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Stealth hostility toward those who are out or still transitioning

Started by ceili, September 21, 2009, 08:03:57 AM

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The None Blonde

I'm afraid I will answer....

What Does one wish to achive from therpay? one wishes resolution to the issue that brought one to that situation. Frankly, I wouldnt give a monkeys if they were trans or not if they helped me... isnt that a tad hypocritical on your part?

Pot... kettle?
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xsocialworker

Quote from: The None Blonde on October 26, 2009, 07:04:23 AM
I'm afraid I will answer....

What Does one wish to achive from therpay? one wishes resolution to the issue that brought one to that situation. Frankly, I wouldnt give a monkeys if they were trans or not if they helped me... isnt that a tad hypocritical on your part?


The only response I have for this post is to suggest spelling lessons








Pot... kettle?
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The None Blonde

That's extremely mature xSocialworker.... I made one or two errors, that I will now apologise for. (I got Acyrlic nails for my birthday.... bitch to type with at the speed I do.)

Please defer from attacking the poster, and deal with my comments.

I suggested your post was hypocritical. The phrasing of that post... well, I could have expected it from John or Jane trans ignorant-doe.

Why do you feel this way? I'm genuinely curious why someone who professes to help trans people feels such a way about those that dont want to have it known, yet still help.

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xsocialworker

OK-------one more time.

1) Yes it is possible to help transpeople without disclosing one is also trans. Maybe in a private practice or doing something that doesn't require intense interaction like conducting a class on "Safer Sex" in a homeless shelter that might include transpeople.

2) Historically, programs that focus on helping any minority community have tried to obtain staff from that community. The transgender community is just one. The leaders of the NAACP did include Caucasians, but it was and is primarily African-American. Haddassah is Jewish. The head on the HRC is "out". The head of the NCTE is "out". I could refer you to multiple books on the subject or put you in contact with some of these programs, many government funded and you could explore it in depth. If you live in the New York area, the Gay and Lesbian Center would be a good start. If you are in or around Houston, DC, SF, or any big city I could find you someone to talk to.

3) Maybe you don't need it, but research shows that having openly transpeople on a staff can attract new transgender clients. Could you imagine a women's shelter with an all male staff?
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Dana Lane

Wow, what a huge discussion.

My take on this is that everyone one of us should be able to live our life the way we want to. If that is stealth, half stealth, no stealth, whatever. We should all respect each other's decisions. Some can be activists and some not. Just like every other person on the planet. Just because were have Gender issues doesn't mean we should be required to be an activist.

hugs to everyone
============
Former TS Separatist who feels deep regret
http://www.transadvocate.com/category/dana-taylor
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xsocialworker

I was hired in 2002 to work for a Federally funded program because I am a social worker and "out" to the professional community. The program was funded by SAMHSA and the purpose was to attract lower income transpeople to this program. We offered free counseling,HIV/AIDS testing, and the first transfriendly homeless shelter and recovery center between Richmond and Miami. I did training for the State on working with transpeople in the court and prison system. I never felt that I was a token anything and if I was, so what. Jackie Robinson could be called a token and was by his detractors ( not to compare what he went through to what I did which was virtually nothing.)

Post Merge: October 27, 2009, 05:58:16 AM

I got paid to be "out" in the social work community. I never said everybody should be "out".

Post Merge: October 27, 2009, 07:03:23 AM

Just for the record, I try very hard to be "passable" in the rest of my life. Also, research has shown that "out" transgender professionals have a better chance of reaching an audience if they don't create cognitive dissonance. Rosalyn Blumenstein discusses this in her book "Branded T". She was the director at the Gay and Lesbian Center in NYC before moving to LA.
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Miniar

I agree!
Everyone should make their own choices.

I can understand why a person would choose stealth, and the only thing I've ever said about their choices is "I wouldn't make them". Which is perfectly reasonable. I'm not you, I will never make all the same choices as you.

In fact, most non-stealth/out people I've seen have made the choice to express their reasons why they are out, and state that they couldn't make the same choices as those that are stealth.
So Far, I've never seen an out person say that stealth persons are "wrong" or sit and wonder why stealth people would make that choice in a derogatory fashion. I've seen them say "I couldn't do that because it would feel like X to me" where X is any set of words that imply deception or hiding or whatnot.
This is not the same thing as "stealth = X", it is a voicing of what it would feel like to the person that is choosing not to be stealth. There's a Vast difference between the two.

In return, I've seen, repeated posts where stealth folk sit and wonder about out folk with phrases like "they're all" and "they want" and "they think".
"I think/feel/want" is out the question, replaced with "they".
And that's usually heavily laden with insults of characters or integrity or even sanity of the out person.

