it.

Would it be bad forum-etiquette if I try out a name and then possibly change it once I figure out what name suits me best? I have a name in mind, but I'm not 100% sure about it (recurring theme... lol), but I don't want to make anyone frustrated if just as they get used to calling me one name, I switch it to another, ya know? 

Quote from: Monty on July 12, 2009, 06:23:44 PM
Trust me, I don't think there are that many FTMs who can look in the mirror, pre-T, with a boy's haircut and clothes and not feel like they don't recognize the person in the mirror.

That's a big relief. I probably seem like a slow learner for continually expressing the same concerns and doubts, but the reassurance from all of you has already done wonders for my stress level. I'm really feeling like I can accept this and take it as it comes instead of continuing to feed myself self-depreciating stereotypes and flak. It may sound melodramatic, but finding this forum has already been life-changing.

Quote from: Arch on July 12, 2009, 06:57:26 PM
I was a little boy when I was small. Then, I guess, the weight of everybody else's opinion basically turned me into a tomboy. I was never fully happy that way, but I made the most of the role. As a teenager and young adult, I did my damnedest to be a regular girl and fit in, since my situation seemed hopeless and I didn't know there was such a thing as FTMs. I thought I was seriously disturbed for feeling the way I felt, so I buried it.

YES!!! Exactly!! You so completely expressed exactly how I felt growing up. As a kid I was one of the boys, (I even felt relieved when I found my clit because I thought I was *finally* growing my penis... And was very disappointed when I found out that wasn't the case. But I still held on to a tenuous hope that *maybe* it would turn into a penis anyways...).

I played with both boys and girls, but I felt instinctually that I was part of an "us" that included boys, and the girls were "them". When I played "guns", "army", or "race cars" (on our bikes), with my male cousin, I was in my natural element. When he stopped to pee behind the shed and I had to go into the house, I felt not only ripped-off, but also confused. The first time that happened, I asked my mom if I could have a plastic penis for Christmas. I didn't even know if such a product existed, but I felt sure that it must, because "how else was I going to pee standing up?!?!" lol. Poor mom, what she must've thought about that question coming from a 5 year-old...

Then, as I became aware of the social expectations of the sex I was born into, I tried my hardest to live up to those standards and be as good of a "girl" as I could. When I finally came out as gay (at age 27, after marrying a man and having two children), I felt a big relief, because not only could I be with people I was phyiscally and emotionally attracted to, but the gender roles were "loosened" because people didn't expect me to be girly as a lesbian, and to an extent I felt like I could be "one of the guys" again.

It was only recently that I've begun to realize that even though there's a big difference between being a straight girl (and the gender-role expectations that go along with that) and being gay (and the somewhat looser rules about femininity and gender-roles), it's still not the same as being a guy. There are still expectations on gay women to be "women" in all that entails.

And beyond just the social expectations, I just somehow know that I'm a guy. I hate being treated like a woman, or being reminded that I'm technically a girl. And when something happens (however small) that makes me feel like a guy (someone telling me "you drive like a man" or my mom jokingly saying "you're more like another son than a daughter" or someone online [on a non-trans-related site] thinking I'm a guy because of my gender-neutral screenname) I'm overjoyed, even as insignificant as those things may be in the grand scheme of things.

Quote from: Dennis on July 12, 2009, 07:00:36 PM
Welcome. And I know totally how you feel. I couldn't have passed no matter what I did pre-T, and I didn't wear men's clothes or have a men's haircut because I felt uncomfortably like people would think I was cross-dressing.

Precisely. I don't want people to see me as "a girl wearing guy's clothing" I just want them to see me as a guy. But I'm not "there" yet in terms of anything further than clothing/haircut, so I'm going to try 'em out to find if at least they help me be able to see even a sliver of myself in the mirror.

