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Are the side effects of injecting really that bad?...

Started by Carson, December 07, 2009, 06:13:00 AM

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YoungSoulRebel

Quote from: Radar on December 08, 2009, 10:04:37 AMPumping does work. Trust me on this. ;)

I'll trust you on this when you can produce conclusive data; until then, I'll trust that you believe it "works", but people believe in a lot of goofiness that doesn't actually work -- I once saw a woman on a talk show who swore up and down that talking to her breasts made them grow, just as an example of some of this goofiness.

What we need more of is science.
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notyouraverageguy

Quote from: Carson on December 08, 2009, 07:01:54 AM

Well I don't want to blame it on the fact that she is MtF but... she was really biased which I can understand as a person being MtF and being disgusted by the changes that T gives people but as a doctor?... I wasn't very enthused. She was talking about how I'm going to smell bad.To which I responded, "No I won't smell bad, I'll smell different, providing I shower every day." and she said hair loss, and "gross hair all over my face". And I just said that those all sound great to me. I think she was mainly talking about the T level fluctuation and the acne but I don't think that they are as serious as she was saying they were. Especially because she put me on weekly shots. She also talked about heart problems and bone problems but she had already told me to start taking calcium and vitamin D for those because of my family history.

Sounds like a biased doctor to me, trying to convince you oherwise and make you think you don't really want it. Which sucks, because you need a doctor that wants what you want and looks for the best and safest possibilites for you.
Gender expression is NOT gender identity.

Defective Catastrophe.
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YoungSoulRebel

Quote from: Kvall on December 08, 2009, 06:39:13 PM
YoungSoulRebel -- A lot of metoidioplasty surgeons recommend pumping prior to surgery. Long-term pumping does produce permanent results because it stretches the genital tissues; not as big as the temporary growth, of course, but significant growth in any case. There is even cis female porn dedicated to this. And yes, doing it too much or too forcefully will do more harm than good.

Cite your source on that?  If you have something that actually counters what I've cited (with science!), I may just reconsider, but so far all of you people insisting that penis pumps "really really work" have yet to support your claims with more than hear-say and "personal anecdotes" which, as I've explained, are unreliable.

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YoungSoulRebel

Quote from: Kvall on December 08, 2009, 08:05:52 PMYes, it is true that there aren't any studies (that I know of), but the lack of them means that we should probably listen to those doctors who have noticed a difference in post-op result dependent on pumping or not pumping. Anecdote adds to that in lieu of studies.

No, there are studies:
http://www.urotoday.com/browse_categories/erectile_dysfunction/pump_fails_to_increase_penis_size.html
"The vacuum device does not seem to be a useful method for penile elongation," Dr. Hosseini's team concludes, "but it provides psychological satisfaction for some men."  (This makes it very clear that while results were physically negligible, those who took part in the study believed their penises gained significant growth.  This is proof that anecdotes cannot be trusted!)


http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/penis/MC00026
Marketers offer many different types of nonsurgical penis-enlargement treatments, and often promote them with serious-looking advertisements that include endorsements from "scientific" researchers. But if you look and read closely, you'll see that claims of safety and effectiveness aren't proven. No reputable scientific research endorses or supports any type of nonsurgical penis enlargement. So, marketers rely on testimonials, skewed data and before-and-after photos that often aren't authentic.


Testimonials aren't science.  Most meta- surgeons also do not appear to recommend it.  Dr. A. Neal Wilson suggested I "shower as normal" with my nipple grafts, but that only caused them to fall off (I found out at the ER that getting skin grafts wet is the worst thing one could do) -- so yeah, you were able to find two surgeons who don't read the studies, whoop-itty-doo; "it's not hard to find surgeons who recommend complete nonsense if only because it's not hard to find surgeons who think they know everything" (quote goes to my physician, Dr. Pamela Rockwell, DO).

I mean, let's also ignore the fact that in cis- men, penis growth continues throughout puberty (which actually lasts several years) and often enough into one's early twenties -- often enough, an addition inch in length and half- or three-quarters-inch in girth can be gained by cis- men in the years between ages sixteen through twenty-two.  There is thus no concrete reason to believe that any actual growth is related to anything more than the basic effects of HRT -- much less that any perceived growth is, well, actual (much less significant).

