Wow I just don't get all of this anti-self defense nonsense. "A pistol or taser would likely not help." Then why do police and military worldwide carry these? Unlike civilian citizens, police and military deliberately put themselves in harm's away making the risk even higher for them. It is sad that such helplessness is in so many people's minds and I believe a lot of it is driven by the media and movie industry. We all see over and over again the infamous woman who keeps falling down, can't get up, and can't seem to do anything to resist her attacker in films.

That's TV. Get real. The first step to self defense is being aware of your surroundings. So many of these scenarios that everyone keeps talking about where weapons wouldn't help are always describing situations in which the woman is being snuck up on by the rapist. Google "Condition Yellow." There is a lot more to self preservation than just carrying something. Believe it or not, if you choose not to be helpless, you likely won't be. In fact, a potential criminal is likely to see that and automatically choose another target without you even knowing you were momentarily considered.

It is sad that so many women and transwomen feel so disempowered about their own self-preservation. Personal alarms and pepper spray can be great tools but are proven to be less effective against a violent attacker than tasers or firearms which immediately begin stopping them. I often carry weapons but I sometimes don't yet I don't always feel less safe when I'm unarmed because I am always in Condition Yellow when in a public place. Google these terms. Most people want to be in Condition White and feel that Condition Yellow is somewhat paranoid. Everybody likes to feel "comfortable." Having strict awareness of your surroundings at all times requires more energy. Ultimately, it is what you want out of life. If you want to put your life into the hands of others to watch out for you which is basically like rolling dice, then Condition White. If you want to stand up as a woman and say "I will not be a victim," and take actions accordingly similar to playing chess, Condition Yellow. Something as simple as making a mental note of all exits to a building upon entering could save your life yet very few people do this. Enough said.

Quote from: elementalincognitus on February 16, 2010, 01:01:36 AM
it will cause hearing damage if you dont cover your ears, so the potential rapist will need to choose between his ears or you!

And your ears. I don't know, a sound grenade just doesn't appeal to me. Why would a taser be less useful than a "deafening personal alarm?"

Britney, If that works for you, then go for it. I am not trained in using guns, nor do I ever want to be. I don't like guns, and for me to be remotely useful with it, I would need to actually figure out how one works.

For police officers -- who generally go into those nasty places trained, armed, and with radio backup, and are still much more likely than I am to be shot -- and for people who are very comfortable with the weapon of their choice, that's fine. It's just that people who aren't familiar or comfortable with guns, like me, probably won't get much if any benefit.

My real life way of avoiding violence involves not being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You can bet I'm aware of my surroundings after dark or in unfamiliar or potentially sketchy areas. I'm good at keeping things "yellow" and avoiding any potential increase in the threat. I'm playing an odds game: The overwhelming likelihood is that I won't ever be the victim of a violent crime. I see many people who consume their lives with worries over things very unlikely to pass, and I don't want to do that.

And as far as the topic of this thread goes, trans women are far more likely to be attacked, raped, and murdered by people they already knew, in places they felt safe, than by some "potential criminal" on the prowl for victims.

I'm not saying don't arm yourself. I am saying be aware of your surroundings and be careful with whom you place your trust. And I am saying that if you choose to arm yourself, you need to put work into making sure you know how to use your weapon.

I think the advice to get a surplus flash bang grenade is kind of awesome. Pull the pin, close your eyes, cover your ears, and hope it works like in a Tom Clancy novel.

police and law enforcement dont go into dangerous situations causally strolling along in street clothes and possibly a few drinks in.  they go in sober, with backup, and guns/tasers drawn.  sure, if you could walk around in any potentially dangerous situation with your taser or pistol drawn and ready, then yes, they would be very useful. 

the other problem with them is that they can be both turned off, and turned against you.  if you dont neutralize your attacker before he gets to you, then youve just given him a weapon if he didnt have one already.  even if he doesnt turn it on you, after he pulls it away from you, its absolutely useless. 

thats why a sound grenade is tactically the best thing you can have.. even if its taken from you, it cant be turned off.  it will continue to draw attention to your situation at a deafening level- and even if your attacker tries to disable it, thats time hes not focusing on you.  do you think that someone would really risk taking the time to rape you with a 130db siren going off? and, if its clear on the labelling that there is no way to turn it off, then theres no point in threatening you to turn it off.  he can either commit a murder with that siren drawing people and police to it, or get away from you as fast as possible.  its instantly makes the situation very public, and the encounter cannot be made private again by disabling it. 