Quote from: Radar on July 12, 2009, 08:01:16 PM
It all starts with the small things. I donated all my female clothes, which was pretty much just work clothes. I kept a few real nice ones to give to my sisters. Then I got some strictly men's office work clothes. I started getting rid of girly things people had given me over the years. I didn't really like them but I kept them out of politeness. Look into getting a binder.

Even just not wearing the women's clothing anymore is so liberating. I worked on stopping any half-assed feminine mannerisms I tried so very hard to learn. It's amazing what family and society will force you to learn. It's so liberating to not always have to watch what I'm doing so I don't seem flamingly butch. Now, I don't care (as much).

Getting a therapist is a good idea. Mine has helped me alot and will probably help me more in the future. I'm not transitioning as quickly as I would like, but that's due to my situation with family & work. It will be easier for me and others if I transition slowly. You'll probably need to find an endo to start T if you want to. I'm not far in my transition either and it seems overwhelming at all the things I have left to do, but, I just try to do one step at a time. As time goes on I get closer to my goal. You will too.

Thanks for the practical tips, those definitely are appreciated. I'm going to get a binder as soon as I can afford one. As a single mom of two young kids, I have to really plan and save for any purchase, even one as relatively small as just a binder. As for the clothes, that's similar to what I did with my girly office clothes when I came out as gay. Now I only wear my boy-ish (but actually girl clothes) clothes. And as I'm able to slowly add some actual guys' clothes to my wardrobe as I'm able to afford, I'll probably shuffle off the girl clothes in a similar manner.

As for the mannerisms, I couldn't agree more. I've heard/read people say "you don't need to change your mannerisms to male ones, just be who you are" but for me, my feminine mannerisms are NOT who I am. They were things I picked up through my social conditioning and have never felt completely natural to me, but now they're almost automatic. Changing them won't be changing myself, except to change more towards who I feel that I really am. It'll be an opportunity to just let myself be the way I've always stopped myself from being.

I do actually have a therapist. I've been seeing her almost every week for three years (since a month before I came out as gay). I primarily see her due to my history of abuse (by my step-dad while I was growing up), but I think I'm probably ready to address this issue with her now too. Now that I've admitted to myself what I feel, I think I'll be able to explain it to her.

Quote from: Teknoir on July 12, 2009, 09:07:36 PM
Do what feels right, when it feels right. If you aren't comfortable going out in men's clothes yet, but you want to "try it out", there is always the option of doing it in the privacy of your own home until you feel ready. And never sweat a haircut - the stuff grows back! 

The early stages of discovery and expression are some of the most nerve wracking, but they are also some of the most liberating, affirming and rewarding.

Yeah, I've already started experimenting with binding, packing, and STP (the first time was such a surreal and euphoric experience. Like "omg, *finally* I'm peeing standing up, after 30 years of doing it wrong!". It's sure gonna take some practice tho... lol) in the privacy of my home once the kids are in bed. It feels a little odd to be secretive about it, almost like I'm ashamed of it (which I'm not, just not ready to be open about all of it), but I know that I have to start with baby steps. Full time is still a LONG way off for me I think.

And I totally appreciate your comment about how nerve-wracking and yet rewarding this stage is, you're absolutely right.


Wow, again I've written a veritable tome of my personal life out here. Don't mind the babbling, I think I've got mental diarrhea.

And sorry too, to those I didn't respond to directly. I appreciate your responses just as much, but had nothing more to add to what you said that wouldn't be "gilding the lily".

QuoteThe first time that happened, I asked my mom if I could have a plastic penis for Christmas. I didn't even know if such a product existed, but I felt sure that it must, because "how else was I going to pee standing up?!?!" lol. Poor mom, what she must've thought about that question coming from a 5 year-old...

haha that's hilarious. 

People change their screen names all the time. Go ahead and try out your name, then change it, change it back. It's good.

Quote from: Nero on July 12, 2009, 11:12:49 PM
haha that's hilarious. 

People change their screen names all the time. Go ahead and try out your name, then change it, change it back. It's good.