But as I said previously, if you think it's money well-spent, feel free to spend it.  Far be it from me to tell one what one should and should not do with one's bank account.  I just don't believe it's cool to fill other people's heads with pipe dreams that doing X will give them specific results, especially when there's not a shred of science to support it.  Anecdotes cannot be trusted.  The lack of studies on FTM men in general only suggests, at best, a correlation between using a penis pump and added length -- but correlation does NOT equal causation, and the evidence that does exist suggest no genuine cause/effect relationship.

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Radar

Quote from: YoungSoulRebel on December 08, 2009, 02:47:36 PM
I'll trust you on this when you can produce conclusive data; until then, I'll trust that you believe it "works", but people believe in a lot of goofiness that doesn't actually work
So... because you don't believe it works it doesn't work? Hmm. I guess my eyes and measurements are wrong. You can believe it or not, I don't care.

Post Merge: December 09, 2009, 07:58:40 AM

Quote from: Kvall on December 08, 2009, 06:39:13 PMYoungSoulRebel -- A lot of metoidioplasty surgeons recommend pumping prior to surgery. Long-term pumping does produce permanent results because it stretches the genital tissues; not as big as the temporary growth, of course, but significant growth in any case. There is even cis female porn dedicated to this. And yes, doing it too much or too forcefully will do more harm than good.
He refuses to believe it can be possible so no use arguing. It is true results vary and it may or may not work. There are no guaranties... but that's true with everything in life.
"In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?
It is what it is—and whatever.
Time is still the infinite jest."
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JonasCarminis

Quote from: YoungSoulRebel on December 08, 2009, 07:50:41 AM
I'm also highly suspect of the idea that rubbing androgel on one's junk actually makes a significant difference in growth from either a) applying anywhere else or, b) injections (or injections alone, apparently)
umm... im not sure what to say about this except youre just plain wrong.  you throw big words at the simple villagers, but theyre all smart enough to know when youre bull->-bleeped-<-ting.  you remind me of mister.  but he was usually right when he shoved "information" in peoples faces.

besides, i put hand sanitizer on my junk because i heard that it burned and i didnt believe it because it doesnt hurt your hands.  well guess what... I THOUGHT IT WAS ON FIRE AND I ALMOST CRIED.  know what else?  ANDROGEL IS ALCOHOL BASED.  yea, if anyone was stupid enough to put androgel on their junk... well... the burn is enough punishment.

i use T CREAM on my willie.  when used there, more of it converts to DHT.  DHT has been proven to help with testicle growth (i know we dont have those, but it works on the balls with bio guys), penis growth, body hair growth, and facial hair growth.  as well as contributing to male pattern baldness if you are predisposed to it.

and i know youre going to throw a fit because im not citing sources, but i got this information (as well as info on growth hormones, but thats a different thread) from the databases at the University of Missouri which i no longer have access to.  i do however have pictoral proof of my growth.  its in the pre-surgery folder on the FTM surgery yahoo group.
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Radar

Quote from: Josh on December 09, 2009, 09:54:30 AMyou remind me of mister.  but he was usually right when he shoved "information" in peoples faces.
Ironically he's the one I learned pumping about since he does/did pump with great results. Of course he was also on HGH. He helped me out with pumping info too.
"In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?
It is what it is—and whatever.
Time is still the infinite jest."
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Carson

Quote from: Radar on December 09, 2009, 10:39:46 AM
Ironically he's the one I learned pumping about since he does/did pump with great results. Of course he was also on HGH. He helped me out with pumping info too.