Quote from: Miniar on February 02, 2010, 07:51:12 AM
I don't see rape as something to joke about.

I absolutely agree, I don't mean this in a boastful way, but I consider myself an attractive woman, I get hit on and chatted up by guys all the time, I have met some weirdos, had some lucky escapes, its not nice when you find yourself in a situation with a guy who doesn't know how to treat a woman, sometimes leading to rape.
I love being a woman, but its totally different to being a guy when it comes to rape, I just try and be safe and stay safe.
p

Quote from: elementalincognitus on February 16, 2010, 11:01:33 AM. . .

I guess you're right, I just figured since the most commonly stated reason seems to be "you won't have time to pull it out" and that you'd have to pull out an alarm anyway that it didn't make much of a difference.

How about just using a real grenade; rape this you son of a bitch, see you in hell in about 4 seconds. I'll be the one with all the demons around me listening enviously to my stories...come say hi.

Anyway I once saw a siren necklace and bracelet that looked nice...maybe that could be practical.

Quote from: elementalincognitus on February 16, 2010, 11:01:33 AM
the other problem with them is that they can be both turned off, and turned against you.

That's the reason for "situational awareness", because if you're in "condition white" the criminal has already won, possession of a PDW (personal defense weapon) or otherwise. (and by that I don't just mean a firearm, if it means stopping rape, gouging their eyeballs out will work wonders)

A loud alarm may be quite tactical and I'm not knocking it. However, the argument that you may not have time to pull a weapon would equally apply to pulling an alarm. I don't believe that there is a one size fits all approach to personal defense. Different tools have different pros and cons as do different tactics. Some techniques work better for some situations than others. If in a crowded area where say someone tries to grab your purse, setting off an alarm may cause them to run away. If however the person is under the influence of a drug and is therefore immune to the loud sound and feels invincible, you will have to try something else.

Pepper spray is something I generally recommend to people who aren't real familiar with self-defense tools who want to protect themselves. What makes it great is that it is relatively inexpensive and there are generally less restrictions on it in most jurisdictions than there are on deadly weapons. The canisters can quickly create a distance barrier between you and even multiple assailants. I have actually used this in self-defense and I was quite surprised at how it worked as the attacker was 10 feet away and I barely discharged it. Unlike guns and tasers, you don't have to be as direct with the hit so in a panic even if you spray it slightly off course it will likely spread out and get in the attacker's eyes to a good enough degree to give you time to create more distance.

Again, different things work for different situations. Sometimes it is not always people you have to protect against but dangerous animals. People can be killed by a vicious or rabid dog and a gun would be very handy in such case.

Regardless, whether you are armed to the teeth or have nothing at all, the key is being aware of your surroundings and not needlessly taking chances. If a robber sees two women, one on each side of a street where one woman is walking tall and composed and is clearly aware of her presence and displays mannerisms that she is clearly not afraid whereas the other woman is blissfully unaware with her hands full and a phone to her ear, who is the criminal likely to pick?

There are so many little things people can do to minimize risks. An example is how you carry your wallet and how you hold it when it is out. Another example is how you position yourself in a restaurant. Are you seated and facing in such a way that over 80% of the restaurant including the entrance is out of sight? Or, do you have a pretty solid (over 50%) view of the environment? We love to think these things are paranoia but if it is paranoid, why do animals do it? Virtually every form of life utilizes some form of situational awareness. The police are not always there to protect you and it is always possible that even emergency calls (i.e. 911) go unanswered, get disconnected, or require you to hold. Take personal responsibility.

this whole subject terrifies me, ive had an experience in my past and looking to my post operative life knowing someone could take me like that. im no really able to defend myself physically just how do you deal with rape?

i feel like crying thinking of it

Quote from: Ms Delgado on February 17, 2010, 02:47:24 AM
this whole subject terrifies me, ive had an experience in my past and looking to my post operative life knowing someone could take me like that. im no really able to defend myself physically just how do you deal with rape?

i feel like crying thinking of it

$You can learn to defend yourself. It doesn't take a lot of strength to break a nose and a broken nose comes with intense pain and loss of vision.