Yeah, it's hilarious now, but at the time it was just frustrating. My mom did the normal "mom" thing and was like "well, I don't think that's a good idea honey, why don't you ask Santa for a Barbie" and I remember feeling like "but, but..." lol

As for the name, I think I'm gonna take the plunge and go with Braedon. I've always totally loved that name, and after just getting off the phone with my girlfriend, she thinks it suits me, so that's a good sign.

Hey there, and welcome!

Quote from: Braedon (formerly NES_junkie) on July 12, 2009, 10:42:36 PM

As for the mannerisms, I couldn't agree more. I've heard/read people say "you don't need to change your mannerisms to male ones, just be who you are" but for me, my feminine mannerisms are NOT who I am. They were things I picked up through my social conditioning and have never felt completely natural to me, but now they're almost automatic. Changing them won't be changing myself, except to change more towards who I feel that I really am. It'll be an opportunity to just let myself be the way I've always stopped myself from being.

Transition is a funny thing... everyone's is unique! For me, the opposite has been true. Ever since I can remember I've been sooo butch in my mannerisms and behaviors. I think I subconsciously over did it in an attempt to assert my masculine identity. But, as soon as I got on hormones and started to really see myself for the first time, without doubt or reservation, as male it seemed that all of that slipped away. I'm now more feminine than I've ever been, lol  . (of course being seen as gay isn't an issue for me seeing as how I am.)

Quote from: Braedon (formerly NES_junkie) on July 12, 2009, 03:43:59 PM

What's hard for me to reconcile with that knowledge though, is that on the outside, I'm fairly unmasculine. I wouldn't say I'm necessarily "feminine", I don't dress or act all that girly, etc., but I feel really self-conscious that I don't look masculine enough to be taken seriously as a transguy. It seems like most (if not all?) FtMs have just always been more than just tomboyish or butchy, and that their biggest hurdle to transitioning was the genetic challenge of female parts, etc, not the "coming to terms with their maleness" part...

I held the same fear for years, though for different reasons. As cheesy and cliche as it sounds, when it comes down to it, you're the only one who needs to take you seriously. Screw everyone else's opinions. If societal convention was that important to you, being a ->-bleeped-<- was your first mistake  . Male and masculine (while commonly associated) aren't the same thing.

Quote from: Randy on July 13, 2009, 12:17:10 AM
If societal convention was that important to you, being a ->-bleeped-<- was your first mistake 

Dude, I lol'd at that so hard.

Also, thanks for the welcome. And I think you're right, that I need to accept that I'm the only one who needs to take me seriously. When you put it that way, it makes a lot of sense.



Good night everyone, I'll be back to ask a million other long-winded questions tomorrow! lol

Quote from: Braedon (formerly NES_junkie) on July 12, 2009, 10:42:36 PM
As for the mannerisms, I couldn't agree more. I've heard/read people say "you don't need to change your mannerisms to male ones, just be who you are" but for me, my feminine mannerisms are NOT who I am. They were things I picked up through my social conditioning and have never felt completely natural to me, but now they're almost automatic. Changing them won't be changing myself, except to change more towards who I feel that I really am. It'll be an opportunity to just let myself be the way I've always stopped myself from being.

I know what you mean. For me I had to mentally make and force myself to use feminine mannerisms. They just don't come naturally to me at all. Even though my female mannerisms were few and half-assed I did try. My biggest thing is I didn't want to be seen as a butch lesbian. Since I'm not I don't want to be seen as that because I can't identify. I just want to be seen as a straight male, which is impossible in a female looking shell.

BTW I'm married to a man now as well (no children though). I came out to him about everything a week ago. It has been very hard since. But, I'm sure we'll get through it and I hope we can remain friends.

I was playing my NES yesterday.  Still a totally sick system if I say so myself.

Yes, I am aware I probably should have responded to the rest of the post more-so than your SNs reference to a beloved classic video game system, but I just love nintendo.