I didn't know that he was on HGH but didn't he get to like a bit over 4 inches?
Call me a cheat but I make my own fate.

http://www.formspring.me/carson1234
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Radar

Quote from: Carson on December 09, 2009, 11:38:25 AMI didn't know that he was on HGH but didn't he get to like a bit over 4 inches?
IIRC he said he's just under the normal size for bio-males, but I don't think he gave an actual measurement.
"In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?
It is what it is—and whatever.
Time is still the infinite jest."
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YoungSoulRebel

Quote from: Radar on December 09, 2009, 07:55:52 AM
So... because you don't believe it works it doesn't work? Hmm. I guess my eyes and measurements are wrong. You can believe it or not, I don't care.

If you can produce some genuine conclusive data that says it works, I'll believe it.  Our eyes often deceive us.


Quote from: Radar on December 09, 2009, 07:55:52 AMHe refuses to believe it can be possible so no use arguing. It is true results vary and it may or may not work. There are no guaranties... but that's true with everything in life.

Well, if my water bill is paid up, there's a guarantee that if I go to the tap and turn it, then water will come out.  If I get up from this chair and walk to the bathroom, there's a guarantee that I'd've travelled thiry feet in distance.  Point being: there are guarantees in life, denying that there are is not a valid means of "proving" your argument.


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Renate

Um, even though penises and clitorises are isomorphic, there are differences.
That pumping does not effectively work on penises does not prove anything in regard to clitorises.
Some natal women have pumped their clitorises and achieved some results.
You don't have to be too creative in a search to find documentation of this on the internet.
The same applies to nipples.
Caveat: Pumping your toes will not lengthen them.
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YoungSoulRebel

Quote from: Renate on December 09, 2009, 05:19:26 PM
Um, even though penises and clitorises are isomorphic, there are differences.
That pumping does not effectively work on penises does not prove anything in regard to clitorises.
Some natal women have pumped their clitorises and achieved some results.
You don't have to be too creative in a search to find documentation of this on the internet.
The same applies to nipples.
Caveat: Pumping your toes will not lengthen them.

Women in the body building community also get an enlarged clitoris from steroid use.

I'm just saying I don't believe that combining the two will produce "real ultimate power".  There are too many variables and inconclusive correlations.  But whatever, people are obviously going to do what they want, anyway.

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Radar

Quote from: YoungSoulRebel on December 09, 2009, 05:13:21 PMIf you can produce some genuine conclusive data that says it works, I'll believe it.  Our eyes often deceive us.

Eyes are deceiving, but last I knew centimetres and inches were pretty acurate. Now, if you want me to post a photo you're out of luck. Ain't gonna happen just to prove to you something. No, you won't get "real ultimate power" or a huge dick. I'm just saying it does make a difference for some people. You don't believe based on articles, I believe it's possible through experience. I believe we're finished here. This has already been thread jacked from the OP. I say we get back on track.

BTW- Science proclaims that the bumblebee shouldn't be able to fly- but it does. There are many things that do exist that science hasn't been able to explain yet. If you live your life on strictly scientific evidence for the existence of anything you will live a discouraging life.
"In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?
It is what it is—and whatever.
Time is still the infinite jest."
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JonasCarminis

Quote from: YoungSoulRebel on December 09, 2009, 05:13:21 PM
Well, if my water bill is paid up, there's a guarantee that if I go to the tap and turn it, then water will come out.

what if theres a broken pipe just down the block?  or your payment was lost in the mail?  if the electricity is out and you have an electric pump, your faucet wont run water.  good try though. :)

Quote from: YoungSoulRebel on December 09, 2009, 05:13:21 PM
If I get up from this chair and walk to the bathroom, there's a guarantee that I'd've travelled thiry feet in distance.

what if youre at your neighbors house and their bathroom is 22 feet from the chair you used?  or maybe once again you had a problem with your running water and had to go somewhere else to use the toilet?  that one was better than the last example, but no cigar yet.
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Luc

Okay, as much as I'd love to jump in on this all-out rumble, I'll refrain for the moment....

I've noticed no adverse effects from injecting T, apart from bruising and personal apprehension about doing injections. Dude's doctor is a little batty and going from adverse personal experience, if you ask me.

SD
"If you want to criticize my methods, fine. But you can keep your snide remarks to yourself, and while you're at it, stop criticizing my methods!"

Check out my blog at http://hormonaldivide.blogspot.com
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