I'm not saying that all stealth people do X and all out people do Y. I'm saying that this is what I've seen so far.
_

Secondly.
On the topic of advocating equal rights and so on and so forth.
If you don't want to be a public figure who fights for the rights of something you know, then don't.

Don't fool yourself. You'll never be as powerful a figure in support of a minority as "ordinary, average person off the street" as "out and proud member of the minority".
Everyone can help, but not everyone can stand up and go "look, when you see me you see a woman, but.. it wasn't always so".
People have a hard time accepting something they don't "know" and without out post-transition people, people don't "know" how normal post-transition folk are.

But that's not your problem.
If you don't want to be that out person, that's your choice and we'll respect that choice.

The problem comes in when you misrepresent your choice, and even worse, misrepresent other people's choices.
Everyone can help, but a stealthed post-transition woman won't be able to help more than your average cisgendered woman.
And to suggest that those that are out are out for anything other than the reasons they give is rude.



"Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell" - Nietzsche
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The None Blonde

Excelent sentiments Miniar.... I totally agree with that synopsis.

Quote from: xsocialworker on October 27, 2009, 06:36:58 AM
OK-------one more time.

1) Yes it is possible to help transpeople without disclosing one is also trans. Maybe in a private practice or doing something that doesn't require intense interaction like conducting a class on "Safer Sex" in a homeless shelter that might include transpeople.

2) Historically, programs that focus on helping any minority community have tried to obtain staff from that community. The transgender community is just one. The leaders of the NAACP did include Caucasians, but it was and is primarily African-American. Haddassah is Jewish. The head on the HRC is "out". The head of the NCTE is "out". I could refer you to multiple books on the subject or put you in contact with some of these programs, many government funded and you could explore it in depth. If you live in the New York area, the Gay and Lesbian Center would be a good start. If you are in or around Houston, DC, SF, or any big city I could find you someone to talk to.

3) Maybe you don't need it, but research shows that having openly transpeople on a staff can attract new transgender clients. Could you imagine a women's shelter with an all male staff?
I'm not in america.

And My point was in reference to your comment on 'being stealth and helping someone trans in a therapy setting, (IE, the therapist is transsexual, but stealth,) helping a transgender individual, is unethical.

So far, you've politically told us everything about how amazing you are... how out you are, and all about how being out is great. Fine, thats cool... I'm glad you work hard at this... someone needs to. My question is WHY is it unethical, to be trans, not tell someone trans you're trans, and help them?

Are non trans people not allowed to help trans people? I didn't say exlusively non trans, but you make a distinction... Can you reply to that?

Overall i think this is coasting merrily off topic.  The original post was that apparently stealth people are hostile towards those that are out. Stealth people and others feel out people are hostile towards them. Well, we all seem to be hostile, or the other side claims we are....

Why don't we try something odd, like.... live and let live?
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Janet_Girl

QuoteWhy don't we try something odd, like.... live and let live?

My point exactly. If you are stealth, I am happy for you.  That is your choice. 
If you are not stealth, I am happy for you. Thai is your choice.

I am not stealth for a number of reason.  Call them excuse if you wish.  The only thing I don't like is the 'Holier than Thou' attitude each side seems to have.  We are family here and ...

Let's Live and Let Live.


Janet
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The None Blonde

To be honest, I don't really care how anyone else lives thier life, as long as i can live mine the way I want...

husband

2 kids

labrador

the Rangerover

the house in the country....


The rest.... well, I'll make it up as I go along.

Life is too short to tell everyone else how to live thiers, your own is getting cold!

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xsocialworker

None Blonde is right. I am amazing . That is incredibly perceptive.  Other than that, her hostility is typical of a teen-ager crying for attention. How lucky to be TS, young, blonde, and not in America
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The None Blonde

Heh, I thought 'the none blonde' would be a give away there...

Hostile? TS = lucky? A lapse in your incredible judgement otherwise honey.

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Julie Marie

Okay kids, take it outside...
When you judge others, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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xsocialworker

This has ceased to be a discussion about ideas and is about name calling. As I am retired and TNB is supposedly in another country, continuing this debate is a useless waste of time and I'm done. If TNB thinks I am full of it, then so be it. Just like the Reublicans in the health care debate, TNB has not presented any concrete plan on how to run an outreach program to any minority without anyone on staff identifying with the group.
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Sarah Louise

Ok, I guess Julie's post about taking it outside wasn't clear enough.

Topic locked for 24 hours.

Sarah L.
Nameless here for evermore!;  Merely this, and nothing more;
Tis the wind and nothing more!;  Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore!!"
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