To deal with it, you just learn, eventually, that it's not your fault, there's nothing you can do about it now either. It's in the past and by allowing it to pain you any further you're just allowing yourself to continue being abused.
So, you let go, because you have to.

To think this thread is still going on and yet still going nowhere.

I obviously have my own opinions and side of the debate that I believe is right, but the only thing further I wish to contribute to this thread right now is...

I think everyone here should stop acting morally superior to each other, stop acting morally superior because you feel arming yourself is only making the situation worse or because you don't think a civilised society should condone that kind of behavior, and stop acting morally superior because you feel that not arming yourself is being irresponsible and carrying a victim mindset.

Different people have different opinions, and ultimately in either case, the person that most needs to take responsibility for their own safety is themselves. It's not really your business to try and help someone who doesn't want it.

We also commonly picture attackers lurking in the shadows somewhere who are strangers. What we forget is that statistically a lot of crime (violent and property) is done by someone you know. There is an old saying "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." I think that just as much as being aware of your surroundings is essential, it is also extremely important to consider the company you keep around. This is something people commonly forget. So it may pay to raise more eyebrows over questionable intentions of a recent friend than the occasional shady character in a store parking lot. Food for thought.

Why does everyone here seem to be assuming that only women get raped, and only men rape?

Quote from: PanoramaIsland on February 18, 2010, 12:42:26 AM
Why does everyone here seem to be assuming that only women get raped, and only men rape?

Because victim stereotyping is funner... x_x
(not to say that male sexual assault victims don't exist, rather they are often thrown under the rug because society doesn't want to address the issues of power/control that are the root of sexual crimes in the first place)

Quote from: PanoramaIsland on February 18, 2010, 12:42:26 AM
Why does everyone here seem to be assuming that only women get raped, and only men rape?

Same reason that when we speak about breast cancer we presume the victims to be female.

Because that IS the case 99% of the time and I think it's pretty pedantic to make a fuss over it. 

Quote from: Ashley4214 on February 18, 2010, 01:25:31 AM
Same reason that when we speak about breast cancer we presume the victims to be female.

Because that IS the case 99% of the time and I think it's pretty pedantic to make a fuss over it. 

No, it absolutely is not. Men DO get raped, it's not some tiny thing that barely ever happens, and women DO rape. It's just as big of a deal when the stereotypes are reversed - and the idea that "men almost never get raped, it's not a big deal anyway" prevents men from feeling comfortable coming out and saying it or getting help.

Quote from: PanoramaIsland on February 18, 2010, 01:30:44 AM
No, it absolutely is not. Men DO get raped, it's not some tiny thing that barely ever happens, and women DO rape. It's just as big of a deal when the stereotypes are reversed - and the idea that "men almost never get raped, it's not a big deal anyway" prevents men from feeling comfortable coming out and saying it or getting help.

The only statistics that exist indicate that women are rapists and men are raped between 1 and 10 percent of the time. However much under reporting there may be, I think it's just silly to argue that a male isn't the perpetrator and a female isn't the victim at least a majority of the time.

You can't rule everything with such an incessant degree of political correctness.

You asked why the assumption was being made, my argument is that it's because it is by a long way the most common variation of the crime, and I stand by that.

Even if you assumed a completely equivalent rate of rape tendencies between men and women (which I think is silly too), just the fact that men are on average physically stronger than women would be enough in itself to swing the statistics into a female predominance. And that's not even considering the other physical differences between men and women which all other things being equal would make men more likely to succeed at commiting the crime (and as such probably more likely to attempt it too).

Lets play nice kids, this is suppose to be a discussion, not to accuse other posters of thinking the "wrong" way.